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Do you experience this "living in own world"-tendency of autism?
Always. 9%  9%  [ 7 ]
Almost always. 43%  43%  [ 32 ]
Often. 17%  17%  [ 13 ]
Sometimes. 21%  21%  [ 16 ]
Rarely. 5%  5%  [ 4 ]
Almost never. 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
Never. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 75

goldfish21
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08 Apr 2013, 5:34 am

qawer wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
qawer wrote:
It's a matter of how one perceives the world:

"My life is a part of the world" - not being fully present (autistic view - the world is in center, not you)

"The world is a part of my life" - being present (non-autistic view - you are in center, not the world)


"The world is part of my life" feels like such a wrong way to view everything. Absolutely horribly innately wrong.

I'm not the center of the universe. I'm not the most important thing. I'm just me, nothing more and nothing less.



I know what you mean. The "objective"/scientific/cosmic ("My life is a part of the world") truth is that your life simply is a part of the world. But if you view your place in the world that way you are basically trapped in your own world. It manifests autistic thinking. It is the ability to view the world without (much) relation to your own life.

On the other hand, viewing your life "subjectively" ("The world is a part of my life") is "animalistic" thinking. It is the ability to only see the world in relation to your own life. That is, being present.


As a result the key to acting/thinking less autistic is becoming more present in the world by viewing the world through your own life. You are the center of the world. Your life is the most important thing there is, because that's all you have! When you die, the objective truth is that life goes on, the subjetive is that it doesn't. One should believe in the "subjetive" truth to think/act less autistic.

The "subjective" truth is really the only truth you will ever experience yourself. One should completely forget about the "objetive" view of the world, because it ultimately ruins your life (to some degree).


While I agree that being present results in increased productivity, rational self interest, happiness & other benefits achieved by not indulging in autistic distractions, obsessions, special interests etc I still prefer how I defined being present vs. your attempt to elaborate here.

I do get what you're saying, I just disagree that it defines being present - especially since there are many experts that have defined what it means to be present & I've basically summarized their statements in my post on the first page.

If I were a research scientist obsessed with finding _____ I could very easily be completely involved in my work and ignoring my own life as a lesser priority and still be being present. If my objective was to hyperfocus on my research, and my thoughts are on my work, while I'm feeling satisfied with the progress I'm making on said work, and my actions are those of actually conducting research.. then I meet the requirements of my thoughts and emotions being aligned with what I'm doing in the moment and am in fact being present despite the fact that I may neglect myself & discount my life as an individual as being less important than the potential results of my work. Chances are I'd be pretty happy, too. So, being present isn't just about being self centred - it's about being centred, yes, but in the sense of balance and harmony, namely of thoughts, emotions, and current actions all being aligned with one another in the present moment.


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qawer
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08 Apr 2013, 5:46 am

goldfish21 wrote:
While I agree that being present results in increased productivity, rational self interest, happiness & other benefits achieved by not indulging in autistic distractions, obsessions, special interests etc I still prefer how I defined being present vs. your attempt to elaborate here.


I realise my description might indicate that you should be selfish in order to be present. It's really not what I mean to say. I agree with you. Being autistic myself I just have the need to be very "black-and-white" about the topic to be content with it/accept it. The objective/subjetive explanation is like sweet music to my ears. :wink:

goldfish21 wrote:
Chances are I'd be pretty happy, too. So, being present isn't just about being self centred - it's about being centred, yes, but in the sense of balance and harmony, namely of thoughts, emotions, and current actions all being aligned with one another in the present moment.


I agree with you. Not self-centred, but centred.

I'd say it is required to be quite present to experience happiness. And after all, isn't that what life is about.



goldfish21
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08 Apr 2013, 6:48 am

^ Agree w/ all of that & was glad to read it vs. expecting a debate on your black/white philosophical thinking again. :P


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qawer
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08 Apr 2013, 7:21 am

goldfish21 wrote:
^ Agree w/ all of that & was glad to read it vs. expecting a debate on your black/white philosophical thinking again. :P


Haha, can't let go of it completely...it's how I make sense of the world :D

It's kind of surprising that people are not more black-and-white in this forum btw.



Last edited by qawer on 08 Apr 2013, 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

qawer
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08 Apr 2013, 7:30 am

Looking at the poll now this "living-in-own-world"-syndrome is more of a reality to us than I thought previously. I think that's what causes the problems :roll:



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08 Apr 2013, 7:36 am

There's my own little world and then there's the outside world. It's the same to as being in my apartment or going outside. Most of the time I'm in my apartment. But sometimes I go outside into the real world. But outside isn't home. And after I've been outside for a while, I want to retreat back inside my apartment. The outside world is a place I visit, it's not where I live. It's not home.

The same applies to living in my own little world inside my head. Usually that's where I am. Sometimes I leave it for a while to visit the real world.

Funny thing is... the real world seems fake. It's like watching a TV show.



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08 Apr 2013, 8:12 am

You cant live in the past and you cant live in the future. You simply can think about the past or the future, while you are active in present. So in present you are deciding, that you want to think about something to come or something that has already happened. I spend lots of time "inside my head" but my head is part of the real world. ^^ So I am able to reduce disturbances to my thoughts by "fading" out, but someone standing at a train station, deciding not to force his thoughts on the noises of the incoming trains and instead to think about his travel in the meanwhile, is not fading himself out, he is simply in the present, thinking about something, while ignoring disturbances not linked to these thoughts. I do this to a part actively on purpose, to a part without purpose , to regain energy when I am tired and cant multitask any longer and handle all the input. So as example reading a book helps me a lot in surroundings I dont like like public trains, so I can read very intense, and my thoughts are concentrated on the book, creating visually the books surrounding and so on. The more intense I read a book, the less I hear sounds and noises, the less I smell things that disturbes me, the less I feel sensory issues .... But this does not mean I am not there. I am in the present, in a train, willingly reading a book by my own active desicion because it helps me feeling better, influencing with its helpg willingly and active the amount of input that I receive in this moments.

NT do so as well by instinct. 90% of the sensory information they get, is ignored intuitively by them. The more tired they are, the less they are able to work useful with the informations they receive, the more of this informations are ignored by their brain intuitevely, leaving them only the most important informations to think about actively, to protect them from overloads. Their system runs automatic and normally they dont need to care for it, while ours dont function properly, more or less. That means you as autist have to face your present problems, and like NTs brain intuitively do their work to protect them from overloads, you brains does the same. So when it feels that you are getting to tired and exhausted because it cant ignore the input you receive proper and intuitevely, it simply remembers other possibilities that are known to your brain, that will reduce your input. Instead of reducing or increasing the part of information you finally receive to work on active, it remembers you of the opportunities, where you have reduced sensory input. For one person, this may be the need to leave social gatherings, for others its reading books, for others its a certain computergame, for the next it is a certain pattern of pavement or wall ornament. For you its whatever you think about, when you think about it. ^^ But its no more about being here or being in the present, as it is for an NT whose brain just decided that it want to reduce the input information.

There is a major difference for me between "not being in present" or "deciding by will or intuitively to reduce social contacts, to reduce sensory input, to have some rest".

Quote:
On the other hand, viewing your life "subjectively" ("The world is a part of my life") is "animalistic" thinking. It is the ability to only see the world in relation to your own life. That is, being present.
Sorry, but I dont agree with this in any way. If the world was part of anyones life, it would stop existing, when this person stops to exist. So the world cant be a part of anyones life. Everything simplsy exits, as you do. And people that think, that their life is the mos important thing in the world, should seek a therapist because of narcisttic personality disorder in my oppinion.
Quote:
While I agree that being present results in increased productivity, rational self interest, happiness & other benefits achieved by not indulging in autistic distractions, obsessions, special interests etc I still prefer how I defined being present vs. your attempt to elaborate here.
No electronic nonsense, I can buy with the horror of increased productivity, can give me the happiness of having an oppurtinity of a free day that I can freely spend with "autistic distractions, obsessions, special interests"for hours and hours, so linking happiness to the first options, and denying that it can be part of the second options you mentioned to, is not correct in my oppinion. If your special interest is astrology and you need technical equip to go for it, then productivity will make you happier, because it gives you the chance to buy, what you need for your interest. While spending time on being productive, when you dont have any advantage from that, also brings you no happiness.

qawer wrote:
Looking at the poll now this "living-in-own-world"-syndrome is more of a reality to us than I thought previously. I think that's what causes the problems :roll:


It is not THE problem, it is a solution for your brain to handle your problems. The problem is that the part of the brain, responsible for processing every information our brain receives intuitevely, and deciding what informations it wants to send to your active part of the brain, isnt proper functioning. A proper brain part should give you in the end only the informations you need to handle your surroundings. The rest is ignored. As example: In a train it is important to you, to react to the speaker messages, to know when you want to leave the train, it is important to react to movement differences, so you dont fall from the seat. It is not important, that your seat neighbor is streaking your ellbow, every times he pages his newspaper, it is not important to know about the 365 different kind of smells that surrounds you, it is not important to hear every noise surrounding you because if you receive the informations of every noise unfiltered, it only ends with a great noiseball anyway... The more autistic you are, normally the less your brain is doing this proper and is instead sending you unimportant informations into your active brain part. Your active brain part gets tired because of working too much, and what you call "living in your own world" (If I could create my own world, I already would have done so and live in it.) is nothing more then the wish of your brain to focus on something absolutely specific, so that your inactive brain part stops sending your active brain part informations, it doesnt need. So while my inactive brain part is too dumb to recognize that I dont need the informations of one dozend talkings surrounding me, while I sit in a train surrounded by these people that are talking, it recognizes that I dont need informations of one dozend talkings surrounding me, while I fully concentrate about Hero Mightysword slaying a dragon or a specific geometric question. It simply doesnt fit in no way, so its simply ignored. Sure I could miss, because of that some information, that is important for me. But if as example a person sitting opposite to me tries to talk with me, and I am not respoding in the beginning, its not because of me not being here or not being in present, its because of me being her and being in present AND concentrating on my book I read in the here and present.

So this "living in your brain" as you call it is not THE problem as are not the crutches of someone that has a broken leg. Because he has a broken leg, which is the problem, he needs crutches. The crutches are only the most obvioulsy part, because you cant see the broken bone that is hidden beneath the skin. But if a person, that has a broken leg, would try to get rid of "his problem" the crouches, it would change nothing about his broken leg, and instead of walking complicated with the croutches, he would have to move much more complicated by jumping with one leg, tiring him much more then the crouches did.



qawer
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08 Apr 2013, 8:42 am

Schneekugel wrote:

It is not THE problem, it is a solution for your brain to handle your problems. The problem is that the part of the brain, responsible for processing every information our brain receives intuitevely, and deciding what informations it wants to send to your active part of the brain, isnt proper functioning.


I agree. The question is how to find a better solution to this defect than "living-in-your-own-world".

One should only focus on the important things and leave out the noise.

It does come down to seeing the world in "wholes" (the big picture) instead of details.



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08 Apr 2013, 9:07 am

Being in the moment doesn't seem like a great thing to me. If you're engaged in nothing but what is happening now and what you are feeling in the moment you're not putting things in perspective. I do this. I focus so much on an embarrassing situation that is happening in the present that I don't realize how small it will seem a year from now. I'm engaged in my current embarrassment and at the time it seems like a big thing. If I step out of the moment and think of the future I can realize that whatever I am feeling now will fade. It won't matter five years from now.

I'm not convinced that being in the present is necessarily a good thing.



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08 Apr 2013, 9:17 am

qawer wrote:
Looking at the poll now this "living-in-own-world"-syndrome is more of a reality to us than I thought previously. I think that's what causes the problems :roll:


Disassociation, which I think is what you are trying to describe, is well known to be associated with depression and/or social anxiety, both of which are sky-high on this board.

There are theories that Aspies do not view social interaction and hierarchies the same way as most (but not all) NTs, but the proof for those theories are lacking.

To me, it's too much of a jump to say that AS is caused by Aspies "not living in the world", which sounds very close to "Aspies should just fit in", or other degratory comments that are often directed towards Aspies.


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08 Apr 2013, 9:19 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
I'd like to choose "Other".

Me too.

Even if I'm in "my own little world" I'm still in the present moment, and I don't think being in my own world has ruined my life (to any degree).


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08 Apr 2013, 9:45 am

This is me! I have my own little world that I live in most times.

ThetaIn3D wrote:
I can snap myself out of it and do a good job of paying attention when I mean to, but I find myself absorbed in my own world a lot. I think I actually spend most of every day daydreaming, it's probably my biggest liability as a person.



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08 Apr 2013, 1:31 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
I was always under the impression that the inside of my head was part of the world.


8)


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09 Apr 2013, 12:02 am

I spend a lot of time in my own world, and I need it. I become very frustrated when I’m stopped from daydreaming. I definitely need to spend a not insignificant amount of time there daily to be happy.
When the last time I tried to get through high school (3rd attempt) there weren’t enough hours in day for me to spend sufficient time in my own world, I lost energy and burned out and had to quit. When I got home, I was too worn out to do anything but just exist. By the time I had recovered enough to do what I wanted, retreat to my own world, I should be going to bed. But I needed that trip into my daydreams and so I got to sleep too late which made it even worse and the cycle continued until a two months summer vacation wasn’t enough to refresh me and some months later I quit. I’ve been unemployed since and better off mentally. Almost all the time in the world to do what I want, instead of wearing myself out doing something I take no interest in. Daydreams equal happiness, obsessions equal happiness, special interests equal happiness. Being stuck with wasting most of your day on things that are as fulfilling as torture, equal weariness and burn out.

When you read a book, play a video game or read and post on WP, are you present or in your own world then?

Qawer, I don’t really get that “My life is a part of the world” vs “The world is a part of my life”. I would think it was opposite, that Nts would say the former, being out there and in the world and all that, while we would go for the “the world is a part of my life” option because the world is part of our lives, but no more than a small part since the majority of life for us is our minds. That makes more sense to me.
Also, “viewing the world through your own life”… how else could you possibly view it? Everyone is the center of their own life, and can only view it from a subjective POV. The only perspective you know, is yours.


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09 Apr 2013, 12:10 am

1960s London seems safer to me than 2013 Langley. It doesn't matter whether I'm living in the present or not. All that matters is that I'm a productive member of society.


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09 Apr 2013, 12:15 am

I try to stay present, but it's difficult. Between my associative brain and all the commotion that I need to block out around me, it's always challenging.