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Fnord
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16 Apr 2013, 10:00 am

Claradoon wrote:
I've got a fairly respectable cv too. But it was agony the whole way. I pretended to be normal. It was worse because there is absolutely nothing wrong with anybody in our family and that's that...

Oh, I'm not saying that life has been non-stop fun; I am saying that being determined to overcome the obstacles in one's life may make things better for that person than for someone who's had it easy ... and certainly better than for someone who's given up completely.



episette
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18 Apr 2013, 1:07 am

DVCal wrote:
damaged goods aren't gifts.


That is the way that I feel. I was born a freak and a retard.



kabouter
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18 Apr 2013, 2:41 am

Gifted synonyms: able, accomplished, adroit, brilliant, capable, class act, clever, expert, got it, have on the ball, have smarts, have the goods, hot*, hotshot, ingenious, mad, masterly, phenomenal, shining at, skilled, smart

Some of us are like that in certain areas, but.

Gifted antonyms: dull, incapable, inept, unintelligent, untalented.

We also have the antonyms which describe us quite well for certain areas like making friends, making smalltalk, reading faces, etc

They may balance out for some of us but not for all. Some of us have come out of it reasonably well after a struggle, but for others it is a continuous struggle.



Claradoon
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18 Apr 2013, 3:30 am

episette wrote:
DVCal wrote:
damaged goods aren't gifts.


That is the way that I feel. I was born a freak and a retard.


That's what I believed in myself until i started hanging out at WrongPlanet. I hope you can stay and talk about it and read about others - it helped me a lot.

The thing is, who gets to say what you are? Other people? What if they're wrong and they've been saying that all your life so you believe it? I'm asking you to put that aside for a bit, just to investigate and see what you find.

Could you talk about yourself a bit?



Marky9
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18 Apr 2013, 6:43 am

At one time I considered myself somewhat "gifted". I have a high IQ score and did very well academically in both college and grad school. I intellectualize most things and can expound eloquently (pedantically?) on topics of interest.

With benefit of age, life experience, counseling, and a better understanding of my Aspie nature, I now view myself a bit less self-servingly. I think of myself as someone with a somewhat above-average IQ but who, lacking any social life, spent 12 hours a day, 6 days a week in the library studying during college. This resulted in noteworthy academic achievements, but due largely to brute-force effort as opposed to being "gifted".



DVCal
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18 Apr 2013, 1:00 pm

Kuribo wrote:
DVCal wrote:
Fnord wrote:
DVCal wrote:
damaged goods aren't gifts.

My gift is knowing a dumpload of bullsnot when I see it.

:roll:


The truth can be painful. I have accepted it and so should you.


DVCal, might I ask what motivates you to damage the self-esteem of the Autistics who don't go through life considering themselves to be "damaged goods"? Jealousy?

As I have told you in the past, your "damaged goods" analogy is fundamentally wrong. Autistic people are born Autistic, and "damage" implies that something was once "better" than it currently is, which in turn, suggests that Autistics are flawed in comparison to Neurotypicals, and none of these are true.


It has ruined my life, I don't think I ever see it as being a positive or neutral thing.

I have a degree, I have a good paying job, I own a home, but I have a fundamental lack of friends, and I fear I will never find a wife.

I will die alone because of this condition.



Last edited by DVCal on 18 Apr 2013, 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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18 Apr 2013, 1:03 pm

DVCal wrote:
Kuribo wrote:
DVCal wrote:
Fnord wrote:
DVCal wrote:
damaged goods aren't gifts.
My gift is knowing a dumpload of bullsnot when I see it.
The truth can be painful. I have accepted it and so should you.
DVCal, might I ask what motivates you to damage the self-esteem of the Autistics who don't go through life considering themselves to be "damaged goods"? Jealousy? As I have told you in the past, your "damaged goods" analogy is fundamentally wrong. Autistic people are born Autistic, and "damage" implies that something was once "better" than it currently is, which in turn, suggests that Autistics are flawed in comparison to Neurotypicals, and none of these are true.
It has ruined my life, I don't think I ever see it as being a positive or neutral thing.

Well, that's you. It may be safe to say that most WP members think otherwise.



Claradoon
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18 Apr 2013, 4:41 pm

DVCal wrote:
It has ruined my life, I don't think I ever see it as being a positive or neutral thing.

I have a degree, I have a good paying job, I own a home, but I have a fundamental lack of friends, and I fear I will never find a wife.

I will die alone because of this condition.


My situation is similar to yours, from the sound of it. Keeping a roof over my head and meeting society's expectations took more energy than I had - and I had to wing it, because there was no guidance, since Asperger's wasn't defined until 1994 (3 years before I retired).

And so it wasn't until retirement that I could devote some energy to social cues. That was why I have always been isolated. It's a project I work on all the time. I do my own research because they can help children but not adults.

I am learning to smile. Rather, learning to remember to smile. For "normals", it's a reflex to return a smile with a smile. I just don't smile unless there's a reason, like something's funny or I've just remembered I'm supposed to. If I can remember to show my teeth when others smile, they will perceive this as friendliness. Otherwise, they'll be offended. There's no blame to them, reflex smiling is all they know.

After I started to train myself to smile, I realized I had to learn how to smile in the first place. I was in the habit of stretching my lips horizontally. Teeth hardly showed at all. Then I noticed my sil makes a big deal out of vertical smiling - the upper lip should rise. And *that* depends on exercising the muscles in the upper lip, so they'll kick in. So - smiling horizontally & vertically - ta-da! Now *that's* a smile! I practice smiling on cue when watching comedies on TV.

And I notice others are friendlier right away. Which is when I run up against the problem of not really wanting them to be - not all of them at once, anyway.

Yes it's tough. But you can change it. What ruined your life was not having a path out of the wilderness, such as they offer to 3yo's now. But there *is* a way out.



kabouter
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18 Apr 2013, 5:47 pm

DVCal wrote:
It has ruined my life, I don't think I ever see it as being a positive or neutral thing.

I have a degree, I have a good paying job, I own a home, but I have a fundamental lack of friends, and I fear I will never find a wife.

I will die alone because of this condition.


Remember, you have no choice of parents, where you are born, when you are born, or your basic make up.

You cannot know what it would be like to be born an NT (they have there own challenges as well, I suppose).

Life is making the best of what we are born with, this includes accepting who we are, and helping other people on the way.

You seem to have gained the material things, but did you put enough effort into social issues?

Most of us here have trouble making friends, but we do make them, and get depressed when they break up. But we keep trying and learning.

Most of us here know we are different, know the problems this brings, but accept the way we are and don't want a cure.

Anyway, I like the people here, they are the nuttiest, most direct, and friendliest people I have met online. They also don't think their life has been ruined (well most of the time).



Hopetobe
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18 Apr 2013, 6:44 pm

Many people have told me I´m gifted.



wittgenstein
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18 Apr 2013, 6:53 pm

I don't want to be "normal"! Facebook bores me (the conversations make me yawn! "Oh we went on a picnic...). I prefer an asbie conversation, religion politics science art etc. I hate reality TV! The "History " channel used to be interesting. Now its about the personal interactions of 3 fat guys trying to make money buying and selling junk.
I believe my aspie characteristics (lack of interest in social interactions ) makes me more sophisticated and interesting then "normals"!


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Claradoon
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18 Apr 2013, 8:08 pm

Me too, but I can't find any! Where are all these aspies that I could hang out with?

As for "normals" (I use that word for brevity) - they are the ones that hire and fire and set salaries, and that's just for starters.

I want a world we we *all* fit - when we diss normals we're as bad as normals dissing us.

I want a world where nobody reacts badly to a perceived handicap.

I want a world where everybody can be whatever they are, without penalty.

I want a world where (perhaps as an interim measure) "weird" is okay by everybody.



ezbzbfcg2
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19 Apr 2013, 6:19 am

Claradoon wrote:
I want a world where nobody reacts badly to a perceived handicap.

I want a world where everybody can be whatever they are, without penalty.

I want a world where (perhaps as an interim measure) "weird" is okay by everybody.


That sounds wonderful.

Unfortunately it will never happen. Why you ask? Because to the NT collective, such thinking is counter to their nature. And this has nothing to do with educating them. It's one of the key brain-wiring differences between us and them. It's not just that we think differently, it's that they're wired to be weary and hostile towards those who don't think like them.



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19 Apr 2013, 7:18 am

I proposed to my wife after one month of dating. She said,"proposing after only one month is weird." I answered,"do you like weird"? That sealed the deal! :D


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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


Claradoon
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19 Apr 2013, 8:34 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
Claradoon wrote:
I want a world where nobody reacts badly to a perceived handicap.

I want a world where everybody can be whatever they are, without penalty.

I want a world where (perhaps as an interim measure) "weird" is okay by everybody.


That sounds wonderful.

Unfortunately it will never happen. Why you ask? Because to the NT collective, such thinking is counter to their nature. And this has nothing to do with educating them. It's one of the key brain-wiring differences between us and them. It's not just that we think differently, it's that they're wired to be weary and hostile towards those who don't think like them.


I see your point, but think of the difference between the time of Charles Dickens and now. He changed things in a huge way - by making people see what was really happening. Even in my own time, Oprah has changed things beyond recognition - no more denial of incest, brutality in the home, blaming the victim - and these things changed directly from her in my own memory. Have we forgotten (or you're young enough) when these things were universal? When runaways were sent to Juvie?

We can and must make whatever changes we can. Some are hugely talented and will make huge changes. And the rest of us will make changes wherever we can, and the world will, I'm sure of it, the world will change.



WorldsEdge
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19 Apr 2013, 8:39 am

wittgenstein wrote:
We always read about ourselves as aspies as victims.


We do? I can't think of one book I've read over the past few years related to ASD that has struck anything but an upbeat to an almost over the top happy-happy tone on the condition/disorder/whatever. To what exactly are you referring? And contra your claim, I'd cite almost any of the books on this list culled from my Goodreads (link-hopefully all can access) account. (The lone exception being the book by Kamran Nazeer...that one had some sad stories. Including what I guess you'd call the non-story of one classmate who committed suicide. And even Nazeer seemed -- at least to me -- to be putting a too positive spin on things.)

In fact, I'm kind of starting to think there's an element of "whistling past the graveyard" in all these texts. In that in trying to help others the authors are being a bit less than honest and/or forthcoming. I could be wrong, of course...won't dispute that; but that's probably a discussion thread by itself. Anyway, I'm quite curious: Where are you reading all this negativity?

Quote:
Perhaps, we were given a gift?


Possible, but I'm skeptical. I'm of the opinion that people on the AS can and do succeed at life, can and do have relatively happy lives, and so on, don't get me wrong there. But to what extent ASD contributes to such success and happiness, that's where my skepticism kicks in. It may help in some ways, I guess, but I'm kind of dubious.

In fact, based upon my own life I'd almost say that what little success I've achieved and what little happiness I've had has come in spite of being on the AS rather than because of it. If your experience has been different, I'm happy for you, but, man, on a personal level there are days when I wish I could return this particular "gift" for a full cash refund. Or at least a store credit. :?


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