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Claradoon
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19 Apr 2013, 8:40 am

For heaven's sake, what am I *thinking* of???

Look at WrongPlanet! There's a big change for us all. Before WrongPlanet, Asperger's needed to be "cured." Now we know (70,000 of us) that we are not sick and have admirable traits. We know about social cues and sensory overload, and how to help ourselves. We have different viewpoints about importance, but we've got a good home base.

All of this in the last - five? - years. Carry on!



WorldsEdge
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19 Apr 2013, 9:27 am

Kuribo wrote:
DVCal wrote:
Fnord wrote:
DVCal wrote:
damaged goods aren't gifts.

My gift is knowing a dumpload of bullsnot when I see it.

:roll:


The truth can be painful. I have accepted it and so should you.


DVCal, might I ask what motivates you to damage the self-esteem of the Autistics who don't go through life considering themselves to be "damaged goods"? Jealousy?


I'm unwilling to go as far as DVCal in considering autistics "damaged goods," but I fail to see how that claim is any less supported by any kind of empirical evidence than a claim that those of us on the AS are somehow "gifted." It might be true, it might not be. And quite frankly I'd rather not bother with a red herring like self-esteem in attempting to evaluate such a claim.

Quote:
As I have told you in the past, your "damaged goods" analogy is fundamentally wrong. Autistic people are born Autistic, and "damage" implies that something was once "better" than it currently is, which in turn, suggests that Autistics are flawed in comparison to Neurotypicals, and none of these are true.


I don't see how it is fundamentally wrong. Such a claim may be empirically wrong, heck I'll even go out on a limb and suggest that it probably is, but fundamentally? As in, I'd consider a fish that could not extract oxygen from water as efficiently as all the other fish as being "damaged goods," despite the fact that it was indeed spawned that way. And what is the "water" we humans swim through these days nothing so much as success measured by our ability -- or inability -- to network, quickly form connections with others, quickly assess what it is that our bosses/co-workers/customers/friends, etc., want, and to what extent do they want it?

I realize that a term like "damaged goods" is freighted with an emotional sense that I could certainly do without, personally. But how is it any more or less accurate, or any less an appeal to emotion than a term like "gifted?" Both seem silly to me at first glance, but one, neither or -- by some tweaking of perspective -- even both might be true.

Ugh. I'll step off my soap box now. Sorry for the rant. :oops:


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AgentPalpatine
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19 Apr 2013, 9:39 am

WorldsEdge wrote:
wittgenstein wrote:
We always read about ourselves as aspies as victims.


We do? I can't think of one book I've read over the past few years related to ASD that has struck anything but an upbeat to an almost over the top happy-happy tone on the condition/disorder/whatever. To what exactly are you referring? And contra your claim, I'd cite almost any of the books on this list culled from my Goodreads (link-hopefully all can access) account. (The lone exception being the book by Kamran Nazeer...that one had some sad stories. Including what I guess you'd call the non-story of one classmate who committed suicide. And even Nazeer seemed -- at least to me -- to be putting a too positive spin on things.)


Wittgenstein may have meant on WP, which by any reasonable standard is filled with negativity.


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Claradoon
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19 Apr 2013, 11:27 am

Look, I have a gift. It's words. I'm extremely good at that. Ergo, I am gifted.

Does that mean I'm gifted at everything? Of course not! There are some things I'm lousy at.

As far as I can tell, "normals" are evenly gifted or not; aspies wobble along above and below average and spike high on one gift.

Are we just juggling semantics here?



WorldsEdge
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19 Apr 2013, 11:51 am

AgentPalpatine wrote:
Wittgenstein may have meant on WP, which by any reasonable standard is filled with negativity.


I guess. But if the site is "filled with negativity," it seems to me to be at least a justified negativity, in the sense that most people are posting about concrete problems related to jobs, relationships, school, etc. What I don't see is a lot of people saying that because of their ASD they're victims past, present and for all likelihood for the rest of their lives.

Might be the nature of ASD, might simply be that somebody who feels in need of support is simply more likely than not to self-select to a, well, support site. Possibly -- okay probably -- I'm also as like as not to miss some sort of important sub-text in a post, so perhaps when I think someone is talking about trees they're really discussing forests. That has certainly happened to me enough in this life.


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WorldsEdge
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19 Apr 2013, 12:03 pm

Claradoon wrote:
Look, I have a gift. It's words. I'm extremely good at that. Ergo, I am gifted.

Does that mean I'm gifted at everything? Of course not! There are some things I'm lousy at.

As far as I can tell, "normals" are evenly gifted or not; aspies wobble along above and below average and spike high on one gift.


I can't think of any way in which I "spike high on one gift," personally. Would be a nice to have, though. :(

And my d/x was about as thorough a one as you're likely to find. Better part of a day, with an IQ test, a battery of interview questions from a team of psychologists, and a bunch of crazy stuff on computer monitors that I'm still not sure what it was they had me doing. Plus I was actually able to convince my ex-wife to be interviewed. I'd say I'm the club, "gift" or no "gift."


Quote:
Are we just juggling semantics here?


I'd say so. Particularly when throwing around a loaded term like "gift" as related to personal attributes.


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Claradoon
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19 Apr 2013, 1:40 pm

Gosh I'm losing patience. Now we're going to play 'my dx was better than yours'? You said, "...I am the club..." Is that what you meant? Or you're *in* it?



wittgenstein
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19 Apr 2013, 1:51 pm

http://www.aspergerssyndromeparent.com/ ... rgers.html
http://www.myaspergerschild.com/2010/12 ... cs-of.html
Autism is increasing. Sometimes I think we are the next stage in evolution!
:D


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19 Apr 2013, 2:18 pm

wittgenstein wrote:
http://www.aspergerssyndromeparent.com/famous-people-with-aspergers.html
http://www.myaspergerschild.com/2010/12 ... cs-of.html
Autism is increasing. Sometimes I think we are the next stage in evolution!
:D

Diagnoses of Autism are increasing.

We are NOT the "next stage in evolution" any more than people with color-blindness, tone-deafness, and congenital analgesia are the next stage in evolution.

The next stage in evolution would have inheritable advantages over the previous stage, and most of us can't even attract a mate.



wittgenstein
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19 Apr 2013, 3:10 pm

Most of the traits are positive not negative. If a black person experienced prejudice would you say that he suffered from a deficiency, a lack of whiteness?
Yes there is a drawback to Asperger's, the stupidity of prejudice. How many of you would feel proud saying YES, when someone asks you if you are an aspie?
Actually, "normals" respect that. Self loathing and thinking of oneself as a victim will not earn you respect. If you say",YES I am an aspie and proud of being part of a community that includes many extremely exceptional people", and say that strongly, even "normal" women will be attracted to you.


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wittgenstein
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19 Apr 2013, 3:33 pm

In high school I was very shy and had very few dates. Unfortunately, I turned to alcohol. It made me confident and I began dating quite a bit. Then I learned to be proud of who I am, I was no longer shy and no longer needed alcohol. I am now married and very happy. I never pretended to be someone that I am not when dating my soon to be wife.


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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
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20 Apr 2013, 11:10 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ec ... 4377599EF5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar-Z_l907DY
Many women find a guy that does not smile (or at most slightly) very cool and therefore sexy!

PS; I prefer the term AWE-tism! :D


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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


WarmAir
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20 Apr 2013, 6:55 pm

[quote="Marky9"]At one time I considered myself somewhat "gifted". I have a high IQ score and did very well academically in both college and grad school. I intellectualize most things and can expound eloquently (pedantically?) on topics of interest. [quote]

I also have an high IQ (well, 100 even), but never really realized one could have both a high IQ and a form of Autism.

I'm gifted in visual art (many forms). One of my friends says that I have endless creativity, and my art therapist believes that nothing about me suprises her because I know how do everything already. Also, I was gifted in writing fiction, but I gave that up ages ago.


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06 May 2013, 10:14 pm

I think there are two answers to this.

1/ I don't believe Asperger’s are more gifted than the rest of the population. What we generally have is a stronger focus and a penchant for repetitive work, which allows us to create great works. This is a procedural advantage, not a skill advantage.

2/ There will be a percentage of the population which are naturally skilled. Some of these will be Asperger’s. This may confuse those Asperger’s who are skilled, but I view this as happenchance rather than a higher rate of skill among Asperger’s.

My opinion only, yours may vary.



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14 May 2013, 8:11 pm

I think that having the trait of ignoring the superfluous is a gift (and a curse sometimes). For example, many deep thinkers are aspies.
I once gave this thought experiment to "normals", imagine a railroad track. On it are 20 people tied to the track. A train is coming! You are between the 20 people and the train. Where you are standing is a switch that will divert the train to another track. Unfortunately, that other track has 2 people tied to it. Do you switch the train to the other track? Kill 2 innocent people to save 20? Obviously, the point of the thought experiment is to explore your feelings about the proposition, "the end justifies the means".
The "normals" kept being distracted by superfluous nonsense like," I would bomb the track so the train would not go on either track."


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YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM