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Verdandi
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15 Apr 2013, 9:22 pm

As far as nonconformity goes, I guess it matters when one doesn't try to use nonconformity itself as a form of social pressure to encourage conformity (as has happened to me on this forum, when someone told me - incorrectly, in this case - that I was adopting the majority view and they were standing apart from it).

I am not a conformist, but it is not something I really see as such as an important part of my identity that I label myself or talk about it. Mostly, I just do my own thing because doing everyone else's is boring to me. There are still a lot of things I enjoy that a lot of other more "mainstream" people enjoy.

I am not sure where I'm going here: I guess mostly I don't really care to look at things in terms of a mainstream/nonconformist dichotomy where they're automatically bad and good respectively. Too many variables.



seaturtleisland
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15 Apr 2013, 9:40 pm

I have the urge to conform and the urge to try and be different. I'm just as afraid of doing something that everyone else is doing at times as I am afraid of not doing what everyone else is doing at other times. I don't even know whether I am a stereotypical, "obsessive non-conformist hipster" or a hard-core conformist. I have both instincts.



InThisTogether
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16 Apr 2013, 6:29 am

Anomiel wrote:
InThisTogether wrote:
Troy_Guther wrote:

I also find it hilarious that there is often a huge social pressure from one's own in-group to regard everyone who believes differently as sheep. The irony is delicious.


Yes, indeed.

Then you have the "nonconformists" who work so hard at nonconforming that they conform to the concept of nonconformity. I know a few people like that who are almost comical in the degree to which they let rebuffing "the conformist majority" dictate who they are, how they feel, and what they believe.


So. There are people that do that. How do you tell the difference between genuinely held beliefs and people who are pretending? Do you think that everyone defaults to exactly the same mold, and any deviation from that takes work? I am very vocal about not having to pressure everyone to conform, that doesn't make the act of non-conforming in itself political. It's just how some people are. That is even more insulting than calling people "sheeple" - you have to remember who's in the majority there, and which we are pressured to be.


I think that being "in the middle" is the hardest place to be. I think that it takes a lot of cognitive work to not get pulled into the polar ends of most issues. For most issues, there are really loud and convincing people on both sides of the extremes of any given issue. The "easiest" thing to do is to hear the one that is "closest to" what you think and just go that direction without really thinking about it anymore. The hard thing to do is to stay in the middle because then you have to think a lot more.

More specifically, here is my opinion: There are some people out there who will avoid doing anything that the "masses" do. Simply because the masses do it and they refuse to conform. It isn't that they are not doing it because they don't want to, or because they have an issue with it, or because it conflicts with their values. They are not doing it because to do so would be to conform. But what they don't see is that they are simply conforming to their (IMHO) errant belief that doing anything that the "masses" do is wrong or beneath them or however they see it.

A "true" "free" person--which is what I think most non-conformists would like to think of themselves as, IMHO, does what he or she believes is "right"--however they define that--regardless of what the "masses" or other "nonconformists" are doing. Because they don't rely on the opinions of others to make their choices. They rely on themselves. So sometimes they will follow the masses, and sometimes they will not. But it isn't because they are looking to others, it is because it is what their own inner sense of right dictates.


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Biscuitman
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16 Apr 2013, 6:44 am

I certainly do not conform in terms of fashions and music.

Deffo not a try hard nonconformist but there have been moments where it has felt nice to be a bit more unique than others in my interests



hanyo
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16 Apr 2013, 7:02 am

I had a friend in an online game once tell me that I "try to hard to be weird". I had to tell him I'm not trying, I'm just naturally that way.

I am neither conformist or nonconformist. I just like or not like things based on my own thoughts and feelings and not on what others do or don't do.



Raziel
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16 Apr 2013, 7:18 am

I would say the one trait that all Aspies share is detail orientation.

My mom has propably ADHD with autistic tendencies and she follows every single herd, because that way she has less trouble with the social understanding and noone will notice.


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jk1
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16 Apr 2013, 7:22 am

I have to admit that I have a tendency to stop liking something that I have liked and that is becoming popular among other people, too. Somehow when other people like what I like, it becomes less interesting. I wouldn't say I'm like that about everything. I also don't try popular things to see whether I will like them or not. Does this make me a "try-hard-nonconformist"?

Thanks, some people, I didn't know the terms "sheepism" and "sheeple". I learn many things here on WP.

I think the most common trait among (almost) all people with AS is some broad social-related trait - something like not feeling comfortable in social situations. This itself is actually not a trait, but is the consequence of a trait, I guess. The actual trait might be not being able to read body language or something. Still I think I have seen posts by some people with AS who seemed to be quite ok socially.



jk1
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16 Apr 2013, 7:23 am

Raziel wrote:
I would say the one trait that all Aspies share is detail orientation.

My mom has propably ADHD with autistic tendencies and she follows every single herd, because that way she has less trouble with the social understanding and noone will notice.


Actually you might be right about that.



chlov
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16 Apr 2013, 7:39 am

I'm nor a conformist neither a nonconfornist. I don't understand those. I just do what my instinct tells me to do.
I only do what I feel like doing. If, by chance, I do/like something that the majority of people don't do/like I don't care; or, if I do/like something the majority of people do/like it's the same, I don't care.
I do not try to avoid something just because it's too popular, or because it's not popular enough.
I know that my opinions are usually not shared by the majority of people, but it has nothing to do with being a nonconformist. I am like this, that's all. I do nothing not to conform or to conform. I can't copy what other people do, I can't fake. I can only follow my instinct.

I don't know if there is a single traits all people with Asperger's share.
But social skills impairment is the most important symptom to do an AS diagnosis, and AS is characterized by social skills impairment, but I don't know. I never think about these kind of things.



naturalplastic
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16 Apr 2013, 8:01 am

Interesting question- if we do or dont indeed share one or more traits.

I would say aspies find socializing to be something that takes an expenditure of energy, rather than something that they get energized from. The later is what I imagine to be the case for Nt's.

Social situations my be fun or rewarding in the end but they still take an investment of energy.



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16 Apr 2013, 9:19 am

I wouldn't say conforming as I've met a few Aspies who are all into conforming, I think as a result of being excluded a lot. They're also on the extroverted side, but they're all socially awkward anyway.

So I would say "social awkwardness" is the one trait that all Aspies have.

naturalplastic wrote:
Interesting question- if we do or dont indeed share one or more traits.

I would say aspies find socializing to be something that takes an expenditure of energy, rather than something that they get energized from. The later is what I imagine to be the case for Nt's.

Social situations my be fun or rewarding in the end but they still take an investment of energy.
I think you've just defined "introvert". Not all Aspies are introverted.


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16 Apr 2013, 9:22 am

If there is one common trait I would say it is requiring explicit teaching regarding social knowledge that NTs tend to learn implicitly. All other things seem to vary. Exist in some. Not in all. This seems to be a constant. The main thing that distinguishes my daughter from her peers is that she does not learn any social knowledge without explicit instruction. Once she has it she does quite well but until then,she will never figure it out on her own. My son is the same way only there are additional things that distinguish him from his peers.


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16 Apr 2013, 12:03 pm

I sort of follow the majority. I don't like to and it annoys me, but then I don't want to stand out and be ridiculed or anything like that. I don't go over the top, but I don't stand out either. I wear stylish clothes and act normal when I'm out and I don't play like a child or anything like that. There are a few small things I do that the majority probably don't do, but nobody has to know (like I write endless stories about my special interest). But otherwise, in general, I sort of follow the crowd.


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16 Apr 2013, 1:26 pm

MathGirl wrote:
I wouldn't say conforming as I've met a few Aspies who are all into conforming, I think as a result of being excluded a lot. They're also on the extroverted side, but they're all socially awkward anyway.

So I would say "social awkwardness" is the one trait that all Aspies have.

naturalplastic wrote:
Interesting question- if we do or dont indeed share one or more traits.

I would say aspies find socializing to be something that takes an expenditure of energy, rather than something that they get energized from. The later is what I imagine to be the case for Nt's.

Social situations my be fun or rewarding in the end but they still take an investment of energy.
I think you've just defined "introvert". Not all Aspies are introverted.


Yeah...since social awkwardness is a catch-all for social problems that's one thing you could say. All aspies have social problems of one kind or another. They manifest themselves in different ways but they're always there. It's part of the criteria for the disorder.

Not conforming? No way.......some aspies try SO hard to imitate others around them and fit in. They're not always successful at it but some definitely try. I was one of them at a certain point in my life. I found the effort too exhausting to continue. I know some aspies and some people in general , some NT's, for that matter just like the idea of being unique and different and not following the herd. Sorry guys, it isn't always the case.



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16 Apr 2013, 3:27 pm

Regarding "conformity": as many of you have already said, I do what makes sense to me and like what I like, and don't worry too much about whether or not it makes sense/appeals to a "majority", "minority" or "neither."

I once wrote this in a journal: "since I don't fit, I DO fit." (Think about that one for a moment. 8O )

Regarding social skills: had to study those the way I study academic subjects. Still learning, btw. :)

"One trait that all Aspies share?" Other than going on DSM criteria (which is changing again, of course), I don't really think so. Variance in degree(s) of different traits, maybe, but no ONE single "identifier", if that's what the OP meant.


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