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Rational thinking?

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Jamesy
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22 Apr 2013, 12:19 pm

What the advantages of rational thinking?



Si_82
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22 Apr 2013, 12:48 pm

By and large, arriving at the correct answer to any given question? I am very enthusiastic about rationality and often find those who operate without it or against it to be frustrating. It's sort of a special interest I suppose - I have read quite a bit about it.


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Troy_Guther
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22 Apr 2013, 12:48 pm

The biggest benefit has to be the ability to avoid an inordinate amount of problems that other people just walk into because they "trust their gut".



Tressillian
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22 Apr 2013, 12:58 pm

Irrational thinking/behavior means your actions are in direct opposition to your goals or desired outcome. Rational thinking and behavior means your actions are in alignment with your goals and desired outcomes.

Irrational thinkers perpetuate their irrationality because they blame their lack of success on external factors instead of the irrationality.



Highlander852456
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22 Apr 2013, 1:26 pm

Majority of Aspies are considered irrational by NTs.



Gromit
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22 Apr 2013, 1:42 pm

Jamesy wrote:
What the advantages of rational thinking?

Avoiding these kinds of problems: http://www.whatstheharm.net/ and http://lesswrong.com/



CarpeDiem
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22 Apr 2013, 1:45 pm

The benefits of rational thinking include taking emotional connection, prejudices and preconceived ideas out of decision making and considering an issue using purely empirical and fact based judgement. Like anything rational thinking has it's downsides as just because something is rational does not mean it is right on balance. A good example would be utilitarianism, a theory that seeks to justify decisions and decision making on the basis of utility, that is the greatest amount of good for the greatest number. Although it sounds like a great idea it creates many ethical dilemmas, such as whether it is right to divert a train killing a few people to save the many people trapped on a bus on the other track. An extreme example but one that shows how logic and rational thinking is not sufficient to make the correct moral or ethical decisions in life.

Rationality requires people to have no emotional connection or investment in the decision at hand, which is not only very hard to achieve, it is also rather irrational to not consult the emotions of oneself and others in decision making. The only true rationality comes from machines. Humans are just not very rational beings.



Homo_Economicus
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22 Apr 2013, 2:22 pm

CarpeDiem wrote:
The benefits of rational thinking include taking emotional connection, prejudices and preconceived ideas out of decision making and considering an issue using purely empirical and fact based judgement. Like anything rational thinking has it's downsides as just because something is rational does not mean it is right on balance. A good example would be utilitarianism, a theory that seeks to justify decisions and decision making on the basis of utility, that is the greatest amount of good for the greatest number. Although it sounds like a great idea it creates many ethical dilemmas, such as whether it is right to divert a train killing a few people to save the many people trapped on a bus on the other track. An extreme example but one that shows how logic and rational thinking is not sufficient to make the correct moral or ethical decisions in life.

Rationality requires people to have no emotional connection or investment in the decision at hand, which is not only very hard to achieve, it is also rather irrational to not consult the emotions of oneself and others in decision making. The only true rationality comes from machines. Humans are just not very rational beings.


Ever since I read about utilitarianism, I've always been a fan of it. It can present ethical dilemmas like you say, but I still believe that one should act according to the principles of utilitarianism in those cases. People only think it's wrong because of the false (irrational) assumption that they're not to blame if they didn't act, e.g. if they didn't divert the train, even though that caused more victims. It is my opinion that this false assumption may be related to human nature, being more adaptive in times when the world wasn't so complex that not deciding to intervene could have serious consequenses.

I've always felt that aspies are far more rational than but even we do not always act rationally. People can also act very rationally while the motive for the behavior can be quite irrational. A professor once told me that theologists often have extremely rational explanations for phenomena which are rather irrational in nature.



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22 Apr 2013, 2:29 pm

An example might make it easier to discuss this matter.


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22 Apr 2013, 3:03 pm

Jamesy wrote:
What the advantages of rational thinking?

1. Its use tends to lead to the commission of fewer logical errors, because you can think in "shades of gray" instead of "black and white" - even though your conclusions may ultimately be of the "black or white, but never both" variety.

2. Being reality-based, it emphasizes realistic perceptions and the maintaining of a realistic perspective - this lets you see many sides of something instead of being close-minded.

3. It enables the planning of activities that can help to achieve goals and purposes - you can find a solution that is more likely to work, because you have looked at all the evidence and data.

4. Emotions have less impact and influence on decision-making - rational decisions are more likely to be good ones, while emotional ones usually turn out badly.

5. You are more likely to be able to tell if something is the right thing to do, because you can look at things objectively.

6. Employers like to hire and retain people who can make decisions without also creating a lot of drama.



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22 Apr 2013, 3:55 pm

Homo_Economicus wrote:
CarpeDiem wrote:
The benefits of rational thinking include taking emotional connection, prejudices and preconceived ideas out of decision making and considering an issue using purely empirical and fact based judgement. Like anything rational thinking has it's downsides as just because something is rational does not mean it is right on balance. A good example would be utilitarianism, a theory that seeks to justify decisions and decision making on the basis of utility, that is the greatest amount of good for the greatest number. Although it sounds like a great idea it creates many ethical dilemmas, such as whether it is right to divert a train killing a few people to save the many people trapped on a bus on the other track. An extreme example but one that shows how logic and rational thinking is not sufficient to make the correct moral or ethical decisions in life.

Rationality requires people to have no emotional connection or investment in the decision at hand, which is not only very hard to achieve, it is also rather irrational to not consult the emotions of oneself and others in decision making. The only true rationality comes from machines. Humans are just not very rational beings.


Ever since I read about utilitarianism, I've always been a fan of it. It can present ethical dilemmas like you say, but I still believe that one should act according to the principles of utilitarianism in those cases. People only think it's wrong because of the false (irrational) assumption that they're not to blame if they didn't act, e.g. if they didn't divert the train, even though that caused more victims. It is my opinion that this false assumption may be related to human nature, being more adaptive in times when the world wasn't so complex that not deciding to intervene could have serious consequences.


I have always thought along the same lines as well. In my experience, almost all criticism of utilitarianism is based on the idea that refusing to be involved absolves them of culpability. Inaction is also an action. Refusing to choose is itself also a choice.

Besides, I also tend to find that opponents of utilitarianism usually begin to see its merits once they are are the proper situation, just as those who believe in black and white morality start to see a lot more grey once the situation involves them personally.



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22 Apr 2013, 5:08 pm

Highlander852456 wrote:
Majority of Aspies are considered irrational by NTs.


Most likely because the majority of NTs are completely incapable of actual rational thinking, at least in my experience. So therefore they have to make their own view of rational. I mean, really... The people who think WE are irrational are the ones who came up with the concept of "reality TV"...



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22 Apr 2013, 5:28 pm

According to Linehan (sp?) who's a famous psychology person, there are 3 types of thinking:
Rational Mind: Thinking about facts only.
Emotional Mind: Thinking of feelings only.
Wise Mind: bringing together fact and feelings.


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22 Apr 2013, 5:33 pm

I find that many self-described "rational thinkers" on the internet appear to be in denial about their emotional biases, or the fact that emotions underlie all decision making.

The advantage of being rational is knowing how to find some distance from one's emotions, but understanding that one's emotions are still important and not universally bad.



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22 Apr 2013, 5:50 pm

Fnord wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
What the advantages of rational thinking?

1. Its use tends to lead to the commission of fewer logical errors, because you can think in "shades of gray" instead of "black and white" - even though your conclusions may ultimately be of the "black or white, but never both" variety.

2. Being reality-based, it emphasizes realistic perceptions and the maintaining of a realistic perspective - this lets you see many sides of something instead of being close-minded.

3. It enables the planning of activities that can help to achieve goals and purposes - you can find a solution that is more likely to work, because you have looked at all the evidence and data.

4. Emotions have less impact and influence on decision-making - rational decisions are more likely to be good ones, while emotional ones usually turn out badly.

5. You are more likely to be able to tell if something is the right thing to do, because you can look at things objectively.

6. Employers like to hire and retain people who can make decisions without also creating a lot of drama.

7. Being able to out-perform and out-think all of the emos and drama-queens where I work.



Highlander852456
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22 Apr 2013, 10:48 pm

EMTkid wrote:
Highlander852456 wrote:
Majority of Aspies are considered irrational by NTs.


Most likely because the majority of NTs are completely incapable of actual rational thinking, at least in my experience. So therefore they have to make their own view of rational. I mean, really... The people who think WE are irrational are the ones who came up with the concept of "reality TV"...


I know. I was speaking of ritual and rigid behavior that NTs do not understand. Also about obsessions that can get you in to jail, just because NTs do not understand them.