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1000Knives
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28 Apr 2013, 3:34 am

lotuspuppy wrote:
DarkRain wrote:
Sorry, but I disagree. From what I've seen, this so-called "Millennial" generation does feel as though it's entitled to more things these days. I'm even going to go as far as to say that what people in college do these days is nothing compared to older generations (I say this through experience...I graduated from college back in 2005.).

You think things are hard these days? Imagine living back in the Depression era. Imagine living back during the World War II era, when everyone had to sacrifice the things they liked. What's going on today is nothing compared to back then, but people managed to survive.
You do what you have to do even if it's not what you want to do. You'll survive.

To be quite honest, I have a lot more respect and admiration for the "dinosaurs" and "retired naysayers" than I do for the younger generations. Oh, and I'm 34, about to be 35, just in case you wanted to know.


I notice our assessment of pass generations skip the Baby Boomers. They are who I regard as broadly the most selfish, hedonistic, dim whitted generation, and they mostly created the problems of today. Their parents solved them, by and large.

I, too, admire the so-called "Greatest Generation" and my grandparents' generation, the Silent Generation. The Silents were born during the Depression, and fought in Korea. Both went through a lot, and both were insanely ingenious. I think those broad generations have a lot more in common with the Millennials than either have with the Boomers.


I agree. I do tend to feel disdain toward the baby boomer gen. I guess in some sense, the baby boomer gen was the millenial gen, ie, born in a time of rapid technological advancement and economic prosperity, who got to f**k around and smoke weed and do LSD. However, they rode a nice postwar train to prosperity.

Anyway, one stat I find hilarious is Spain has 50% youth unemployment. Baby boomers are freaking out because they might seriously have no pensions as there's no jobs for the young people. Young people have to go abroad to find good employment.

I think the issue too is, expectations. We're simply not getting what our parent's generation got handed to them. No baby boomer I know can honestly give sob stories like "we made shoes from old tires" or something. The baby boomers were the first generation with entitlements, they're the ones using the SSI money, they were the first to use Pell grants, first to use unemployment, etc. Maybe they should have bitched about entitlements back when they milked them.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d07/ ... 07_320.asp
Check it out.
Total tuition (room and board, too) for an average 4 year college in 1976 was $2275. Adjusted for inflation, it's about $8000 in 2006 according to an inflation calculator. 2006 college tuition? $28,000!



thewhitrbbit
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29 Apr 2013, 9:51 am

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Why can't my professor meet my parents? Also passing costs off as student debt has major negative economic implications for the future because of Ricardian equivalence which is more true than government debt. Also in US there is more government spending going toward older people.


Didn't say they couldn't. But professors meeting parents is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about students saying "Mommy the teacher gave me a bad grade, can you call him?" This s**t happens. You need to learn to fight your own battles. There's nothing wrong with getting advice from parents, and sometimes if it's huge you might need help. But your parents should be teaching you how to handle these things on your own, not doing it for you. That's a huge part of the problem.

College should be viewed as an investment in my opinion. I am paying money to receive an education, which will then give me a job which can pay back my investment and give me money to live. Now people aren't doing that. They are going to college without a plan, running up huge debts, with no plans. Then they can't find a job because they don't have an employable skill, so they run up more debt going to grad school, either in the same unemployable skill or a different one, and then graduate, and can't get a job because who wants to hire a master's degree with no experience.

The cost of college is skyrocketing, but there are reasons for it that you may not think. Normally, competition breeds reduction in price, however, student loans are so plentiful that colleges can charge whatever they want, and know they will get paid. Students want the best of the best of everything. That costs money too.

Our high school's do a SHITTY job of preparing kids for college. So do parents. I don't blame students for all these things. You need to come to college with a plan. When you choose a major, you need to look at it objectively.

BTW anyone want to call BS...I work at a university, 4 years. Seen it ALL first hand.



lotuspuppy
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29 Apr 2013, 10:14 am

thewhitrbbit wrote:
Quote:
Why can't my professor meet my parents? Also passing costs off as student debt has major negative economic implications for the future because of Ricardian equivalence which is more true than government debt. Also in US there is more government spending going toward older people.


Didn't say they couldn't. But professors meeting parents is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about students saying "Mommy the teacher gave me a bad grade, can you call him?" This sh** happens. You need to learn to fight your own battles. There's nothing wrong with getting advice from parents, and sometimes if it's huge you might need help. But your parents should be teaching you how to handle these things on your own, not doing it for you. That's a huge part of the problem.

I don't think that is entitlement so much as it is bad parenting. Many parents today are helicopter parents, used to doing everything for their children. It's a control thing. I think these parents take satisfaction that they can complain about grades (is that legal?), or intervene in their working and relationship lives. Maybe the parents are afraid their kids will rebel without control. After all, many are Boomers, who rebelled against their parents.

I am very proud my mother was not like that. She does offer me support, notably in the fact that I lived with her for two years after college. Nevertheless, she has never intervened in my schooling or my work, never gave me financial support beyond the aforementioned household sharing agreement (which I do not regard as a bad thing at all), and would NEVER intervene in my social or love life. I am not sure she even cares. She genuinely wants what is best for me, and trusts me to pursue my own happiness and welfare. Needless to say, we are very close.

The same parenting philosophy carried over to my brother and sister. My sister was a valedictorian at a large state school, and my brother went to one of the ten best schools in the world. Not bad for a single parent.



MDD123
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29 Apr 2013, 6:34 pm

@1000Knives, I second expectations as a factor. We expect the entire k-12 demographic to care about their education like their lives depend on it, assuming they meet the first expectation, they're then expected to make the life altering decision of what school and what major to pick. My sister went to Berkeley and majored in anthropology, she regrets that decision.



bryanmaloney
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30 Apr 2013, 10:35 am

One side-effect of my own non-neurotypical wiring is that I do not suffer from the same sort of generational amnesia that afflicts most of humanity.


I actually REMEMBER what it was like when I was a teenager, college student, etc. I may not remember events, but I remember what it was like, how it felt, the general attitudes of the time, etc.

Guess what: When I was the age that "millenials" now are, it was MY generation that was called all this stuff. My parents' generation went through the same nonsense. Every single generation puts up with it. It's a defense mechanism on the part of the older generation. The older ones lie to themselves about how wonderful they are, how tolerable their parents were, and how heavenly and perfect grandma and grandpa were. The kids, though, all stink on ice.

Lather, rinse, repeat, generation after generation.



MeshGearFox
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30 Apr 2013, 4:11 pm

My opinion of millinials was formed on a temp job I took for extra money. The agency said the project was way behind schedule and they needed help finishing it. When I got there, it was all recent grads doing nothing. Worse, I soon discovered it was a kiddie park on some days.

One guy was the assistant to the project manager. We were all temps, but the kid inexplicably thought his status as assistant gave him the right to do anything he wanted. He insulted his coworkers, bragged about his access to management, and would easily have been the subject of a lawsuit if he actually worked for the company. A temp who acted like he was king? I thought he was completely delusional. His kiddie friends in the department enjoyed his antics, so the frat house party continued and the project was never finished. He even started harassing me and mocking me because I was a professional doing good work and getting noticed for it. I left rather than deal with such nonsense.

I never considered leaving my permanent job again. I'm thankful to work with professional grown ups.



bryanmaloney
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01 May 2013, 11:35 am

MeshGearFox wrote:
My opinion of millinials was formed on a temp job I took for extra money.


What evidence have you that what you observed is unique to "millenials" and not a matter of their youth? As I already wrote, what is being claimed about "millenials" has been claimed about every generation, just as soon as an older generation reaches the "Git offa mah lawn!" stage of life.

The barbarians are always at the gates.
The young are always irresponsible and self-centered.
Society is always on the brink of collapse.

This is how it is, this is how it always has been, this is how it always shall be.



XFilesGeek
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03 May 2013, 11:50 am

bryanmaloney wrote:
MeshGearFox wrote:
My opinion of millinials was formed on a temp job I took for extra money.


What evidence have you that what you observed is unique to "millenials" and not a matter of their youth? As I already wrote, what is being claimed about "millenials" has been claimed about every generation, just as soon as an older generation reaches the "Git offa mah lawn!" stage of life.

The barbarians are always at the gates.
The young are always irresponsible and self-centered.
Society is always on the brink of collapse.

This is how it is, this is how it always has been, this is how it always shall be.


This.


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WrongWay
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05 May 2013, 5:50 am

I agree. In response to young people having 'no ambition' - perhaps they're looking for one but haven't found it yet. Also, the job market in general is more competitive than it used to be (a problem exacerbated by the economic situation in most places around the world these last few years). And people buy houses later because the prices are much higher (even after adjusting for inflation). Of course some young people are going to be discontent and complain - it may appear to be 'entitled' behaviour but it's not really fair to say that considering the new challenges young people now face.


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zer0netgain
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11 May 2013, 12:49 pm

lotuspuppy wrote:
I just read a blog post from a U.S. career site about the so-called "Millennial" generation, or those born between 1980 and 2000. For the most part, the specific piece said that the cranky old people are right when they call us "entitled." Basically, it accused our generation members of drifting between school and part time jobs because we have not "found ourselves" yet, and delaying major life decisions a decade or more later than our parents (most of whom were Baby Boomers). All of this is what some older people and bloggers take to mean that we do not want to commit to things.

With respect to the blogger, I am insulted. I am sure there are many who genuinely have no ambition, and many have slipped into drugs and are becoming vegetables. Nevertheless, many of us are either working harder than our parents just to stay in place, or held in place by fear. Maybe some of us go to graduate school because we sense the job market is becoming tough for college graduates. Maybe we do not have families or buy homes until later because we do not know when financial stability will come. Maybe we just prefer renting over buying. Either way, most of us are not making these decisions out of some hedonistic sense of entitlement.

I am also angry. I am starting to realize I had to work harder at school and college than my parents. My college group projects often had to meet after 10 p.m. because that was the only time everyone was free. Many, many people I know worked just as hard. Many of us have nothing to show for it. So for a blogger to suggest we are lazy and entitled is insulting.


The knife can cut both ways.

I was born in '68. I was the product of a pretty bad education system, and I am flabbergasted as how horrible public education has become. For every teenager who is a smart kid, there is probably 20 "idiots" who I'd never hire for pretty much anything.

A big fault of this is the parents NOT being there for the kids. Not teaching them about self-reliance, responsibility, hard work, critical thinking, etc. and entrusting them to a "government school" that has dumbed down education to the point that experienced teachers lament what has become of education in America.

The sad truth is that a lot of kids in this generation are pretty much useless. Not because they are "bad kids" per se, but because they have been brought up with a sense of tolerance to being ignorant and lazy...with a sense of entitlement to all the things they desire out of life. As they reach adulthood and learn that life DOES NOT work the way your parents and teachers said in school, they are disillusioned, bitter, angry, etc. Perhaps worse is that they are not EMPOWERED to do anything about it. You can't take a person with no survival skills and toss them into a forest and expect them to survive. Yeah, a few will get lucky and/or dig down deep into themselves and find the grit to do what it takes to survive, but most will panic and die.

Life is a very harsh environment. You raise your kids to be ready to not only take it on, but to thrive in it. Parents are falling down on that job and so are schools. Some of the "best" Americans in recent history grew up in times of poverty, war and famine. The hardships of life toughened them up and taught them that anything less than hard work was not going to do the job. They went on (as a whole) to do some amazing things. With the "baby boomers," we saw a generation that didn't know anything of the hardships their parents faced, and their actions (and child rearing methods) have had painful consequences on later generations.

For all the "waking up" that I have done to learn that I have to work hard if I'm to have anything good in life, I keep catching myself operating with that "entitlement mentality" garbage my high school and college teachers fed me. I should know better, but the programming is that deeply buried in my psyche. It doesn't give me a lot of hope for kids born after me. I suppose if the economy really tanks, it will be those who are forced to grow up in poverty who will be the achievers of the next generation.



appletheclown
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11 May 2013, 6:12 pm

lotuspuppy wrote:
It will probably get worse for Millenials, too, at least in the long run. I just read in The Atlantic about the generation of Japanese who have come of age since 1990, when their economy imploded. Since that time, Japan has experienced price and wage deflation more often than not, government debt is two and a half times their GDP, and the GDP in today's money is smaller than it was in 1992. Anyone who came of age since that time has had trouble finding a real job, as firms are reluctant to hire. Half of all Japanese workers under 35 are temps.

The article related this to the U.S, and their are indeed deep similarities. The U.S. does not have Japan's acute demographic problems, which will help. What it does have are $63 trillion in unfunded liabilities, mostly to our parents. And guess who is expected to work to pay those off? Unless those liabilities are abated somehow, Millennials will see lower take home pay and higher taxes than their parents for the rest of their natural lives.

I am horrified about similar situations elsewhere in the world. China has virtually no entitlements, but the demographic crisis is extremely severe. By some accounts, the Chinese workforce has peaked in size. Much of Europe has the worse of both worlds, and will surely follow the example of Japan.

Let's not forget the environmental degradation that our generation has to deal with, too. And to think we'd be sipping lattes on Mars by this time!



Your wrong about Japan. If you have any bachelors degree, and I mean any, you can get a decent paying job in Japan teaching English. I don't know what any of you are complaining. I've been kicking myself for quite awhile now, and you know what? I can still make it. I'm getting my degree through night classes, making custom hand forged tools and knives, and lots of stuff. Already got a crude forge set up. It is made from bricks (no mortar), and a grate. That is it. All I need is coal, and maybe a bellows. You guys have to have a gun ho attitude. I could be in Sault Ste. Marie, having the time of my life, but I got lazy. Now I have to do things the hard way. All of you lolly gaggers need to buck up, I don't have a degree, and I am not going to let that stop me. If you need a job that badly, go to Japan, and teach english.


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