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Kjas
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25 Apr 2013, 2:16 am

AgentPalpatine wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
They also realise that realistically, WP is the only sort of community we are ever likely to get.


I respectfully disagree. Even if we're only 1/1,000th of the population (which is far below most studies), that would be enough of a density to at least have Aspie-aligned residences in small areas, and Aspie neighborhoods in larger metro areas.

Even if you disagree with an Aspie community, what's stopping us from forming offline social groups? Many posters have complained of social interaction issues when living in the "NT" world, why not have an hour a week where you communicate with other Aspies?


Some of these aspie communities already exist completely unintentionally IRL due to their careers. Certain careers overwhelmingly attract aspies - I know there is at least one town in England where they do codebreaking for the government and the overwhelming majority employed there are aspie, either diagnosed or not - as are many of their children. The workplace itself has evolved naturally to accommodate for them, and the community evolved naturally with it.

I'm sure others exist in different fields of work also. Perhaps it's a matter of finding the ones that have already naturally evolved and going to them - rather than trying to set up your own?

For those who just want social groups, at least in most major cities, as far as I am aware, they already exist.


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Greb
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25 Apr 2013, 2:18 am

In my opinion, online communities are about a shared interest. Something you're not gonna find in you usual circles. Here, for example, I can share my ASD experiences and everybody understand what I'm saying. That feels amazing when you're used to explain again and again and again (and again) and there's no way for NTs to understand what you're saying.

But my life is not about talking about autism. This is just a side. I talk about it here, but there's more, of course, as anybody else. And communities in 'real world' are more about chemistry between people, about doing plans together. Liking the same kind of plans outdoors can be much more important for a 'real world' group of friends that understanding autism.

And, as Bryan says, there's a limit about how much you can talk about asperger. Online communities are wonderful, since they allow people that share interest to connect, but I think that they have a different function in our lives that 'real world' groups.


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Ettina
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25 Apr 2013, 11:00 am

Quote:
Even if you disagree with an Aspie community, what's stopping us from forming offline social groups?


In my case it's executive dysfunction. Starting an offline social group is hard. It requires scheduling and keeping track of the schedule, and tracking people down to tell them when the next meeting is, and so forth and so forth. It's taxing even to someone with good executive functions, and for me it's pretty much impossible.



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25 Apr 2013, 11:05 am

briankelley wrote:
Personally I don't get the concept or the feasibility of some kind of autism commune. I don't at this time get the point of wanting to be surrounded by a bunch of people who usually prefer to keep to themselves. I'm not saying this to criticize or shoot down the idea, I just don't get it.

I spent nearly my entire childhood in school with autistic kids. I don't recall it being any kind of utopia paradise. I had friends and I had enemies there. There were kids I liked and kids I hated. I was teased by some and I teased others. There were kids there who were bullies. There were kids there who were crybabies. There were kids there who were annoying. None of us were humming along altogether on the same blissful frequency as I recall.


I respectfully disagree with the concept that Aspies "usually prefer to keep to themselves". What is seen on a regular basis here on WP is that we have literally thousands of members who have suffered from social isolation and/or excusion for years, and were not able to build up social capital. Are there Aspies who want to keep to themselves, I'm sure there are. Are there Aspies who want to meet other Aspies but are limited by logistical and social capital issues, I know for a fact that there are.

Even if Aspies want to keep to themselves, which is all right by me, it would be easier to find common Aspie-friendly goods and services in an area with a much higher density of Aspies, ie, an "Aspie Neighborhood". I'm sure there are Aspies who would be interested in visiting such a place as well.

I'm hesitant to use an artifical example, such as a school in the 1980s(?), to compare to what an Aspie Neighborhood would be like.


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25 Apr 2013, 11:20 am

AgentPalpatine wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
They also realise that realistically, WP is the only sort of community we are ever likely to get.


I respectfully disagree. Even if we're only 1/1,000th of the population (which is far below most studies), that would be enough of a density to at least have Aspie-aligned residences in small areas, and Aspie neighborhoods in larger metro areas.

Even if you disagree with an Aspie community, what's stopping us from forming offline social groups? Many posters have complained of social interaction issues when living in the "NT" world, why not have an hour a week where you communicate with other Aspies?


I'm not sure which part you disagree with. I haven't said an Aspie community wouldn't be nice. What I'm saying is how on earth would we achieve it? How is it realistically possible with the huge amount of barriers in the way? Where is the land going to come from? Which country or countries would it be in? Where is the money coming from? How do you address individuals' commitments [jobs etc.] in geographical areas and make that work with moving all into one place? How do you deal with the fact that many Aspies have problem with change, mental health issues, need their family support (do their NT families come too? And if so, that defeats the whole object), many are vulnerable or fragile etc.? Also, how do you deal with the inevitable complaints about discrimination and equality from NTs about it? There are all sorts of legal problems that could arise.


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25 Apr 2013, 11:21 am

Who cares.



Anomiel
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25 Apr 2013, 11:23 am

What is so wrong with entertaining the thought? If we never dream then nothing would ever be done about anything.



whirlingmind
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25 Apr 2013, 11:26 am

Nothing. I agree dreams are what keep a lot of people going. But OP seems to think it can become a reality, and it's highly doubtful it can.


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AgentPalpatine
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25 Apr 2013, 11:30 am

whirlingmind wrote:
AgentPalpatine wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
They also realise that realistically, WP is the only sort of community we are ever likely to get.


I respectfully disagree. Even if we're only 1/1,000th of the population (which is far below most studies), that would be enough of a density to at least have Aspie-aligned residences in small areas, and Aspie neighborhoods in larger metro areas.

Even if you disagree with an Aspie community, what's stopping us from forming offline social groups? Many posters have complained of social interaction issues when living in the "NT" world, why not have an hour a week where you communicate with other Aspies?


I'm not sure which part you disagree with. I haven't said an Aspie community wouldn't be nice. What I'm saying is how on earth would we achieve it? How is it realistically possible with the huge amount of barriers in the way? Where is the land going to come from? Which country or countries would it be in? Where is the money coming from? How do you address individuals' commitments [jobs etc.] in geographical areas and make that work with moving all into one place? How do you deal with the fact that many Aspies have problem with change, mental health issues, need their family support (do their NT families come too? And if so, that defeats the whole object), many are vulnerable or fragile etc.? Also, how do you deal with the inevitable complaints about discrimination and equality from NTs about it? There are all sorts of legal problems that could arise.


I believe you may be conflating different people's discussions on the matter. As I view the concept, an Aspie community can be something such as a collection of nearby Aspie-friendly residences and Aspie-aligned businesses. The built enviroment would be presumably acquired in the traditional way for whatever jurisdiction that particular Aspie community is located in. Aspies who are interested would presumably make their own arrangements, whatever they might be, with that particular community.

I'd direct you and anyone else interested to the discussions found in the below threads.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt215426.html (Is a AS community Possible?)

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt218974.html (An (Urban) AS Community?)


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Anomiel
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25 Apr 2013, 11:53 am

whirlingmind wrote:
Nothing. I agree dreams are what keep a lot of people going. But OP seems to think it can become a reality, and it's highly doubtful it can.


I agree it might be hard, and I agree with the other points you've made.
I'm pretty sure he know the odds already so there is no need to shoot down his ideas. Just because it would be hard doesn't mean it would be impossible, and I think he's making very careful estimations.
For example, a restaurant catering to aspies? Have you any idea how many much more ridiculous restaurants there already are? He's not talking about world domination here.
No one is going to make someone that doesn't like the idea go there, or keep their (NT)families out.
We're all (and I'm including myself here) thinking too much about what we ourselves want - just because you (or other posters) would not like it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist or that other people wouldn't like it.



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25 Apr 2013, 11:59 am

Agreeing with MathGirl and DonkeyBuster

There are groups out there, if you live near a city center chances are there is an AS meetup group in your area. This is how it starts, people meeting people. Not everyone will get along with everyone else but chances are you will meet someone you share enough interests with to become friends. So even if the group no longer interests you splinter groups or sub-groups are created revolving around different personality types or interests. The people become friends and business contacts outside the group and in your own personal time, thus expanding the autistic web.

A primary challenge seems to be getting people out for the first initial contact. Given the other members in attendance are having a good day, aspie's who do make it out to their first events usually continue to come out.

Kind of like leading a horse to water, heh. A lot of aspies have had bad experiences with socializing, have never experienced what it is like to be amongst other aspies, and thus become shy and anxious at the thought of taking the first step.

Making connections online is also a step to encouraging people to meet IRL and thus organically developing a local community. Skype and G+ groups are also good middle-ground mediums. With the sense of interpersonal community bolstered threads about the development of more organized community ventures may attract more folks interested in that niche topic.

And for those interested in more formal aspie centeres there are people out there right now who are doing this exact thing, literally, they have land and blueprints and everything!


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nessa238
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25 Apr 2013, 12:28 pm

The people with Aspergers I have met were apathetic and wanted spoon-feeding when I ran a support group

They were wrapped up in their own worlds with their own problems and didn't want to look any wider than that most of the time

I'd term them 'hard work' and not on my intellectual level either



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25 Apr 2013, 12:33 pm

AgentPalpatine wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
AgentPalpatine wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
They also realise that realistically, WP is the only sort of community we are ever likely to get.


I respectfully disagree. Even if we're only 1/1,000th of the population (which is far below most studies), that would be enough of a density to at least have Aspie-aligned residences in small areas, and Aspie neighborhoods in larger metro areas.

Even if you disagree with an Aspie community, what's stopping us from forming offline social groups? Many posters have complained of social interaction issues when living in the "NT" world, why not have an hour a week where you communicate with other Aspies?


I'm not sure which part you disagree with. I haven't said an Aspie community wouldn't be nice. What I'm saying is how on earth would we achieve it? How is it realistically possible with the huge amount of barriers in the way? Where is the land going to come from? Which country or countries would it be in? Where is the money coming from? How do you address individuals' commitments [jobs etc.] in geographical areas and make that work with moving all into one place? How do you deal with the fact that many Aspies have problem with change, mental health issues, need their family support (do their NT families come too? And if so, that defeats the whole object), many are vulnerable or fragile etc.? Also, how do you deal with the inevitable complaints about discrimination and equality from NTs about it? There are all sorts of legal problems that could arise.


I believe you may be conflating different people's discussions on the matter. As I view the concept, an Aspie community can be something such as a collection of nearby Aspie-friendly residences and Aspie-aligned businesses. The built enviroment would be presumably acquired in the traditional way for whatever jurisdiction that particular Aspie community is located in. Aspies who are interested would presumably make their own arrangements, whatever they might be, with that particular community.

I'd direct you and anyone else interested to the discussions found in the below threads.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt215426.html (Is a AS community Possible?)

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt218974.html (An (Urban) AS Community?)


I haven't read any previous threads on the subject nor in particular anyone else's views. I have my own views, and have not conflated anyone's ideas or opinions, I just typed what was in my head. If you think it can be achieved good luck to you, I just don't think it can.


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25 Apr 2013, 12:37 pm

Anomiel wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
Nothing. I agree dreams are what keep a lot of people going. But OP seems to think it can become a reality, and it's highly doubtful it can.


I agree it might be hard, and I agree with the other points you've made.
I'm pretty sure he know the odds already so there is no need to shoot down his ideas. Just because it would be hard doesn't mean it would be impossible, and I think he's making very careful estimations.
For example, a restaurant catering to aspies? Have you any idea how many much more ridiculous restaurants there already are? He's not talking about world domination here.
No one is going to make someone that doesn't like the idea go there, or keep their (NT)families out.
We're all (and I'm including myself here) thinking too much about what we ourselves want - just because you (or other posters) would not like it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist or that other people wouldn't like it.


You are very over-sensitive Anomiel. I didn't shoot down his ideas, I am not imbuing my response with any emotion either, I am just stating clear reasons that I don't believe it is possible. You must stop this over-dramatising my responses this way, or thinking you know my motivation for my opinions. You don't, and you are being unnecessarily defensive. We all have our own opinions and we are all entitled to post them.

For sure, if he wants to open an Aspie restaurant why not. Legally though, he would be unable to keep NTs out, so like I said, defeats the object. As to the other stuff you said, it's nothing that as other posters have pointed out isn't already available due to places like Silicon Valley for instance.

You also clearly haven't read my other posts clearly. I have not said "I wouldn't like it". I have not expressed an opinion either way. Again, you are making erroneous presumptions.


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25 Apr 2013, 12:53 pm

whirlingmind wrote:
For sure, if he wants to open an Aspie restaurant why not. Legally though, he would be unable to keep NTs out, so like I said, defeats the object. As to the other stuff you said, it's nothing that as other posters have pointed out isn't already available due to places like Silicon Valley for instance.


For the record, and I'm putting this out for reference purporses, I have never said anything about keeping NTs out of an Aspie Resturant. On the contrary, I would view such an establishment, among many other things, as a cultural outreach center, open to all interested parties, at least those willing to pay for the food.

For that matter, I don't think I said I'm opening one myself, through I can understand how WPers would read it as such.


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