Page 2 of 2 [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

BlueMax
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,285

02 May 2013, 10:24 am

Original Post(er)

That's you. ;)

Popsicle wrote:
I'm noticing a trend in which NTs come onto this forum and ask for relationship advice but then don't really seem to want it, or argue with everything people suggest. Especially if it's advice from another NT.

I'd say most all humans do it... they want to do things their way and really just look for the encouragement to do so, and really get riled up by anyone who dares to say they're wrong.

...I'd like to think we aspies do that less... but that might just be wishful thinking. ;)



Teebie
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 52
Location: United Kingdom

02 May 2013, 10:45 am

Hi Popsicle,
thank you for your responses, they seem measured and thoughtful and I really do value them. I came here imagining it would be more a discussion forum for people in my position and was delighted to find some AS responses as well. I was trying to make it clear that the AS input was just as valuable as the NT. Prob didn't get that across so apologies. Anyway, all advice and insights from whatever quarter most welcome

As for taking/arguing with advice - shan't do that! As in life generally I will take on board what people say, if i think it is applicable or helpful to my situation then that's great. If not, well there's no point in arguing as it might work for someone else. Might ask questions though, just have to make sure they sound like questions and not quibbling :)

As for the various suggestions of other diagnoses that might be contributing to the situation, I've looked them all up and I don't think he falls into those categories. As for OCD, well there may be elements of that (think I've read that it can go with Aspergers?) but I wouldn't say it was extreme.

I have to keep reminding myself that he is a good and decent man. The man I see in the current shut-down mode is hard to relate to and this state seems to enhance his 'flight mode'. I suppose I just have to persist in the face of his current negativity and hope against hope that i can get the man i married back.



Kjas
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,059
Location: the place I'm from doesn't exist anymore

02 May 2013, 5:16 pm

Teebie wrote:
Hi everyone, thank you - apart from anything else, talking to others to get a perspective and knowing I'm not alone does help. And the fact that there are AS on here who can give me glimpses from the inside is precious.

One quick question (being new here and to forums in general) what's OP?! If it refers to me and my post, I'm in the UK so there may be a time difference issue in my responses :)

I have tried giving him space (apart from anything else, he works away two weeks out of four - which also stresses him although I have tried to help make that as managable as possible) and up until monday we were doing things together again, working on the house and preparing a song to perform at a regular wednesday club I attend. That didn't happen. All day yesterday he spent pick pick picking at everythign I said and did, watching me so that if felt as though he was willing me to fail. How can I make headway when I am given no space? He says this has been going on for years. for him it has but he has never been able to explain to me why he feels as he does and it's only the past month I have started to read about and get a handle on the Aspergers thing. So I'm at the beginning of my learning and I think I've come quite a way. Reading all that has explained so much of what has happened between us in the past but I need time to integrate that new knowledge into our present and he says I have already had more time than he can afford to give.

last night he did one last pick pick and I reached a cracking point and snapped at him. This morning he is barely talking to me. I think I am losing him and I think that will be disastrous for both of us, but particularly him.

I desperately regret snapping but there seems to be no space for me in this situation. I do get on and do my own things, I have a whole life alongside my life with him, but feeling like this it gets harder and harder to keep on with it.


Uh oh.
Ok here is where it kind of gets tricky. He still doesn't feel safe right now, so he is trying to control his environment.

Unfortunately right now, that includes *you* as part of his environment! (Which is not good. Or acceptable)

He is probably not trying to criticise you, he is probably still trying to correct you in order to help you (yes our minds work in strange ways, but you already knew that) and also probably trying to control his environment more than usual since the last meltdown.

This is why you need to sit down and discuss with him what he needs from the environment, and what he needs from you, in order to function well. Some of the things he may ask for, may not be possible. Others might be surprisingly simple. But you also need to make it clear that he *can't* micromanage you, the way he does his things. Keep it calm and gentle. Some of the more outlandish requests a compromise may be required.


_________________
Diagnostic Tools and Resources for Women with AS: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt211004.html


Teebie
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 52
Location: United Kingdom

03 May 2013, 3:29 am

Thank you kjas

Yes, he is trying to correct me in order to help me, i know that intellectually but its hard to detached the emotional reaction - I am working on that as i know it's one of the things he needs from me: a more considered and gentle response in all things.

My biggest problem really is timescale. He says he's given me enough time and needs it sorted NOW; for my part, a lot of that time I had no idea what was going on with him and why he reacts to things the way he does. Once the Aspergers light went on (just a few weeks now) I felt we had a chance - but i can't read all the books, integrate all the knowledge and transform overnight. I need room to make mistakes without them creating a disaster. He says the time for that is past.

Yesterday morning he was ready to walk out. I consider that to be untenable for all of us. I need to find a way to be gentler with him. I know there are aspects of my personality which jar with him. 6 weeks ago I would have said 'that's who i am, you knew that when you married me'. Now I understand where he's coming from and his request is not an imposition - in fact i would like to be a nicer person. I did a lot of self-help on anger last summer (I hadn't even realised that i was angry!) and my relationship with his children has transformed. So I need to move forward and need to keep him onboard while i do so.

He has been pretty shut-down for weeks (peeping out occasionally) and we now seem to be on hold. He said this morning 'don't confuse suppression with acceptance'. I don't. I'm just trying to keep motivated which is why this forum is helping me. So thank you again



Greb
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 May 2012
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 964
Location: Under the sea [level]

03 May 2013, 4:41 am

Teebie wrote:
Thank you kjas

Yes, he is trying to correct me in order to help me, i know that intellectually but its hard to detached the emotional reaction - I am working on that as i know it's one of the things he needs from me: a more considered and gentle response in all things.

My biggest problem really is timescale. He says he's given me enough time and needs it sorted NOW; for my part, a lot of that time I had no idea what was going on with him and why he reacts to things the way he does. Once the Aspergers light went on (just a few weeks now) I felt we had a chance - but i can't read all the books, integrate all the knowledge and transform overnight. I need room to make mistakes without them creating a disaster. He says the time for that is past.


Mmmm... I can understand that.

Aspergers, we try to be very accurate in what we say. When we say something, usually we mean it. Really mean it.

For some reason, NTs statements use to be very 'flexible'. They're full of excuses, small lies, exagerations, inaccuracies, self-deceptions, manipulative distorsions, half-truths, emotional statements, and so. The outcome is when a NT listens to something, he/she filters and reconstructs it trying to recreate the most likely reality behind those words, according to the NT's experience.

The problem is that NTs don't have usually experience with aspergers.

Of course, not having experience is not a big issue. The big issue is that, for example, from my point of view as AS, when I have tried to explain something, usually choosing carefully the words to be very accurate, the NT who listens reformulates all that was listened to adapt it to his/her NT experience.

Imagine you're trying to be very accurate and precise, to mean exaclty what you're saying, and then the other person listens what he/she wants. And you repete it again, trying to be even more accurate and precise, and it happens the same. And again, and again.

And again. Because this 'reformulation system' is a kind of automatic system inside NTs' head, even without being aware of it.

It's frustating. That makes dealing with NTs really hard, sometimes. And that is what makes, for example, that NT psychologists or psychiatrists that try to give advice about asperger use to fail completely.

Why is he telling you that time has passed? Probably he has being trying to be very accurate about what he was saying. Probably he has done that during months, even several years. Though probably you don't remember because you weren't really paying attention at what he was saying, but to the sense you were getting from reinterpreting his words.

Now imagine you have being trying to explain something for months or years, without success, and when you're really exhausted and almost done the other person suddenly says 'ooops, so you had asperger. Ok, fine, now start again, now I'm listening to you'. Then you could you say 'too bad, I've explained enough. No more'. This is how he feels: furious, exhausted, frustated, tired, disappointed, unmotivated.

He has to forgive you. Probably it's unfair, because probably he has being trying to explain it for a long time and you weren't listening until now. I'm sorry, but it's likely that it's your fault.

But no matter it's your fault or not, he must forgive you and start again. You can't keep an inventory of past affronts in a relationship. There's no future this way.


_________________
1 part of Asperger | 1 part of OCD | 2 parts of ADHD / APD / GT-LD / 2e
And finally, another part of secret spices :^)


Teebie
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 52
Location: United Kingdom

03 May 2013, 5:25 am

Thank you. All that you say is painfully true and accurate, Greb. In many respects its as if you are speaking his words. I think he will be able to forgive me if I can show him that I get it and if that intellectual process translates into action - consistent action, no slips. He wants that now, at once and that just piles on the pressure and makes mis-steps more likely - and yes, I know in a way I've brought this on myself. I am turning myself inside out trying to get to grips with this and engaging in this forum is (a painful but helpful) part of that.

My thought processes are deeply metaphorical which is probably why your comments about speaking and listening ring true. He says something and if it doesn't make sense straight away, I probably do subconsciously 're-script' but how to resolve this (quickly!) is difficult. I need to hear more clearly and more literally and speak in the same way.

Sorry, don't want to ramble and impose on people's patience but this is so helpful.



Greb
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 May 2012
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 964
Location: Under the sea [level]

03 May 2013, 5:43 am

Well, forgiveness is really a hard thing. For everybody, NT or AS.

The good thing is that it's a very similar experience both in NT and ASs. Unless other life aspects, we deal with forgiveness in the same (hard) way that NTs do.

This is good, since here you can trust in your own experience.


_________________
1 part of Asperger | 1 part of OCD | 2 parts of ADHD / APD / GT-LD / 2e
And finally, another part of secret spices :^)


Nonperson
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,258

03 May 2013, 11:13 am

Teebie wrote:
Now I understand that it wasn't a trivial thing to him - I allowed myself to get stressed and reacted in a way that seems to have sent him over the edge. None of the good stuff of the past few weeks seems to weigh in the scales for him. He says I have destroyed all that. He says 'trying' isn't enough, I have to succeed. I struggled with these absolutes.

I don't know how these forums work but please understand, I love this man and don't want to bad-mouth him or have anyone else say anythig against him. I just need help in working out where to go from here.
Teebie


Well, I don't know what you did, but things that don't seem serious to everyone else can sometimes be very serious to us. Surely you have some non- negotiables yourself (maybe abuse, or cheating?) and it may just be that serious a betrayal to him. If you really broke his trust then it's too late, but what you can do is understand the importance of it, apologize sincerely, and commit yourself to avoiding that thing in the future.
Now, I'm saying this on the assumption that he just has one or two things taht he absolutely can't cope with, and he's expressed this to you before. On the other hand, if he keeps moving the goalposts, and acting as though every little thing you do is a major betrayal, he's being manipulative himself and you shouldn't tolerate that, autism or no autism. At best, that would be immature and he would need to learn better ways to express himself. It's hard to tell from what you said whether you really crossed some line and did something he legitimately can't deal with, or whether he's just in the habit of throwing a tantrum when he doesn't get his way.