Very Harsh!

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ruveyn
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08 May 2013, 8:22 am

visagrunt wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Establishing negligence to have a degree that is criminal is very difficult. Especially with an underage person. A person under the age of 18 cannot be presumed to have the judgment avoid criminally negligent acts. I thin it was silly to bring criminal charges in this case. There was no criminal intent. At worst is was a case of property damage and that can be actionable as a tort, NOT a felony.

ruveyn

Au contraire, it's not difficult in the least. There is an entire corpus of the Common Law dedicated to the application of the principle that recklessness can be criminal.

As for her being a child of tender years, a child can be assessed against the conduct of a reasonably prudent child. The failure to obtain permission to conduct this experiment is potentially more reckless when undertaken by a child than by an adult, since children are more often required to seek permission and supervision for their activities than adults.

As for your claim that, "there was no criminal intent," you are most certainly wrong as a general principle. Criminal intent is not the conscious decision to commit a crime. Criminal intent is the intent to perform an act that happens to be criminal.

The "criminally negligent" people are those who made the chemicals available to this kid.

If I were on the jury, I would vote for not convicted if the charge were a felony.

BTW, there is no such thing as a "prudent child". One of the defining characteristics of childhood is lack of prudence. Prudence is what we teach children in order to turn them into grown-ups.

ruveyn

eric76
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08 May 2013, 9:26 am

Last edited by eric76 on 08 May 2013, 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

visagrunt
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08 May 2013, 11:56 am

ruveyn wrote:

The "criminally negligent" people are those who made the chemicals available to this kid.

I don't dispute that they may well be negligent, in addition.

Quote:

If I were on the jury, I would vote for not convicted if the charge were a felony.

A textbook example of the true meaning of prejudice--to judge before hearing the evidence.

Quote:

BTW, there is no such thing as a "prudent child". One of the defining characteristics of childhood is lack of prudence. Prudence is what we teach children in order to turn them into grown-ups.

ruveyn

You are quite, quite wrong. Children can be found to be negligent, and their conduct is measured against the conduct expected of a child of similar age, intelligence and experience. Prudence is not a binary state that becomes active on a person's 18th birthday. It develops gradually.

If you would like case law on the subject, I will be happy to oblige.

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BuyerBeware
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08 May 2013, 12:37 pm

The fact, in this time and in this place, is that one should do nothing.

Ask no questions. Take no risks. Wonder nothing, and explore nothing. Simply do the homework, fill out the worksheets, regurgitate the desired information when requested, and try to stay out of sight.

Because to err in criminal.

That's a shame, but that's how it is.

Where do I go to apply for Release???

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visagrunt
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08 May 2013, 3:16 pm

Nonsense.

All that is required is the development and the exercise of good judgement. There are times when questions are appropriate, and times when they are not. There are certain questions that are appropriate and others that are not. Development of judgement should lead a person to an understanding of where those lines lie, and the consequences of crossing them.

Similarly, risks should be taken, but should be taken critically. Understand risk and mitigate risk.

Trying to run before you can walk is foolish. Asking for walking lessons so that you can run sooner is smart.

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xenon13
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08 May 2013, 4:41 pm

Direct action against the scum responsible for the arrest is something that should take place.

ruveyn
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08 May 2013, 6:27 pm

xenon13 wrote:

Direct action against the scum responsible for the arrest is something that should take place.

are you advocating violent action?

xenon13
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09 May 2013, 12:26 am

They should simply make their lives a Hell... they should occupy their offices, shut off access to the building, follow them around if necessary, remind them of their crimes... and remind everyone else that these people are at large and have yet to be removed from office.

We had lots of direct action here last year but I think in this case the template should be "Homer: Bad Man" from the Simpsons and it would be good to have the news helicopter buzz over these people's places of residence.

visagrunt
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09 May 2013, 9:49 am

That is the most irresponsible, counterproductive and just plain stupid idea I have seen expressed here in quite some time. And for PPR, that's saying something.

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Sweetleaf
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09 May 2013, 10:00 am

That is plain ridiculous and...

Quote:

Earlier this year, a five-year-old Pennsylvania girl was suspended from kindergarten after she told another girl she was going to shoot her with a Hello Kitty toy gun that blows soapy bubbles. School officials told the girl’s parents she had made a terrorist threat.

seriously? a terrorist threat? :roll:

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xenon13
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09 May 2013, 10:42 am

Irresponsible? These people ruin lives without a second thought and that they are allowed to walk about as if nothing has happened shows consent by the community to that. These people have a responsibility and they are abusing it massively and are not being held to account for that. Direct action!

There was a case out in Virginia about a 19 year old with Asperger Syndrome and black by the way, which I think was decisive in triggering the harassment he was subject to by police, during the trial against his self-defence his people said that in Virginia resisting unlawful arrest is completely legal and any reasonable person could conclude that the arrest was unlawful but the idiot judge said black is white and that it was not unlawful just so they could go ahead with the lynch party. That judge should get direct action too.

AgentPalpatine
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15 May 2013, 7:00 pm

It should be noted that the charges have been withdrawn. There is still the issue of school administrative disiplinary action.

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/05/15/charges- ... xperiment/

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Dox47
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15 May 2013, 10:40 pm

visagrunt wrote:

That is the most irresponsible, counterproductive and just plain stupid idea I have seen expressed here in quite some time. And for PPR, that's saying something.

...and this isn't even PPR... :lol:

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xenon13
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16 May 2013, 1:12 am

Well, if not for people registering their outrage it never would have happened. So a less extreme version of what I was suggesting solved the problem.

hartzofspace
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16 May 2013, 12:47 pm

AgentPalpatine wrote:

It should be noted that the charges have been withdrawn. There is still the issue of school administrative disiplinary action.

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/05/15/charges- ... xperiment/

Thank you for posting that update. I am so happy that the entire world hasn't lost their collective minds, and that there are still fair minded and reasonable people out there!

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auntblabby
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16 May 2013, 10:12 pm

there is a shortage of common sense out there, and this is coming from somebody not known for his common sense!

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