Stephen Hawking joins academic boycott of Israel

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thomas81
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09 May 2013, 2:34 pm

Tequila wrote:

Aside from everything else, one wonders how well he actually is - remember, he's quite ill and he's in his early seventies, as well as the heavy suggestion that he's suffered from some very questionable treatment from former partners that he refuses to talk about (remember the incident where his former wife and carer deliberately left him out in the baking hot sun for hours?)

Or perhaps he has only recently educated himself on the intracacies of Arab-Israeli politics, did you consider that?
Tequila wrote:
Oh, and the Israelis are working on the cure for his present medical ailment. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

Sure, I suppose since I pursued a diagnosis for Asperger's syndrome using the same logic that makes me a nazi supporter?


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thomas81
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09 May 2013, 2:36 pm

5 reasons why Hawking is doing the right thing:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 99815.html


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09 May 2013, 5:16 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Not slithering politicians that have no skill in doing anything other than manipulating opinion polls and taking advantage of electorate disenfranchisement.


Ummm....under a Westminster parlimentry system, opinion polls have no immediate impact, the only poll that matters is the one on election day (the election). And what disenfranchisement are you refering to? Is there a provision in UK voting law that disenfranchises adult voters?


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09 May 2013, 10:48 pm

Tequila wrote:
I read a very interesting article that actually analysed the entire effect of the BDS ovement in the States and it came to very little.

As for pacifist Jews and good-hearted Palliea living in peace - look what happenes to Juliano Mer.



There are laws against BDS in the United States... any boycott of Israel is subject to all sorts of penalties that do not apply to boycotts of any other country.



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10 May 2013, 4:42 pm

Quote:
Outrage over disgusting 'cripple Stephen Hawking' jokes after he joins boycott of Israel

WORLD renowned theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking has faced a barrage of vile abuse today from people furious over his boycott of Israel.

Published: Wed, May 8, 2013

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/397 ... -of-Israel

...Reacting angrily to the Professor's decision to join the academic boycott, pro-Israeli users voiced their outrage on social media sites.

“The anti-Semite Stephen Hawking can’t even wipe his own a**," one sick user posted.

“He should die already!," another said, while one user said Professor Hawking – widely considered one of the most intelligent men in the world today – is “also crippled in the head.”

“Someone should release the hand brake when he’s on a hill," another vile post read.

Disgusted users condemned the revolting abuse, describing it as a "festival of hate."...



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10 May 2013, 5:10 pm

xenon13 wrote:
There are laws against BDS in the United States... any boycott of Israel is subject to all sorts of penalties that do not apply to boycotts of any other country.


Xenon13, could you please cite to the referenced "laws against BDS"?

I am aware of 26 USC 999, but that pertains to compliance with a foreign country's boycott demands, not to what you appear to be referencing above.


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11 May 2013, 9:31 am

Mukherjee80 wrote:
Quote:
Outrage over disgusting 'cripple Stephen Hawking' jokes after he joins boycott of Israel

WORLD renowned theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking has faced a barrage of vile abuse today from people furious over his boycott of Israel.

Published: Wed, May 8, 2013

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/397 ... -of-Israel

...Reacting angrily to the Professor's decision to join the academic boycott, pro-Israeli users voiced their outrage on social media sites.

“The anti-Semite Stephen Hawking can’t even wipe his own a**," one sick user posted.

“He should die already!," another said, while one user said Professor Hawking – widely considered one of the most intelligent men in the world today – is “also crippled in the head.”

“Someone should release the hand brake when he’s on a hill," another vile post read.

Disgusted users condemned the revolting abuse, describing it as a "festival of hate."...


God, that irks me. I mean, I think that Israel has a right to exist (And, usually, is politically expedient for us, having an ally in the region), but I certainly don't condone a great many of their actions. Speaking out against the abuse inflicted on the Palestinian people is the man's right, is very brave, and is politically smart. Oppressing a populace based on race or religion always radicalizes them.



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11 May 2013, 9:47 am

fueledbycoffee wrote:

God, that irks me. I mean, I think that Israel has a right to exist (And, usually, is politically expedient for us, having an ally in the region), but I certainly don't condone a great many of their actions. Speaking out against the abuse inflicted on the Palestinian people is the man's right, is very brave, and is politically smart. Oppressing a populace based on race or religion always radicalizes them.


You are right. The Jews in Israel should stop fighting. They will all be killed or dispersed in under a year and the "problem" will be "solved" Then the Palestinians will start cutting each other's throats which is their natural inclination.

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11 May 2013, 10:06 am

Actually, the issue I'm most concerned about is the non-prosecution of those who settle in areas that are Palestinian by treaty. After all, why should the Palestinians trust and work with someone who keeps trying to steal their land.

Second, it shouldn't be about Jew and Muslim. It's about Israel. The nation contains both religions, and must be prepared to go bat for both, to protect the rights of both. However, preferential status has long been granted to Jews. Sure, they're a minority. So were the Afrikaaners. Hey, white Afrikaaners have totally been killed to the last man for working with the blacks, eh? Actually, they continue to hold a strong position in the country. The same could be said for the Jews, if the diplomacy were approached the right way. Unfortunately, continuing to marginalize Muslims simply pushes them further and further into the arms of radicals. What we can learn from this is that diplomacy ca lead to a modern nation for both parties, whereas continuing to refuse to talk empowers the rebels. When a government is overthrown militarily (As will, eventually, be the case for Israel, if it continues to refuse to talk), the situation for the overthrown party/minority/ethnic group is much worse. Look at the plight of White Rhodesians under Mugabe. The reason for the is that the diplomat is a statesman, the general is a strong man. By encouraging the Jews and Palestinians to field the best diplomats rather than the best soldiers, they can build a great nation for both.

And yes, appropriate response by the Israeli Defense Force must be permissible. However, in almost every retaliation for the death of a few Jews, enormous numbers of Muslim civilians are slain. This is not appropriate response. Appropriate response would be highly trained strike teams targeting confirmed terrorists and soldiers with sensitivity training.

You are permitted to hold whatever views you want, friend, but being uncompromising is no way to build a nation. It can only build a warzone.



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11 May 2013, 10:18 am

thomas81 wrote:
Increasingly Israel is losing the oxygen of moral backing among intellectual heavyweights. A win for the Palestinians and for the boycott Israel campaign.
The Guardian wrote:
Stephen Hawking joins academic boycott of Israel

Physicist pulls out of conference hosted by president Shimon Peres in protest at treatment of Palestinians

....his attitude to Israel appears to have hardened. In 2009, Hawking denounced Israel's three-week attack on Gaza, telling Riz Khan on Al-Jazeera that Israel's response to rocket fire from Gaza was "plain out of proportion … The situation is like that of South Africa before 1990 and cannot continue."



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ma ... ic-boycott


Boycotting Israel because Stephen Hawking says so, is a grade A example of the argument from authority fallacy. Intelligent people have held unintelligible political views before. There are people who are equally intelligent who claim that there never was a Holocaust, that the Earth was created in six days and that extreterrestrial beings have visited us many times.

Israel is the most democratic country in the middle east. Some people just can't accept that a small capitalist country surrounded by theocracies and socialist regimes has a much higher standard of living.

Furthermore, I find it funny that nobody wants to boycott China, despite the fact that 10 000 people are executed there every year and that the uyghur people are treated much worse than the Palestinians. The very same people who support an embargo of Israel, also oppose the US embargo of Cuba--the only country on the western hemisphere that doesn't hold free elections.

Before we discuss the human rights in Israel, we need to discuss what Hamas does to the people. Hamas imprison people because they're homosexual, they carry out extrajudicial killings and they're responsible for a complete lack of freedom of speech on Gaza. And like a little brat who throws rocks at people, they violate the truce over and over again by all of a sudden launching fajr missiles at Israeli civilians.

Since Israel is a free market economy, a boycott hits the people and not the politicians.



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11 May 2013, 10:38 am

Kurgan wrote:
Furthermore, I find it funny that nobody wants to boycott China, despite the fact that 10 000 people are executed there every year and that the uyghur people are treated much worse than the Palestinians. The very same people who support an embargo of Israel, also oppose the US embargo of Cuba--the only country on the western hemisphere that doesn't hold free elections.


A lot of people have called for investigations into China. The problem with this is that... well, China's not Israel. Israel is a money sink. They're largely dependent on the United States, although less so than they used to be. However, China... we're dependent on them, as is a large portion of the West. We don't like it, but it's not smart to piss off the big dog.

Kurgan wrote:
Before we discuss the human rights in Israel, we need to discuss what Hamas does to the people. Hamas imprison people because they're homosexual, they carry out extrajudicial killings and they're responsible for a complete lack of freedom of speech on Gaza. And like a little brat who throws rocks at people, they violate the truce over and over again by all of a sudden launching fajr missiles at Israeli civilians.


In order for any discussion to be successful, both parties have to recognize Hamas as a terrorist organization. Once this happens, however, the Jewish government has to take a philosophical attitude towards it. They can't blame the PA for Hamas's actions, and they can't lob rockets of their own back. Hamas must be handled like any criminal organization. Unless, of course, the PA is revealed to be ordering Hamas to conduct it's operations.

Quote:
Since Israel is a free market economy, a boycott hits the people and not the politicians.


Sadly, yes. This is where I agree with you. Completely cutting off businesses from doing their thing does not help. I mentioned Rhodesia before. Prior to Mugabe, there was a possibility that in the future, a South African solution could be achieved. After we cut them off, it weakened them to the point where they could be backed into a corner and overtaken. By maintaining the power of the Israeli economy and government with restrictions, we can push them to do what we want while keeping them in the game.



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11 May 2013, 10:49 am

fueledbycoffee wrote:
A lot of people have called for investigations into China. The problem with this is that... well, China's not Israel. Israel is a money sink. They're largely dependent on the United States, although less so than they used to be. However, China... we're dependent on them, as is a large portion of the West. We don't like it, but it's not smart to piss off the big dog.


People seems to be forgetting that China is dependent on us as well--and that China can only make money by us as long as western coorporations doesn't move to India instead.

In 2012, US aid only accounted for 1.5% of the Israeli GDP--and the aid is mainly used for military purposes so that the small country can defend itself.

Quote:
In order for any discussion to be successful, both parties have to recognize Hamas as a terrorist organization.


Not necessarily. One can put pressure on a government without labeling them as a terrorist organization.

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Since Israel is a free market economy, a boycott hits the people and not the politicians.


Quote:
Sadly, yes. This is where I agree with you. Completely cutting off businesses from doing their thing does not help. I mentioned Rhodesia before. Prior to Mugabe, there was a possibility that in the future, a South African solution could be achieved. After we cut them off, it weakened them to the point where they could be backed into a corner and overtaken. By maintaining the power of the Israeli economy and government with restrictions, we can push them to do what we want while keeping them in the game.


I think this is easier said than done. Remember that the Israeli politicans are elected by the Israeli people--and that the Israelis have access to an (almost) free press and the internet, which means that they can make up their own minds.

A weakened Israel can make a cocky Hamas think that they'll stand a chance this time and make Hamas become more aggressive. Furthermore, it can make Iran or Syria do something extremely stupid.



thomas81
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11 May 2013, 11:04 am

Kurgan wrote:

Boycotting Israel because Stephen Hawking says so, is a grade A example of the argument from authority fallacy. Intelligent people have held unintelligible political views before. There are people who are equally intelligent who claim that there never was a Holocaust, that the Earth was created in six days and that extreterrestrial beings have visited us many times.

Nobody ever used Hawkings joining the boycott as their sole reason.For them it just adds weight to the already overburgeoning tanker of reasons to oppose Israel's hegemony in the region.

Kurgan wrote:

Israel is the most democratic country in the middle east. Some people just can't accept that a small capitalist country surrounded by theocracies and socialist regimes has a much higher standard of living.

You honestly think that is their beef?

Wrong. Many people, with an unbiased perspective of histroy cannot accept the circumstances in which Israel came into existance and the way its current behaviour curtails Palestinians from their rightful homes and resources.
Kurgan wrote:
Furthermore, I find it funny that nobody wants to boycott China, despite the fact that 10 000 people are executed there every year and that the uyghur people are treated much worse than the Palestinians. The very same people who support an embargo of Israel, also oppose the US embargo of Cuba--the only country on the western hemisphere that doesn't hold free elections.

Rubbish. A lot of people are boycotting and protesting against China because of its relationship with Tibet.

The reason Israel recieves comparitively more focus is that it is a military complex operating an ongoing besiegement of a dispossesed and assymetrically disadvantaged population.
Kurgan wrote:
Before we discuss the human rights in Israel, we need to discuss what Hamas does to the people. Hamas imprison people because they're homosexual, they carry out extrajudicial killings and they're responsible for a complete lack of freedom of speech on Gaza. And like a little brat who throws rocks at people, they violate the truce over and over again by all of a sudden launching fajr missiles at Israeli civilians.

I seem to recall the last round of hostilities was provoked when the Israeli air force launched a preemptive bombing against the military leader of Hamas and later said that breaking the peace was 'worth it' in order to get him.
Kurgan wrote:
Since Israel is a free market economy, a boycott hits the people and not the politicians.

You do not want the Palestinians or their supporters to fight back with either violence or economic measures, what do you expect them to do?

Also I'm old enough to remember that boycotts did a pretty good job of undermining the Apartheid regime.


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11 May 2013, 11:40 am

thomas81 wrote:
Nobody ever used Hawkings joining the boycott as their sole reason.For them it just adds weight to the already overburgeoning tanker of reasons to oppose Israel's hegemony in the region.


The proven rise of antisemitism in our century and the fact that many prominent computer scientists are Israelis is a nice counterweight, then.

Quote:
You honestly think that is their beef?


To a certain degree, yes. Allthough many probably have antisemitic reasons as well, which explains why they don't give a damn about the situation in North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Syria, Zimbabwe or Kazahkstan.

Quote:
Wrong. Many people, with an unbiased perspective of histroy cannot accept the circumstances in which Israel came into existance and the way its current behaviour curtails Palestinians from their rightful homes and resources.


Most historians agree that Israel did indeed exist before it was occupied by the Romans, the Brits and the Ottomans. Furthermore, they also seem to agree that Palestine never existed and that Palestinian nationalism arose in the late 60's. The Ottomans simply regarded the area as a southern part of Syria.

All Palestinians driven from their homes by force, were given the opportunity to move back in 1949. The same can't be said about the jews driven from their homes in the Arab countries, the five million hindus driven from their homes in Pakistan or the five million muslims driven from their homes in India. But I guess how Pakistan came to exist is irrelevant, as neither the jews nor the capitalists are responsible for it.

Kurgan wrote:
Rubbish. A lot of people are boycotting and protesting against China because of its relationship with Tibet.


http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=e ... t+china%22

http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=e ... nezuela%22

http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=e ... t+burma%22

http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=e ... tt+laos%22

http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=e ... h+korea%22


Quote:
The reason Israel recieves comparitively more focus is that it is a military complex operating an ongoing besiegement of a dispossesed and assymetrically disadvantaged population.


So what you're saying is that the Uyghurs and the Tibetans stand a military chance against China, or that the Kurds aren't disadvantaged against the Iranian government?

Quote:
I seem to recall the last round of hostilities was provoked when the Israeli air force launched a preemptive bombing against the military leader of Hamas and later said that breaking the peace was 'worth it' in order to get him.


As always, Hamas violated the last ceasefire in february by launching more rockets.

Kurgan wrote:
You do not want the Palestinians or their supporters to fight back with either violence or economic measures, what do you expect them to do?


What the Romanians did to the communists the Palestinians should do to Hamas. Again: The Israeli civilians (the ones who'd get harmed by economic sanctions) aren't the ones who wreck havock on Palestinian territories.

Quote:
Also I'm old enough to remember that boycotts did a pretty good job of undermining the Apartheid regime.


Israel is not an Apartheid regime. This is a common straw man argument from the modern day antisemitist movement. If you wonder why the Palestinian territories have a significantly lower standard of living than Israel, blame PLO and Hamas. Hamas have the choice of whether or not to use the aid the receive on welfare and infrastructure--or to use them on missiles and luxury cars to the politicians. The seem to prefer the latter, though.

Israel has free elections, more freedom of speech than any of it's neighbors, better healthcare than most European countries and equal rights for both muslims and jews. The Apartheid regime was not a democracy as less than ten percent of the adult population (the white ones) could actually vote.

Furthermore, Israel was the first country in the middle east to abolish the death penalty. Lastly, the apartheid regime didn't have a free market to the same extent as Israel does; nor do the Palestinian territories--so economic sanctions against Palestine would actually cripple Hamas before crippling the people.



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11 May 2013, 12:31 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Wrong. Many people, with an unbiased perspective of histroy cannot accept the circumstances in which Israel came into existance and the way its current behaviour curtails Palestinians from their rightful homes and resources.


In your view...Who, pray tell, are these demigods with said "unbiased perspective of histroy (sic)" holding such views? Not even in a book like The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy do the authors come even close to anything like what you're suggesting.


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