Inventor of ADHD says ADHD is a fictitious disease

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Verdandi
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19 May 2013, 6:43 pm

Eloa wrote:
I think that "constructed" is a good interpretation of his words into English.
I also think that ADHD is a severe problem.
I do not have ADHD, but I have severe executive dysfunction and executive dysfunction is also mentioned as a problem in ADHD.
I think that ADHD can severly impact a person's life.
I still do not understand his statement.


I don't understand his statement, I only understand what others have said about his statement.



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19 May 2013, 10:55 pm

Joe90 wrote:
He should have called it ''Eisenberg's Syndrome/Disorder'', just like Hans Aspoerger named whatever Asperger's Syndrome would be abbreviated as if it wasn't named after it's discoverer.

I often wish AS didn't have a name like that because it's always felt like I had another second name. I think I would be happier if AS was originally named ''Social and Emotional Deficit Disorder'' (SEDD) or something like that, sorry it's just an example, no need to get offended or argumentative if you do. I just think that fits me better because my social awkwardness and the way I think and feel about things affect my life the most, along with the rest of the symptoms. But ADHD has other symptoms too, it's not just about being hyper and that's it.


It doesn't make too much sense naming AS after one of their symptoms that, besides, doesn't necessarily happen in 100% cases.

It would be as naming tumours as 'Weight lost disorder'.

Fern wrote:
My major qualm with ADHD is that the DSM diagnosis criteria are nebulous and are extremely subjective compared to other disorder diagnoses. I myself suffered as a kid because of this, getting put on and off medications that didn't help, since I didn't have it.... sustaining kidney injuries (because btw, ritalin is REALLY BAD for people with congenital kidney disease).

The worst part is that as a kid, I found it very hard to convince the adults around me that I didn't have that kind of problem. I knew my ADHD diagnosis was wrong because I had no trouble paying attention. I actually was better at it than most kids my age. Now that I'm older I've come to realize that adults confused my ASD gaze-avoidance and hand fiddling as signs of not paying attention, when in fact I was all ears, and could often repeat back paragraphs verbatim.

You live and you learn though.I am not really in a position to argue the disease's existence, however I do think the criteria are bs


At least they knew you had a problem, though it was not correctly identified.

When I was young, in my country, for most of the people, neurological problems had basically only two diagnosis: sane and crazy. When ADHD learning dissabilities started to appear, I found very hard to convince my family that I was not being lazy and indolent. Indeed, I never was able to.


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19 May 2013, 11:48 pm

Funny how someone on their deathbed claims something like this (even if he did come up with the diagnosis), yet all medical evidence and cases prove that it most certainly does exist.

I guess he wasn't paying attention to real medical facts all this time. :lol:


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chlov
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20 May 2013, 7:31 am

The fact is, a lot of kids were (still are at times) wrongly diagnosed with ADHD and put on meds because they were lively.
Needless to say, those with wrongly diagnosed ADHD stopped being hyper and distracted as they grew up, because, most kids seem to be hyper and distracted during childhood. It's rather common.

I'm diagnosed with ADHD since the age of 6, and I still have poor time managament, severe issues with organiation, and have to take meds to focus on things and stop my constant talking.
So I actually have ADHD, I guess?

Also, diagnoses can be a little difficult at times, expecially if a condition like AS or ODD is co-morbid.

Psychiatrists never really knew if I had ADHD-C or ADHD-PI with some symptoms from AS or ODD that made me more impulsive.
Because, I have meltdowns very often , but this may be because of ODD.

The hyperactivity symptom I seem to share is talking non-stop, also the fact that I squirm in my seat and I fidget, but squirming and fidgetting may just be a stim related to AS.

The impuslivity symptoms may be related to ODD, and are probably because of that.

So I guess that I could have ADHD-C+ODD+AS, or ADHD-PI (maybe with just a few hyperactivity symptoms)+AS+ODD (that makes me more impulsive).
Shrinks have told me that it's a bit difficult to distinguish them at this point.



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07 Oct 2013, 2:07 am

This article is wrong.
Eisenberg is NOT the inventor of ADHD.

ADHD is first mentioned in 1775 by Melchior Adam Weikard in his book.

He wrote (translated into english):

"An inattentive person won’t remark anything but will be shallow everywhere. He studies his matters only superficially; his judgements are erroneous and he misconceives the worth of things because he does not spend enough time and patience to search a matter individually or by the piece with the adequate accuracy. Such people only hear half of everything; they memorize or inform only half of it or do it in a messy manner. According to a proverb they generally know a little bit of all and nothing of the whole....They are mostly reckless, often copious considering imprudent projects, but they are also most inconstant in execution. They treat everything in a light manner since they are not attentive enough to feel denigration or disadvantages."

----

Then in March 1902 Sir George Frederick Still held a lecture on ‘some abnormal psychical conditions in children’:

"He described 43 children who had serious problems with sustained attention and self-regulation, who were often aggressive, defiant, resistant to discipline, excessively emotional or passionate, which showed little inhibitory volition, had serious problems with sustained attention and could not learn from the consequences of their actions; though their intellect was normal. He wrote "I would point out that a notable feature in many of these cases of moral defect without general impairment of intellect is a quite abnormal incapacity for sustained attention."

So all that happened is, that ADHD was added in the DSM-II in 1968 und the name "Hyperkinetic Reaction of Childhood".

But ADHD is much older than Eisenberg and known since at least the 17th hundred.

You can read it up here for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... y_disorder

----

ADHD is very often overdiagnosed in children and so came criticised. "Difficult children" were labled with it, eventhough when the problem were somewere else. BUT on the other hand to diagnose an adult(!) correctly with ADHD it takes 12 years. A reason for this is that ADHD is considered a childhood disorder and also many adults loose the hyperactivity part.

I'm seeing psychiatrists since many years and nearly every time I complain: "I can't concentrate" and that since many years actually. I was told: "well it's the depression" or stuff like that. Now I've a new psychiatrist since nearly a year now and he asked me last time: "You are comming to me since a year and everytime you complain that you can't concentrate, do you have ADHD?" I was imediatly: "no", because also for me ADHD was somehow made up and I couldn't really identify with many stories I heard about it. Then I did some little research about it the last 4 weeks and I couldn't identify with everything, but now I think that I've ADHD with autistic tendencies. I've clearly some autistic symptoms BUT my inability to focus correctly is my mainproblem nowadays and NOT my social issues. But I was somehow missdiagnosed, because I couldn't see it myself and also because even many psychiatrists don't understand the entire spectrum of ADHD and it's a whole lot more than just having difficulties with paying attention. Also self-regulation, emotion-regulation, hyperactivity, time managment, organizing, planing ahead and so on are parts of it.


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07 Oct 2013, 2:49 am

What I wanted to add, that I think that even most caregivers underastimate the problems that go along with ADHD, even some medical doctors, because they think: "oh well, that child can't focus on school work, he/she propably whas ADHD." BUT ADHD is A LOT more complex and also with a lot more symptoms to it.
That also explains why it is overdiagnosed in children BUT underdiagnosed in adults, because when an adult comes with sever depression or other conditions to a psychiatrist, just view think about checking for underlying ADHD. But I know out of my own experience, being not able to focus, poor time managment and so on can lead to depression (eventhough I know that also other factors attripued to it). Also ADHD goes along with comorbidities in most cases. Adult ADHD patients have in average(!) 3 psychiatric comorbidities.


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Verdandi
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07 Oct 2013, 3:46 am

Raziel wrote:
ADHD is very often overdiagnosed in children and so came criticised. "Difficult children" were labled with it, eventhough when the problem were somewere else. BUT on the other hand to diagnose an adult(!) correctly with ADHD it takes 12 years. A reason for this is that ADHD is considered a childhood disorder and also many adults loose the hyperactivity part.


That bolded bit is a popular belief, but actual research hasn't found that it is "very often misdiagnosed." It is both underdiagnosed and undertreated in children and adults. The wide misbelief in overdiagnosis probably originates with the way people tend to be extremely critical of parents when things are atypical. Blame the parents for the ADHD behaviors, autistic behaviors, etc.

It is true that a lot of psychiatrists do not understand ADHD any more than they understand autism, so they can propose the idea you have ADHD, but they can't then explain it sufficiently to make the diagnosis make sense.



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07 Oct 2013, 4:13 am

Verdandi wrote:
Raziel wrote:
ADHD is very often overdiagnosed in children and so came criticised. "Difficult children" were labled with it, eventhough when the problem were somewere else. BUT on the other hand to diagnose an adult(!) correctly with ADHD it takes 12 years. A reason for this is that ADHD is considered a childhood disorder and also many adults loose the hyperactivity part.


That bolded bit is a popular belief, but actual research hasn't found that it is "very often misdiagnosed." It is both underdiagnosed and undertreated in children and adults. The wide misbelief in overdiagnosis probably originates with the way people tend to be extremely critical of parents when things are atypical. Blame the parents for the ADHD behaviors, autistic behaviors, etc.

It is true that a lot of psychiatrists do not understand ADHD any more than they understand autism, so they can propose the idea you have ADHD, but they can't then explain it sufficiently to make the diagnosis make sense.


Well I've different views on this.
I listened the last couple of days to some converences and expert talks on ADHD on youtube and even ADHD experts like Russell Barkley noticed that many children get the ADHD too easily and that for a proper evaluation it takes him about 3 hours. But on the other hand in adults we have it the other way around. Adults who didn't get diagnosed as children, just get diagnosed in 10% of the cases in adult life. Also adulecents with ADHD very often underestimate their problems and usually first realise that they have a problem in their late 20s and 30s.
The problem is that many children need a lot of energy, don't listen at school and so on without necessery having ADHD. Also in ADHD it needs time to diagnose it correctly and to sort out other possibilities. There wouldn't be such a high rate on missdiagnoses in psychiatry if all would get the right diagnosis at first try, but usually it takes years and years until the right diagnostic combination is found and to sort out all the other possibilities.
I also still have one "diagnosis in suspicion" from my psychiatrist who isn't clear until now: Bipolar II. Maybe I have, maybe I don't and it's "just" recurent depression. In psychiatry it isn't that easy to sort things out and there are a lot more possibilities why a child doesn't do a task in school than just ADHD.


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31 Dec 2013, 1:44 am

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-drug ... -children/

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26e5PqrCePk#t=1609[/youtube]

http://www.keirsey.com/add_hoax.aspx

We are in the dark ages as far as understanding how these drugs work on children.



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31 Dec 2013, 2:28 am

chlov wrote:
Needless to say, those with wrongly diagnosed ADHD stopped being hyper and distracted as they grew up, because, most kids seem to be hyper and distracted during childhood. It's rather common.

You're forgetting that children with ADHD can grow out of hyperactivity but other symptoms of ADHD remain.

DoodleDoo wrote:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-drugging-of-our-children/

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26e5PqrCePk#t=1609[/youtube]

http://www.keirsey.com/add_hoax.aspx

We are in the dark ages as far as understanding how these drugs work on children.

ADHD is not a hoax. I live with it and have benefited from medication. Yes, there are side effects like there is with any other form of medication. It's not the most perfect way to treat the symptoms but it is the fastest.


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31 Dec 2013, 8:07 am

ADHD is a real disorder, but in the USA it is way over-diagnosed by people who just want kids to sit down and shut up.

We used to let kids go out and play to get all the excess energy out (especially boys). We used to discipline a kid who would not behave in class. We don't do that anymore. So, let the school slap an ADHD label on the kid and they can legally pump him up with drugs to make him passive.



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31 Dec 2013, 2:00 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
ADHD is a real disorder, but in the USA it is way over-diagnosed by people who just want kids to sit down and shut up.

We used to let kids go out and play to get all the excess energy out (especially boys). We used to discipline a kid who would not behave in class. We don't do that anymore. So, let the school slap an ADHD label on the kid and they can legally pump him up with drugs to make him passive.


I like what you said. I am sure if I when to school today they would have put the ADD and Aspergers label on me. I suspect I would have had a very negative reaction to being forced drugged. I do agree that neuro diversity is real its been here since the begging of time and goes into the animal kingdom too. The progress in the West is because we have more (quantity) of neuro diversity and a break from being locked down by government/king/church.

I was thinking to make a post about all the school teachers and list of the good ones, most were worthless, essentially a big waste of time. And I think today the system of public schools are much worse.

Here is one of my good ones, Mrs Robinson, a junior high math teacher, up to that point all the math teachers were totally worthless. She even allowed calculators in class, absolutely prohibited by all others at the time.
While she virtually never discussed anything else but basic math, one time she did veer to a different subject.

She was black, probably from the South, I am assuming from a segregated school.
She said that when she whet to grade school, and young boys would have an argument/fight, they would put them into a boxing ring with gloves. I think she said something to the effect they would not allow a mismatched or big kid on a small one. She said usually what would happen is they would end up friends, they would get that "physical fighting out".



Last edited by DoodleDoo on 31 Dec 2013, 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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31 Dec 2013, 2:09 pm

It exists and i know it. Im married to a man with diagnosed adhd, and boy is he affected by it!

he is on medication for sleep because otherwise he would just be awake all night due to his adhd, and he has experimented with diet but that evidently didnt work, so he was prescribed medication by a doctor. he takes 1 tablet a night, but if he feels too alert, he can take 2.

he messes about an awful lot. he can be very 'silly'. ok he has a very big sense of humour and is easily distracted and impressed by things, and people like him because of his sense of humour, but he can also come across as too hyper/too annoying and so loses friends over that.

i feel quite sorry for him in some ways because he is often talking in a group and no-one is listening. he is just too hyperactive to just sit still and politely listen to others. i wouldnt say he is extroverted though. his hyperactivity makes it seem like he is extroverted, but most of the time he forces himself to socialise but sometimes would rather be somewhere quiet with me. but he seems to believe that if he socialises, he will get respect.

he also has learning difficulties (has trouble spelling, writing, math, directions). his handwriting is atrocious.



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31 Dec 2013, 3:45 pm

:lmao:

I knew it!

The really hilarious part is that even with the guy admitting it's made up, people are STILL clutching on.

As for Ritalin: A friend of mine was on Ritalin as a child, he's 31 now and has a permanent jitter in his hands. yeah, good stuff.

Guess what? ALL children have lots of energy and don't pay attention. That's what kids do!
As for adults, a fast paced society forcing people to juggle a million things will have that effect.


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31 Dec 2013, 4:14 pm

I never thought I could have ADHD because I'm not hyperactive but since I joined this site and learned about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder_predominantly_inattentive I thought every symptom listed describes me.

I think if I was in school now they would diagnose me with something. Back when I was in school they didn't know what to think of me. If they did diagnose me they never told me or my mother so I don't think they did. They did make me see various counselors, psychologists, and psychiatrists in my youth and even made me do a 30 day evaluation in a mental hospital. I was in special classes and schools from sixth grad until I quit school at 16.