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dinetahrisingsun
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10 Jun 2013, 7:58 pm

There are plenty of other methods that can be used to generate energy. Define prosperity. There are other methods for mining oil as well.


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AgentPalpatine
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10 Jun 2013, 11:02 pm

dinetahrisingsun wrote:
There are plenty of other methods that can be used to generate energy. Define prosperity. There are other methods for mining oil as well.


Could you please specify which methods you advocate to generate energy? You seem to dislike the government of Canada's decision on this matter, and I'm interested to see what solution you advocate.


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11 Jun 2013, 3:18 am

very little of the oil is going to the united states its mostly going for export also pipelines constantly leak and unless it happens in a very populated area it will not get reported by the media and will go on for months before its found

the amount of destruction needed to get at the tar sand is immense even with reclamation projects.

if we used nuclear power it would make electric cars even more viable and eliminate a large demand on oil

also the biggest purchaser of oil in the united states is the department of defense buying over 50% of the oil imported



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11 Jun 2013, 3:41 am

dinetahrisingsun wrote:
Apparently the "tar sands oil" pipelines now take up 15%! !! of Alberta, Canada.


Hmmm. I pulled up Alberta on Google Earth. If 15% of Alberta is covered with pipelines, then those pipelines should be very obvious. They aren't all that obvous -- about the best I can see is an occasional swatch cut through that may have been made for a pipeline.

15% of Alberta covered by pipelines? I don't believe it.



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11 Jun 2013, 3:42 am

Misslizard wrote:
They are fracking for natural gas here and it's polluting people's wells and causing earthquakes.All my dry wall is cracked from the fracking fracking.Watch the doc Gasland.
This makes me nervous since I am surrounded by shale deposits.


Any effects of fracking that reach to the surface are really quite rare.



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11 Jun 2013, 3:43 am

dinetahrisingsun wrote:
No more mountains or trees.


They leveled the mountains!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!



eric76
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11 Jun 2013, 3:52 am

chris5000 wrote:
very little of the oil is going to the united states its mostly going for export also pipelines constantly leak and unless it happens in a very populated area it will not get reported by the media and will go on for months before its found

the amount of destruction needed to get at the tar sand is immense even with reclamation projects.

if we used nuclear power it would make electric cars even more viable and eliminate a large demand on oil

also the biggest purchaser of oil in the united states is the department of defense buying over 50% of the oil imported


It appears that the Department of Defense uses 300,000 barrels of oil per day, but 70% of that is outside of the United States. That would leave 90,000 barrels of oil per day used here. It looks like our total oil imports are currently somewhere between 300,000,000 and 400,000,000 barrels of oil monthly or more than 10,000,000 barrels of oil daily.

So if the Department of Defense buys at least 5,000,000 imported barrels of oil a day (50% of imports) and only uses 90,000 of those barrels of oil for their own use, what are they doing with the other 4,910,000 barrels of oil they buy every day? Or do they use 300,000 of those barrels of oil and then ship the oil used elsewhere from here? If that is the case, we still have at least 4,700,000 barrels of oil per day to account for.

Do they also buy domestic oil as well?



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11 Jun 2013, 6:48 am

eric76 wrote:
dinetahrisingsun wrote:
Apparently the "tar sands oil" pipelines now take up 15%! !! of Alberta, Canada.


Hmmm. I pulled up Alberta on Google Earth. If 15% of Alberta is covered with pipelines, then those pipelines should be very obvious. They aren't all that obvous -- about the best I can see is an occasional swatch cut through that may have been made for a pipeline.

15% of Alberta covered by pipelines? I don't believe it.


Even if true, it beats freezing your ass off during the Winter.

ruveyn



eric76
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11 Jun 2013, 6:58 am

ruveyn wrote:
eric76 wrote:
dinetahrisingsun wrote:
Apparently the "tar sands oil" pipelines now take up 15%! !! of Alberta, Canada.


Hmmm. I pulled up Alberta on Google Earth. If 15% of Alberta is covered with pipelines, then those pipelines should be very obvious. They aren't all that obvous -- about the best I can see is an occasional swatch cut through that may have been made for a pipeline.

15% of Alberta covered by pipelines? I don't believe it.


Even if true, it beats freezing your ass off during the Winter.

ruveyn


We have a gas well. Only downside is that our gas has no odor.



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11 Jun 2013, 9:12 am

eric76 wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
They are fracking for natural gas here and it's polluting people's wells and causing earthquakes.All my dry wall is cracked from the fracking fracking.Watch the doc Gasland.
This makes me nervous since I am surrounded by shale deposits.


Any effects of fracking that reach to the surface are really quite rare.



Not really,You can look up fracking and earthquakes in Arkansas.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... arthquakes


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eric76
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11 Jun 2013, 9:38 am

Misslizard wrote:
eric76 wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
They are fracking for natural gas here and it's polluting people's wells and causing earthquakes.All my dry wall is cracked from the fracking fracking.Watch the doc Gasland.
This makes me nervous since I am surrounded by shale deposits.


Any effects of fracking that reach to the surface are really quite rare.



Not really,You can look up fracking and earthquakes in Arkansas.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... arthquakes


You must see a different article at that URL than I see. The article mentions fracking, but it is talking about pumping wastewater into the ground.



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11 Jun 2013, 10:10 am

^^^^^That's what they do when they frack here.It's part of the process.That is also what is contaminating ground water.If you are on a private well and it gets polluted and you don't have access to a city water line then you are fracked.
http://www.stuarthsmith.com/earthquake- ... mile-area/


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eric76
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11 Jun 2013, 12:42 pm

Misslizard wrote:
^^^^^That's what they do when they frack here.It's part of the process.That is also what is contaminating ground water.If you are on a private well and it gets polluted and you don't have access to a city water line then you are fracked.
http://www.stuarthsmith.com/earthquake- ... mile-area/


Fracking involves pumping water mixed with chemicals into faults under very high pressure to crack the rocks and give the oil and gas better avenues to escape.

Getting rid of wastewater by pumping it into the ground would not be under the very high pressures used in fracking. The wastewater may or may not contain the usual chemicals found in fracking.



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11 Jun 2013, 2:37 pm

OP was talking about the Keystone XL pipline (really the Alberta Tar Sands by proxy), not "fracking".


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11 Jun 2013, 4:00 pm

A few choices, drive a pipeline through the Canadian Rockies, to the BC coast, and build a refinery, shipping port, all that nice dirty oil along one of the best coasts on earth, trees, fish, nature.

Or send it to Hell or Texas, which lacks trees, water, fish, or interesting native cultures. Most of this path runs through poor pasture, across the Great Plains, where flat and nothing are the main attractions.

It is also Tar Sands, a crude that lacks the good stuff, and makes asphalt, and a low grade dirty oil, which is going to be sent to China, as we do not run that kind of oil fired heat.

There is a lot of it, and it all replaces West Texas Intermediate Crude, Brent, North Sea, and the better "Sweet", flavors of light oil, that make gas, diesel, and are clean to refine.low sulpher, and burn clean. We are exporting acid rain.

The part that stays here is what we make roads out of. Compared to Cement, which is gas fired limestone ground to a fine powder, which consumes a lot of energy, asphalt is just heated up and mixed with sand, small stones, which we have plenty of, and is clean low energy production.

I for one favor Texas over coming down the McKinsie River, turning Bellacoola into a refinery and oil port. I have long planned to fish the McKinsie.

Alberta has not had any real jobs since the Fur Trade ended. All of that pipe is installed by people, who will then spend many years painting it.

I gather that The Mineral Rights are government owned, so Tar Sands replace Taxes. There is enough oil to keep it flowing for hundreds of years.

Rich Canadians, wearing Trapper Hats and riding Moose, while drinking. EH!



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11 Jun 2013, 4:18 pm

Inventor wrote:
A few choices, drive a pipeline through the Canadian Rockies, to the BC coast, and build a refinery, shipping port, all that nice dirty oil along one of the best coasts on earth, trees, fish, nature.

Or send it to Hell or Texas, which lacks trees, water, fish, or interesting native cultures. Most of this path runs through poor pasture, across the Great Plains, where flat and nothing are the main attractions.

It is also Tar Sands, a crude that lacks the good stuff, and makes asphalt, and a low grade dirty oil, which is going to be sent to China, as we do not run that kind of oil fired heat.

There is a lot of it, and it all replaces West Texas Intermediate Crude, Brent, North Sea, and the better "Sweet", flavors of light oil, that make gas, diesel, and are clean to refine.low sulpher, and burn clean. We are exporting acid rain.

The part that stays here is what we make roads out of. Compared to Cement, which is gas fired limestone ground to a fine powder, which consumes a lot of energy, asphalt is just heated up and mixed with sand, small stones, which we have plenty of, and is clean low energy production.

I for one favor Texas over coming down the McKinsie River, turning Bellacoola into a refinery and oil port. I have long planned to fish the McKinsie.

Alberta has not had any real jobs since the Fur Trade ended. All of that pipe is installed by people, who will then spend many years painting it.

I gather that The Mineral Rights are government owned, so Tar Sands replace Taxes. There is enough oil to keep it flowing for hundreds of years.

Rich Canadians, wearing Trapper Hats and riding Moose, while drinking. EH!


your forgetting that the pipeline will be running over a massive aquifer and the production of tar sands involves stripping the land and consumes massive amounts of water. its almost as bad as the coal mining in west Virginia were they cut the tops off of mountains and fill in valleys. sure they reclaim the land and plant trees after they are done but it will never be the same as the virgin land. the very fact that the majority of people wont actually see the destruction for themselves that they wont care or even realize how vast it is. seeing a valley fill a few years ago really changed my views on things. on paper is does not seem bad but in person its hard to even put in words that describe what you see.