Emotion based philosophies the result of chemical addiction?

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Pepe
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21 Jun 2013, 5:36 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYfoGTIG7pY[/youtube]

A persistent question pops into mind:

Are these 3 brain systems, which Helen Fisher talks about, also involved in the "love"/attachment to some philosophical beliefs?

Could these biological mechanisms also explain the dependencies on irrational belief systems?
Could the infatuation of an irrational/emotion based philosophy simply be the result of a chemical addiction?



MCalavera
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21 Jun 2013, 5:45 am

It's a psychosociobiological thing. Not simply chemicals in the brain.



Pepe
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21 Jun 2013, 6:19 am

MCalavera wrote:
It's a psychosociobiological thing. Not simply chemicals in the brain.


Helen Fisher suggests the importance of various chemical, such as dopamine, serotonin, estrogen and testosterone in psychological states of mind such as lust, romantic love and long term attachment...
She expands on this on "The Drum", a TV show here in Australia.
I am trying to see if I can find a copy on the net.

But the question remains:
Do the mechanisms mentioned also influence/create attachments to philosophies, even if the philosophy is based on an irrational belief network?



MCalavera
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21 Jun 2013, 7:08 am

They are important, but they aren't the only factors.

Why do these chemical activities occur in some people but don't in others? Is it really strictly a biological thing? Or could the environment also play a role?

One of the first things a student is taught in psychology is that there is no simple answer to such questions. One has to look at it from various perspectives.



NewDawn
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21 Jun 2013, 7:24 am

Neuropsychology is a lot more complex than that and in many areas still poorly understood. When a neurotransmitter binds to a receptor, the response of the neuron isn´t a simple one. The neurotransmitter may or may not activate a complex network of intracellular pathways and feedback loops that can and do have various outcomes. How these very complex networks interact is an emerging field of study called systems biology.

To give you an idea of the complexity: this is an oversimplified schematic of the main pathways. The real schematic, which is in many ways still hypothetical and needs to be confirmed with experiments, consists of thousands of pathways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Signa ... thways.png



Pepe
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21 Jun 2013, 7:54 am

MCalavera wrote:
They are important, but they aren't the only factors.

Why do these chemical activities occur in some people but don't in others? Is it really strictly a biological thing? Or could the environment also play a role?

One of the first things a student is taught in psychology is that there is no simple answer to such questions. One has to look at it from various perspectives.


Firstly let me say I am an explorer...
I am not suggesting I have answers, just questions at this stage...
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

I am just starting my research regarding the biochemical mechanisms and these influences encouraging theist philosophies.
I do seem to have a well developed sense of what I call "primitive logic" to help me, however... ;)

Here is another video by Helen Fisher considering biochemical systems and personality interaction/relationship.
What piqued up my interest was her reference to individuals, who have higher levels of serotonin, being more inclined towards religious beliefs...

The reference is in the beginning, but I found the entire clip interesting:
http://video.answers.com/helen-fisher-o ... -516907668



Pepe
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21 Jun 2013, 8:16 am

MCalavera wrote:
Why do these chemical activities occur in some people but don't in others?


According to Fisher, different people are influenced differently (to greater or lesser degrees) by different biochemical systems...
I.E. Dopamine, serotonin, estrogen or testosterone systems...



Pepe
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21 Jun 2013, 8:21 am

NewDawn wrote:
Neuropsychology is a lot more complex than that and in many areas still poorly understood. When a neurotransmitter binds to a receptor, the response of the neuron isn´t a simple one. The neurotransmitter may or may not activate a complex network of intracellular pathways and feedback loops that can and do have various outcomes. How these very complex networks interact is an emerging field of study called systems biology.

To give you an idea of the complexity: this is an oversimplified schematic of the main pathways. The real schematic, which is in many ways still hypothetical and needs to be confirmed with experiments, consists of thousands of pathways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Signa ... thways.png


Thank you for information...



MCalavera
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21 Jun 2013, 8:40 am

Pepe wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Why do these chemical activities occur in some people but don't in others?


According to Fisher, different people are influenced differently (to greater or lesser degrees) by different biochemical systems...
I.E. Dopamine, serotonin, estrogen or testosterone systems...


True, but what does this indicate exactly in terms of cause and effect? How do these differences come about? And if one resolves some maladaptive reactions in the brain with medication and such, does this fix the main psychological issue characterized by these chemical activities? Or is it just a biological correlate and the cause is external?



Pepe
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21 Jun 2013, 7:50 pm

MCalavera wrote:
Pepe wrote:
True, but what does this indicate exactly in terms of cause and effect? How do these differences come about? And if one resolves some maladaptive reactions in the brain with medication and such, does this fix the main psychological issue characterized by these chemical activities? Or is it just a biological correlate and the cause is external?


Interesting questions, but my focus is on the interrelation between biochemical influences and philosophical affinities, especially regarding non analytical irrational/emotion based belief systems.

If we assume Helen Fisher's empirical evidence about lust, romantic love and attachment, which she and her colleges have collected for over 30 years, is accurate and indicative, could this socio-psychological-biochemical mechanism also create a state of "love" or profound attachment to certain philosophical beliefs that defy reason?

My question is:
Could the "love" mechanism explain the infatuation/obsession with a seemingly irrational philosophical belief system?

As with lust, romantic love and profound attachment, some people will suicide or homicide because of their obsessive dependency...
The same could be said about some people who are in lust, in love or profoundly attached to what they perceive as their purpose/meaning in life.



CAL_1138
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21 Jun 2013, 8:09 pm

I think the cause is more societal. Most people simply seem to follow the norms and conventions of their society blindly. This may be what is causing the perception that people are imbalanced for going against society. But another key is WHAT society you come from.

I think this is why aspies are such non conformists from what I have seen. When you aren't a part of society - have no interest in it -naturally, you aren't going to be concerned with conforming to it.



redriverronin
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26 Jun 2013, 4:54 pm

Pepe wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Pepe wrote:
True, but what does this indicate exactly in terms of cause and effect? How do these differences come about? And if one resolves some maladaptive reactions in the brain with medication and such, does this fix the main psychological issue characterized by these chemical activities? Or is it just a biological correlate and the cause is external?


Interesting questions, but my focus is on the interrelation between biochemical influences and philosophical affinities, especially regarding non analytical irrational/emotion based belief systems.

If we assume Helen Fisher's empirical evidence about lust, romantic love and attachment, which she and her colleges have collected for over 30 years, is accurate and indicative, could this socio-psychological-biochemical mechanism also create a state of "love" or profound attachment to certain philosophical beliefs that defy reason?

My question is:
Could the "love" mechanism explain the infatuation/obsession with a seemingly irrational philosophical belief system?

As with lust, romantic love and profound attachment, some people will suicide or homicide because of their obsessive dependency...
The same could be said about some people who are in lust, in love or profoundly attached to what they perceive as their purpose/meaning in life.

Makes total sense when you are young theses chemicals flood the brain and you end up making many bad choices and seem to fall in love every day with some one new. Religion Is alot like a bad relationship it tells you it loves you and it will always be there for you makes you totaly change your life then when you need it most its nowhere to be found but still you cant ever find fault and keep running back.



Pepe
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28 Jun 2013, 9:42 pm

redriverronin wrote:
Religion Is alot like a bad relationship it tells you it loves you and it will always be there for you makes you totaly change your life then when you need it most its nowhere to be found but still you cant ever find fault and keep running back.


Indeed, it is a relationship from hell... :twisted:



ruveyn
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29 Jun 2013, 3:49 am

It reduces to ions being transported through a membrane.

So much for love, spirituality, nobility and goodness.

ruveyn



Pepe
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30 Jun 2013, 1:25 am

ruveyn wrote:
It reduces to ions being transported through a membrane.

So much for love, spirituality, nobility and goodness.

ruveyn

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrhRzxoFH-4[/youtube]

As Helen Fisher says:
You can know all the ingredients in a chocolate cake...
...but it doesn't reduce you enjoyment of it...

As Richard Dawkins says:
Enjoy this fantastically awesome existence, dude... :P

There may not be any inherent meaning to "life, the universe and everything..."
But that doesn't mean you can't enjoy the nutz and boltz of the life experience...
(We are hard wired to react to certain stimuli, no matter what we believe in...)
Just don't go on a crusade/jihad while you are doing it, is my advice...
And live and let live... ;)



Pepe
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30 Jun 2013, 1:31 am

Will you choose the red or the blue pill?
Will you choose a harsh reality...
...or a comfortable lie?...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjgE8Lw5YaQ&NR=1&feature=endscreen[/youtube]