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Laddo
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06 Jul 2013, 9:04 am

I'm really keen to learn some sort of martial art that will keep me fit, teach me some discipline and give me useful self-defence skills. I attended a karate class for a bit and got to yellow belt but there was less emphasis on the discipline and mindset. Can anyone recommend a martial art that focuses more on self-discipline than simply learning self-defence? I would rather avoid something that's going to be mostly made up of angry men with big muscles and big egos who just to learn to fight better.

Any experiences of martial arts and how they've been useful in your lives is very welcome.


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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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06 Jul 2013, 1:57 pm

I think the 'soft style' martial arts like aikido have more emphasis on philosophy and inner approach.



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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06 Jul 2013, 2:12 pm

I'd like to include some general information on marital arts for both you and other people who may be reading along:

Please don't take a bunch of blows to the head during training because all that stuff about post-concussion syndrome is largely true. And there are real questions about even cumulative lesser blows. And headgear does not really protect.

Getting good enough at karate to possibly make a difference if attacked is a matter of months. Getting good enough at aikido is a matter of years.

Any sensei worth his or her salt will teach walking away from a fight if you reasonably can. And walk toward an area of more people if possibly.

Martial arts is often too serious for a workplace or schoolyard shoving match. In fact, I made a whole post entitled "tight, defensive boxing to a draw."
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt134616.html
And the same conclusion applies regarding not taking bunch of blows to the head during training.



Laddo
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06 Jul 2013, 4:26 pm

Thanks for the info AardvarkGoodSwimmer. Your tight defensive boxing topic was very interesting.

I looked up aikido. It looks good but I want something a little bit more aggressive. Maybe kind of in-between karate and aikido. Karate was fun but there were a lot of pumped up douchebags in my class. I'm starting to think I'd be better off with one-on-one lessons so I can ask the sensei whenever I need to.


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VIDEODROME
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06 Jul 2013, 4:48 pm

Wow I would not take getting knocked in the head in a training class. The hell with that.

I wonder if Tai Chi would work? At least it doesn't seem like something jocks would sign up for.



MDD123
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06 Jul 2013, 6:35 pm

Krav Maga has some pretty quick payoffs imo. It all centers around the posturing, kicking and punching are big aspects and weren't too difficult for anyone to get the hang of, also the class I went to was physically intense. Unfortunately, the class was at 8pm and clashed with my college schedule, so I never made it past beginner. I never found out if head punching was part of the intermediate curriculum.

I'd also reccomend Brazillian Jujitsu, it's a more intensive workout than Krav Maga. It isn't as easy to get the hang of, but punching isn't necessary at all, the idea behind everything is grappling.


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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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06 Jul 2013, 10:45 pm

You're welcome. I'm glad you found it interesting. :D

And yes, maybe ju jitsu as more active?



neilson_wheels
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07 Jul 2013, 5:31 am

As with most things in life the quality, style and philosophy of the instructor counts as much as the choice of subject.

As above, avoid anything with regular full contact, as in knockdown, sparring. Even so, you have to recognise that accidents can and will happen. Sparring is essential to become efficient and for this you need a class with additional private lessons if necessary.

Recommended, Ju-Jitsu, Tai Chi and Aikido. They all have their own merits, Ju-Jitsu combines striking and grappling, the other two often rely on using your opponents own force and mass against them. Generally there is little ground between the two types, for example Karate and Aikido, traditional styles are either grappling or striking based, Ju-Jitsu was traditionally seen as something to move up to after reaching a competent level in one of the above, but I think that is less common now.

Find a class, go and watch the advanced levels, try a couple of lessons. You can't really judge a style until you try it out for yourself.

As far as I know Krav Maga is still not that common in the UK.

The benefits of punching to the head for self defence are debatable, especially with an experienced street fighter. Additionally you can cause permanent injuries to yourself with poor technique or targeting.



Alycat
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07 Jul 2013, 8:15 am

I've done Judo and Tae Kwon Do, and in both classes they taught us to walk away from fights etc.


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neilson_wheels
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07 Jul 2013, 8:33 am

Alycat wrote:
I've done Judo and Tae Kwon Do, and in both classes they taught us to walk away from fights etc.


Always the best choice if available.



starryeyedvoyager
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07 Jul 2013, 3:42 pm

I can only recommend hard styles of karate, like Kyokushin and its variations, and while often focused on competition, many still develope the mental / spiritual aspects. Judo is always good, but make sure to not go into a course that focuses on competition. Competetive Judo has lost alot of its effective techniques due to restrictions.



Pondering
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09 Jul 2013, 12:44 am

What kind of discipline and mindset are you seeking? I don't understand this. No training with men who are big, strong, and hungry to better themselves for self defense? That takes a lot of physical and mental discipline to do. What kind of discipline and mindset could you mean?

I have just read your post about one on ones. You will never be as good as you can be with one on one sessions, but you could when you train with many people. One person can only teach you what they know and push you how they know they can. If you train with many people, you're going to learn a lot more because of their differences. If your problem is negative people, you need to suck it up and get better, or find a new place to train. These kind of folks you talk about are in almost every gym.

I've practiced Karate for years and it was quite a bit focused on the basics of discipline. First we were taught fitness training for the specific martial art, specific workouts basically, which we must do every day to every other day. You need to be in good shape. Very slightly after it was all about technique, technique, technique for when practicing moves in the air, the pads, and on the bag. Following technique, was the philosophy of following certain orders from your superior, comparable to having an army sergeant, like saying "Yes sir!" when he says something to empower you. For example Sensei guy says: "You will not try your best, you will do your best!" The students: "SIR YES SIR!" and "We do not use our skills for bad, only good!" ect... Then there was sparring. You must test your physical and mental skills and toughness against others. You are likely to get banged up and manhandled for awhile but that's all part of growing. If you don't get knocked down, how are you going to know you'll have it in you to get up?


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omegatyrant
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06 Aug 2013, 10:59 pm

Laddo wrote:

I looked up aikido. It looks good but I want something a little bit more aggressive. Maybe kind of in-between karate and aikido.


Hapkido should be your choice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapkido



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06 Aug 2013, 11:02 pm

Pondering wrote:
What kind of discipline and mindset are you seeking? I don't understand this. No training with men who are big, strong, and hungry to better themselves for self defense? That takes a lot of physical and mental discipline to do. What kind of discipline and mindset could you mean?

I have just read your post about one on ones. You will never be as good as you can be with one on one sessions, but you could when you train with many people. One person can only teach you what they know and push you how they know they can. If you train with many people, you're going to learn a lot more because of their differences. If your problem is negative people, you need to suck it up and get better, or find a new place to train. These kind of folks you talk about are in almost every gym.

I've practiced Karate for years and it was quite a bit focused on the basics of discipline. First we were taught fitness training for the specific martial art, specific workouts basically, which we must do every day to every other day. You need to be in good shape. Very slightly after it was all about technique, technique, technique for when practicing moves in the air, the pads, and on the bag. Following technique, was the philosophy of following certain orders from your superior, comparable to having an army sergeant, like saying "Yes sir!" when he says something to empower you. For example Sensei guy says: "You will not try your best, you will do your best!" The students: "SIR YES SIR!" and "We do not use our skills for bad, only good!" ect... Then there was sparring. You must test your physical and mental skills and toughness against others. You are likely to get banged up and manhandled for awhile but that's all part of growing. If you don't get knocked down, how are you going to know you'll have it in you to get up?


Bolded portion is spot on. I trained Aikido in Japan for a couple of months, and even in that dojo, there were several loud mouthed, aggressive, domineering types.



1000Knives
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06 Aug 2013, 11:28 pm

Judo. You can fight full contact. I still remember how to fall from judo class I took as a kid, and instinctively in any sort of fight I get into I still remember to try to grab my opponent so he loses balance. Looking back I'm really happy I took it. It's probably the best balance of what you're looking for, no practicing kata in the air forever and ever, but at the same time, it doesn't denigrate into schoolyard fight silliness like MMA does.

Honestly though, I believe general physical conditioning is more important than fighting technique. There's only so much you can do with "technique" alone, without strength and power behind it. Get yourself really athletic, able to run fast, jump high, pick up stuff easily, etc. Get very good balance, etc. Practice the compound lifts in weightlifting, especially squats and deadlifts to build lots of leg and core strength to make you agile. Also practice plyometrics, to build reactiveness.

Also, you should maybe look into a "soft" type of thing as a base. Bruce Lee was a champion ballroom dancer. Anything that teaches you to move and increases your brain's visual spatial capacity/adaptability. For me, I know when I started skating, because of my ability to move on the ice, I'm way more agile in general daily life, way more flexible, way better posture, etc.

I would say do the conditioning and "soft" type of thing first, then pick a martial art, or do them as much as possible alongside your martial art.

Also personally nowadays besides maybe going back to judo like I did as a kid, the only martial art that really really interests me is tai chi. It's the most arty, and potentially (in my opinion) the most powerful of all martial arts.