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MagicToenail
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10 Jul 2013, 5:37 pm

It's not hard for me to boycott the Ender's Game movie. I personally think Card is a hack, and the "plot twist" in [iEnder's Game][/i] was stupid. And he's been milking the same themes from Ender for 40 years or so. It does seem to have a good cast however, particularly for fans of Merlin. So I can see how some people can be torn.
What do you think of the boycott? I know Shakespeare had odious views about race and anti Jewish views, but he's no longer getting royalties, so I don't feel bad about watching Much Ado About Nothing.



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10 Jul 2013, 6:09 pm

I dunno, I liked the books well enough :shrug: Some philosophical points were interesting, even though there were plot holes the size of my fist.


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10 Jul 2013, 7:08 pm

I probably won't see the movie because I've already read the books.



Darkone101
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10 Jul 2013, 7:26 pm

Have not read it since I was like nine but from what I remember I enjoyed it greatly and will see the movie. What reasons are there to boycott it?



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10 Jul 2013, 8:13 pm

I think you are being why to goddamn obsessive over something you don't even want to see, if you don't want to watch it, don't. Card's views on homosexuality have nothing to do with the movie.


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10 Jul 2013, 8:53 pm

I didn't even know they were filming Ender's Game. I liked all those books a lot (except for "a war of gifts" ) so I won't boycott it.

If this is due to his views on homosexuality, I won't boycott a product I like based on views held by author or producer, I'm just in for the product itself.


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MagicToenail
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10 Jul 2013, 9:33 pm

Ganondox wrote:
I think you are being why to goddamn obsessive over something you don't even want to see, if you don't want to watch it, don't. Card's views on homosexuality have nothing to do with the movie.

I'm not obsessive over the movie, or even really about Card, but about the moral question of a boycott.
I love the works of Vladimir Nabokov and T.S. Elliot, but in life Nabokov disowned his own brother who died in a Nazi concentration camp because he (the brother) was homosexual, and Elliot was an Anti-Semite. Not nice guys.I once did a paper on Emil Nolde, a brilliant artist who embraced the Nazi's, but because his work was too modern and celebrated primitive people, was later banned and villified by them. I also like Heinlein, who although generally a feminist, believed that it was usually the woman's fault she was raped.
I don't think people who want to see Ender are all homophobes or horrible people. I actually think Ender's Game (The first two novels of the series, anyway, I've never been able to make my way through more) was written when Card was more liberal. I am torn about a boycott. On one hand, I realize that most of the cast doesn't share Card's repulsive views. On the other I think Card's a smug, bigoted little peckerwood who doesn't deserve any more royalties.
It's an age old question. Can (or should) you enjoy an artist who has repellent views?
It's quite easy to boycott Card or Vincent Gallo-not so much T.S. Elliot and Shakespeare.



Darkone101
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10 Jul 2013, 10:31 pm

I do not view others work on beliefs but on their work.



MagicToenail
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10 Jul 2013, 11:41 pm

Darkone101 wrote:
I do not view others work on beliefs but on their work.

Ah, but sometimes it's not easy to separate the two!
Did you ever read The Iron Dream by Norman Spinrad. It's a fascinating alternate history book where Adolph Hitler was a sci fi writer and wrote a book called Lord of The Swastika. It's also a fascinating view of art and politics.
I personally find it hard to like the original Buck Rodgers-the artwork is gorgeous, but it is as racist as hell, toward Asians. Flash Gordon had a similar problem, but softened it a little with Ming's daughter Aura being redeemed.
Admittedly homosexuality doesn't really play a role in Ender's Game, unless you count the boy on boy wrestling that reappears in Treason (which was kind of suspicious, wink wink), but it does in Songmaster and Hamlet's Father.



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11 Jul 2013, 4:56 am

I'm torn.

I was honestly stunned when I read about OSC's views on homosexuality -- mainly because I read "Ender's Game" and "Speaker for the Dead" as explicitly inclusive narratives that show over and over again that things aren't "wrong" just because they are different.

I somehow doubt the movies will do the story justice, anyway, but ... meh. :(



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11 Jul 2013, 10:27 am

Never read the books, but would have gone to see the movies since I've certainly heard of them enough over the years and the movie I'm sure would be at least a "Cliff's Notes" version for lazy 'ole me. However, frankly, I've come to care more about the issue of rights for LGBT people lately, mostly because I find it repugnant that one group of people would seek to deny or take rights away from another group when we're all supposed to have equal rights. Do I want to put money into the pockets of someone who has the view of denying rights to a group of people when he should not be entitled to deny them those rights? Not really. Do I want to put money into his pockets knowing that he may turn around and spend some of that money on this very thing that I find abhorrent? Hell no. That said, I don't think anyone else should feel obligated to do as I do - if someone is in favor of LGBT rights, but wants to see this movie, that's their choice and I respect it. But for me, no, I won't be seeing this movie.



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11 Jul 2013, 6:35 pm

I intend on seeing Ender's Game when it arrives in theaters.


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11 Jul 2013, 11:20 pm

You can maybe argue T.S. Eliot was living at a time when Antisemitism was so common place. Today, with gay rights having become the new civil rights movement, Card can't make such arguments to defend himself and expect to be forgiven for the circumstances of where and when he was born.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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12 Jul 2013, 12:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
You can maybe argue T.S. Eliot was living at a time when Antisemitism was so common place. Today, with gay rights having become the new civil rights movement, Card can't make such arguments to defend himself and expect to be forgiven for the circumstances of where and when he was born.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Just because society says something is right or wrong doesn't mean it is. Anyway, from the culture Card is from gay rights are not common place.

I say that boycotting Ender's Game because of Card isn't worthwhile, Ender's Game itself has nothing to do with the issue, and Card isn't the only man behind this movie. Anyway, in the very least it's a good book, though I don't think all of the elements would transfer that will to the cinema.


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12 Jul 2013, 2:04 am

Ganondox wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
You can maybe argue T.S. Eliot was living at a time when Antisemitism was so common place. Today, with gay rights having become the new civil rights movement, Card can't make such arguments to defend himself and expect to be forgiven for the circumstances of where and when he was born.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Just because society says something is right or wrong doesn't mean it is. Anyway, from the culture Card is from gay rights are not common place.

I say that boycotting Ender's Game because of Card isn't worthwhile, Ender's Game itself has nothing to do with the issue, and Card isn't the only man behind this movie. Anyway, in the very least it's a good book, though I don't think all of the elements would transfer that will to the cinema.


I'm sorry, but I think civil rights are always right.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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12 Jul 2013, 6:53 am

I still find it a bit baffling they the guy who wrote Ender, and about the speaker of the dead, would say such things. Adult Ender would not cast gay people out, or even patronize them, he'd accept them.


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