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petitesouris
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16 Jul 2013, 10:18 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju ... NTCMP=SRCH

It appears that the suspect was convicted of murder when he lived in Norway, yet was released after less than 20 years. I really do not sympathize with the idea of "forgiveness" for people who were proven to commit serious crimes. I mean, Breivik did not even receive a life sentence.

Also, why was this unstable person allowed to enter France? The same oblivious people in charge who enable the growth of islamic fundamentalism also fail to anticipate the growth of neo-nazism.

Even as someone who is against "borderless utopias" and communitarianism, I do not think that this person and Breivik are any better than islamists. It is also true that one of the things they pretend to oppose (radical islamism) is not necessarily any better, on principle, than nazism, yet this is not why they oppose it and the "solutions" and "ideas" they offer cannot be an option.

It also seems that the wife of the suspect was French and is also being interrogated. For a while, I thought that France was free of neo-fascism. I must admit that I am prone to viewing people of northwestern european descent as intolerant while ignoring racism in my own culture. I am aware that not all minorities despise everything that is good about Europe or commit crimes and more efforts should be made to work with those who are willing to learn about our culture, follow the same rules as everyone else, and embrace common visions about progressive ideals and how to fix the innumerable problems most of us are commonly facing.

Also, what I do not understand is why the E.U. spends more energy silencing eurosceptics and nationalists who just oppose their countries becoming provinces of Euro-America and their societies breaking to pieces, than they spend trying to get rid of neo-nazis. Some people have speculated that the E.U. was founded on fascist ideas, which would explain why they are relatively unconcerned about this trend. < many eurosceptics see the E.U. as an entity of "bolshevism", however, upon closer inspection, one begins to speculate about whether the agenda of the E.U. is not, rather, that of fascism.



Last edited by petitesouris on 17 Jul 2013, 5:10 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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17 Jul 2013, 12:21 am

Islam wants to destroy Europe, and France is helping them.



petitesouris
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17 Jul 2013, 12:59 am

Inventor wrote:
Islam wants to destroy Europe, and France is helping them.


I have been painfully aware of this for years, yet I am simply not a sympathizer of any terrorism regardless of what kind it is.

Do you really think I did not figure this out already or do you seriously think that anyone who is not going to sink to the same level as islamists is against their country?

Radical islamism has contributed to creating or worsening certain ethnic conflicts in the former Soviet Union and the former Yugoslavia (with the complicity of the "elites" who run Europe and America). On a much smaller scale, western Europe may face similar problems in the coming decades. Many "leaders" of western countries, who do not care about the future of Europe, have (among other things) been complicit in all this. If we in western Europe still blindly support these "leaders", who create immeasurable damage to much of humanity, even when we know about their corruption, then we contribute to our own destruction.

I have ceased to identify with all political ideologies after I came to the depressing realization that everyone condones and supports the damage islamism has inflicted on Europe and other places, yet this does not mean that I am a fascist sympathizer.

Do not worry, I have written plenty of posts on the subject of islam in which I indulged in emotional breakdowns, yet it is time to engage in serious discussions instead of verbally supporting fascism since doing so only satisfies the Anti-Europeans (so called "multiculturalists" among others), who want to paint anyone who disagrees with them as racist.

Also, I do realize that islam is not the only threat to Europe, even though I wish we never followed the policy of mass immigration and think it is one of the worst mistakes we have ever made. Various forms of globalization also threaten Europe. Also, different forces sometimes align with each other, which is the case with islamism and globalization. Saying that only one force could threaten the people, values, ideals, and identities of Europe only serves to distract us from more subtle and diffuse problems.



Last edited by petitesouris on 18 Jul 2013, 11:19 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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17 Jul 2013, 2:05 am

France in Algeria, was over 160 years of terror. In the end it got a lot worse, and even after liberation, the elected government was replaced by the army.

These people hate you with a passion that will not die out for hundreds of years, and you let them invade France. You brought the war home.

I live in a French Colony, we were sold to Thomas Jefferson. It has not been easy. More of my family came from Martinque. France out of France left a trail of bad memories.

French Colonials were treated like Devils Island. The Foreign Legion was a penal army. The natives were treated much worse.

France exported the worst of French Culture, and now the chickens have come home to roost. France is the staging ground for Islamic Colonies through Europe. Dead as Rome is your future.

If France cannot rule, they will destroy Europe, and call anyone who objects racist. When you hear the call to prayer from the mosque, know they are praying for your death.

China fights Islam, Russia fights Islam, and France has brought the nose of the Islamic camel into the tent of Europe.

Roland died to protect France from Islam. Vlad the Impaler stopped the spread of Islam into Europe. Where Islam spreads there has always been nothing but blood and fire.

This time it will be different, we are using Superior French Culture?

It will be the same, only one will survive.



redriverronin
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17 Jul 2013, 2:45 am

This is how the people in power stay in power by creating social problems by letting immigrants that are ignorant and violent draw attention away from all on the corrupt things they do. I had heard of problems in Europe from this I didn't know it was as bad as what you described though well at the very least you have a chance to deal with your problems unlike America we are done for.



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17 Jul 2013, 3:04 am

petitesouris wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/16/french-arrest-norwegian-terror-plot-suspect?INTCMP=SRCH

It appears that the suspect was convicted of murder when he lived in Norway, yet was released after less than 20 years. I really do not sympathize with the idea of "forgiveness" for people who were proven to commit serious crimes. I mean, Breivik did not even receive a life sentence.
In the EU countries, there is normally no such thing as a life long sentence. Even if it is called that way, it means normally about 25-30 years maximum, because that is already most peoples life.

What you dont seem to know, there is jail, and then there are persons that are not in jail, but in closed psychic hospitals, because of them being a danger for other people. So Breivik will leave jail one day, because of his sentence ending, but he needs as well a official psychiatrician/therapeut document declaring, that he is no threat for society anymore. I doubt, that there will be a doctor taking that risc, so he will be in closed psychiatrician hospital the rest of his life.

Quote:
Also, why was this unstable person allowed to enter France? The same oblivious people in charge who enable the growth of islamic fundamentalism also fail to anticipate the growth of neo-nazism.
He was allowed to enter the EU, because of him being a citizen of the EU. I agree with you, that people should care more for radical funamentalisitic people as Nazis and radiqual muslim groups, but in opposite to the last one, the first mentioned are mostly citizens of the EU, so you simply cant force them into a flyer. :(

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Even as someone who is against "borderless utopias" and communitarianism, I do not think that this person and Breivik are any better than jihadists. It is also true that one of the things they pretend to oppose (radical islamism) is not necessarily any better, on principle, than nazism, yet this is not why they oppose it and the "solutions" and "ideas" they offer cannot be an option.
Both are radical, aggressive people, that try to force their own oppinions and the system they wished to rule them, on other people by violance and force. As mentioned, while luckily against radical foreigners the laws are getting stricter, and as example radical muslim preachers telling their followers to go against the countries law, get now more and moer forced to live the countries they are against, you hardly can force an german Nazi to leave Germany. :(

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It also seems that the wife of the suspect was French and is also being interrogated. For a while, I thought that France was free of far right terrorism. I must admit that I am prone to viewing people of northwestern european descent as intolerant while ignoring racism in my own culture. I am aware that not all minorities despise everything that is good about Europe or commit crimes and more efforts should be made to work with those who are willing to learn about our culture, follow the same rules as everyone else, and embrace common visions about progressive ideals and how to fix the innumerable problems most of us are commonly facing.
Normally people refer right terrorism with Nazis, but french people, would because of their history, hardly call themselve ever Nazis. However, you dont need to be a Nazi to be a follower of right terrorism, Nazis are only one part of that. Just like you dont need to be Al-Quaida member to be in an aggressive fundamentalistic muslim group, there are much more of them.

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Also, what I do not understand is why the E.U. spends more energy silencing eurosceptics and people who are merely concerned about their countries becoming colonies of the Euro-American empire and their societies breaking to pieces, than they spend trying to get rid of neo-nazis. Some people have speculated that the E.U. was founded on fascist ideas, which would explain why they are relatively unconcerned about this trend. < many eurosceptics see the E.U. as an overly aggressive promoter of "progress", however, upon closer inspection, one begins to speculate about whether the agenda of the E.U. is not, rather, that of fascism.
Its not about more. Both should be watched more carefully. Neither do I want my country to be sold to the USA and its government of company-CEO, nor do I want it to become an radical fundamentaslistic country, anyway if Nazis or radical muslim groups. The last two groups are at least official enemies of our state, while the USA are told to be our friends by politicians payed by them, while they truly spy on us, ignore on our laws, kidnapp citizens of us to torture them against every law, are one of the last countries not willing to agree into global -warcrime justice, and threaten democratic voted presidents of free countries and the rights given to them by international agreements, and neutral countries that refuse to give up their neutrality to assist them in international crimes.

Before you get me wrong, I dont assume normal US citizens to be criminals, they are just normal people struggling with their normal lifes as we all do, but I think your government (so the real government behind the scenes) is for me a big player in worldwide criminal actions. (My oppinions about many EU polticians isnt much better, they simply dont have as much possibilities, but when it comes to greedyness and corruptness, I think they are equal.)



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17 Jul 2013, 3:41 am

On Breivik: technically he did not receive a life sentence, but in practice he will probably never be released.

On 24 August 2012, Oslo District Court found Breivik sane and guilty of murdering 77 people. He was sentenced to 21 years of preventive detention, a special form of prison sentence, with a minimum of 10 years and the possibility of extension for as long as he is deemed a danger to society; he will probably remain in prison for life.

And on life sentences in Europe: in most countries it is possible (red in the picture), but very uncommon.

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23 Jul 2013, 1:43 pm

petitesouris wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/16/french-arrest-norwegian-terror-plot-suspect?INTCMP=SRCH

First a response on the article :

Quote:
A Norwegian musician and alleged sympathiser of mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik was arrested on Tuesday as French authorities suspected he could be planning "a large terrorist act".


Because he was on of the 500+ people who received Breiviks manifesto that makes him an alleged sympathizer? I have read what Varg has to say about Breivik, and he can not be called a Breivik sympathizer, alleged or confirmed.

And from what I have read his arrest was shortly after he made an angry blog-post about the following :

http://www.europe1.fr/Faits-divers/Bret ... t-1582707/

Quote:
The Paris prosecutor's office identified him as Kristian "Varg" Vikernes, a neo-Nazi


He rejects that term for the following reasons :

Quote:
What makes me different from the "nazis" are basically three things; unlike them I am not socialistic (not even on a national level), I am not materialistic and I believe in (the ancient Scandinavian!) democracy.


Quote:
who earned notoriety in the 90s after he was convicted of the manslaughter of a fellow band member.


He was no longer a member of Mayhem at that time.

petitesouris wrote:
Some people have speculated that the E.U. was founded on fascist ideas,


Then define fascist ideas. Because the ideology of the EU can be traced back to this man :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_N ... ve-Kalergi

And in terms of more practical politics to the desire of American politics to better control European politics by not having to deal with a few dozen minsters of foreign affairs and France desire to control Germans heavy industry.



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23 Jul 2013, 2:51 pm

petitesouris wrote:
It appears that the suspect was convicted of murder when he lived in Norway, yet was released after less than 20 years. I really do not sympathize with the idea of "forgiveness" for people who were proven to commit serious crimes.


I don't see anything strange with his release. He was convicted of manslaughter (not murder, that's judicially something else), got a sentence of 21 years and was released after 14 years. That's perfectly normal in European countries, also in France. Prisoners are usually released after they've served 2/3 of the sentence, unless there are grave reasons not to do so (Breivik probably won't get parole)



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23 Jul 2013, 3:12 pm

Inventor wrote:
Islam wants to destroy Europe, and France is helping them.


*sigh*

Extremist interpretations of it may. Islam isn't a monolithic bloc anymore than Christianity is.


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23 Jul 2013, 3:23 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Inventor wrote:
Islam wants to destroy Europe, and France is helping them.


*sigh*

Extremist interpretations of it may. Islam isn't a monolithic bloc anymore than Christianity is.


The problem with Islam comes down to the religion itself and what it teaches its believers.

Here's an interesting article I found recently, on Mehdi Hasan - someone who isn't an Islamist, and could be called a moderate Muslim. He's a nasty bigot all the same who is treated with far too much reverence:

Quote:
The Curious Case of Mehdi Hasan.

In 2012 the political director of The Huffington Post UK, Mehdi Hasan debated Times columnist David Aaronovitch in a Huffington Post debate on the ‘right to offend‘. Hasan argued that his Islamic faith defines him, more so than his racial identity and from this, argues that the right to mock or ridicule faith, is taking the limits of free expression too far. I think this is perhaps where Hasan makes two crucial mistakes, and his statements in the past most certainly back up my assertion that Hasan makes two crucial mistake at that point.

It is my belief, that the freedom to satirise, mock, criticise, as well as question all authoritative ideas, including all religions that themselves are openly critical of how those outside the faith live their lives, is the cornerstone of a progressive, and reasonable society. These ideas include the freedom to satirise and criticise and question deeply held political ideals, including my own. We must not allow religions to be free from satire, nor criticism, simply because it is cloaked in ‘faith’. To close them to criticism/satirism by using State controls and violence, means that the idea becomes taboo, humanity cannot progress the idea, and it gives the idea an authority above what it is reasonably justified in having, over the lives of not just its followers, but those who don’t wish to adhere to its principles. This is dangerous.

When a faith is personal, kept private, and is not used to justify bigotry and the withholding of the rights of others; then we should exercise restraint and human decency and not openly mock that person for no reason… we shouldn’t be banned from doing so, we should be responsible enough not to. It is personal to that person, and has no bearing on my life, or the life of anyone else. Inner faith; regardless of the religion, is, i’m sure, a wonderful thing. Go to Church, go to Mosque, express your inner faith, personally. It is yours to keep, and I will happily defend anyone’s right to believe whatever they wish. As Jefferson quite wonderfully told; it does me no harm for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no God. Likewise, it does me no harm if my neighbour believes Jesus rose from the dead, or that Muhammad received revelation from God, or in the beautiful spiritual journey set out in the Tao Te Ching, or in Thor, or Apollo, or any other God. As long as it is personal, and relates only to how that one individual chooses to live.


As for the horrible little murdering scumbag (and would-be terrorist, apparently) referenced in the original post: Neo-Nazism is no better than Islamism. Breivik was influenced by Islamists, and actually he endorsed them in his manifesto. People like this are jihadis by another name - the lowest of the low.

All forms of totalitarianism - like neo-Nazism, religious fundamentalism and supremacism, Communism and militarism - are the enemies of liberal democracy and must be resisted.



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23 Jul 2013, 3:32 pm

^Not all of those are necessarily totalitarian. Religious fundamentalism and communism in particular, those of course both have historically often or usually been totalitarian and led to monstrosities. I am sure there are many people who identify as communists and fundamentalists who also value liberal democracy.