Study shows Aspergers and Autism different.

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Nambo
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04 Aug 2013, 5:37 am

Just in:-

Asperger's and Autism: Brain Differences Found

Read article :- HERE



MjrMajorMajor
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04 Aug 2013, 5:48 am

Interesting. I'm curious about why only 26 AS kids were compared to several hundred of the autism, and the control group. Until they understand whether the differences are core or developmental differences, then it really doesn't seem to tell much other than how much we don't know.



neilson_wheels
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04 Aug 2013, 6:31 am

That's not a big surprise is it? If all autistics brains functioned the same we would all have the same traits and impairments.



Fnord
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04 Aug 2013, 7:45 am

I'll wait for the peer-review phase to be completed before coming to any conclusions.

One study does not a principle make.



ruveyn
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04 Aug 2013, 8:23 am

Fnord wrote:
I'll wait for the peer-review phase to be completed before coming to any conclusions.

One study does not a principle make.


I agree. But these preliminary findings surely do call out for further study of the matter.

ruveyn



Waterfalls
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04 Aug 2013, 9:03 am

I think there are differences, though we had not sorted out how to adequately distinguish them. I think in the interest of science the psychologists' ADOS become a gold standard and what they observed in the present became what determines diagnosis. And, in a few short years, every child diagnosed with autism who learns to talk has come to be rediagnosed with Aspergers, in complete contradiction to the definition, which was then changed by DSM 5 to fit the need to pidgeonhole, since high functioning autism is, just my opinion, too hard to distinguish solely by observation using one structured test, from Aspergers.

I also think there have to be brain differences in people who struggle to communicate more, as may relate to the now defunct autism/Aspergers divide. If nothing else, our brains are plastic and speaking and understanding less and/or differently, like reading more or less, or hearing, or seeing, has an impact above and beyond whatever differences, if any, may exist at birth.

Whether the differences are fundamental, or cosmetic, that I have no idea. But I have no doubt that years of practice talking very young versus years of struggle without much practice until older impact our brains, and who we are, and how we experience the world, and ourselves, and our lives. And how others experience us, as well. Even if we start out the same.



Waterfalls
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04 Aug 2013, 9:19 am

Well this is frightening, I looked back and see you are all veterans.

I also see it took me many more words to say the same thing as the rest of you. That I find very interesting as well.



Fnord
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04 Aug 2013, 10:10 am

ruveyn wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I'll wait for the peer-review phase to be completed before coming to any conclusions. One study does not a principle make.
I agree. But these preliminary findings surely do call out for further study of the matter. ruveyn

Definately!

If there is any merit to the findings, then it's worth looking into.



MjrMajorMajor
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04 Aug 2013, 10:11 am

Waterfalls wrote:

I also think there have to be brain differences in people who struggle to communicate more, as may relate to the now defunct autism/Aspergers divide. If nothing else, our brains are plastic and speaking and understanding less and/or differently, like reading more or less, or hearing, or seeing, has an impact above and beyond whatever differences, if any, may exist at birth.
.


There needs to be more information, study, and a wider testing field here to have any kind of definitive answers. The article spoke of the neural connections distinct from both "autism" and "control" brains, but it didn't seem to really speak of what effect this may have (or how they mitigated the possible cross-diagnosis gray area.) And, again...26 vs 500?!?



Ann2011
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04 Aug 2013, 10:25 am

However, when looking at connectivity between other parts of the brain, the researchers saw differences. Connections between several regions in the left hemisphere were stronger in children with Asperger's than in both children with autism and normally developing children.

I found this passage interesting; I wonder why these connections would be strongest in Aspies.



GregCav
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04 Aug 2013, 10:48 am

We know we're different but similar, DSM-5 know we are different but similar.

And since it's a spectrum condition, brain scans will be all over the place. I think they've wasted their time on this one.



Waterfalls
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04 Aug 2013, 11:19 am

I went looking for more, think this is the link to the original article.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pd ... 11-175.pdf



neilson_wheels
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04 Aug 2013, 11:27 am

GregCav wrote:
We know we're different but similar, DSM-5 know we are different but similar.

And since it's a spectrum condition, brain scans will be all over the place. I think they've wasted their time on this one.


Have you read the article?



ruveyn
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04 Aug 2013, 4:27 pm

Here is the conclusion from the technical paper:

A diagnostic classifier based upon EEG spectral coherence
data, previously reported to accurately classify controls
and ASD subjects [36], has identified ASP subjects
as within the ASD population. Thus, there is justification
to consider Asperger’s Syndrome as broadly belonging
within the Autism Spectrum Disorders. However, there
is also evidence demonstrating that ASP subjects can be
physiologically distinguished from ASD subjects. Just as
dyslexia is now recognized as the low end tail of the
reading ability distribution curve [63], so Asperger’s Syndrome
may be similarly and usefully defined as a distinct
entity within the higher functioning tail of the autism
distribution curve. Larger samples are required to determine
whether ASP subjects should be considered as an
entity physiologically distinct from the ASD population
or whether they form an identifiable population within
the higher-functioning tail of ASD.
EEG spectral coherence data, as presented, provide
easily obtained, unbiased, quantitative, and replicable
measures of brain connectivity differences relevant to
these issues.


Sounds promising. I hope to see more following this path.

ruveyn



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04 Aug 2013, 9:46 pm

neilson_wheels wrote:
GregCav wrote:
We know we're different but similar, DSM-5 know we are different but similar.

And since it's a spectrum condition, brain scans will be all over the place. I think they've wasted their time on this one.


Have you read the article?


I read the article. The article was a reporter's responce of what he understood. Release articles often don't represent what is in the study. And the article didn't say much at all anyway.

Now that Waterfalls has linked to the study pdf, I will read that.



GregCav
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04 Aug 2013, 10:52 pm

Ok, I've spent an hour reading the study. There is a lot of new jargon to me, but I believe I understand what they are saying.

Their introduction talks about the difficulties of defining the differences (for tests) between Aspergers (ASP) and Autism (ASD).

Then they describe the study group, and the study method.

Thay appear to have invented a mathimatical analysis method which strips the copious amounts of EEG data of fluff, and reduces it all down to a set of 40 numerical indicators. The results look very impressive.


Quoted from the study:

The approach chosen in the current study was to determine whether there might be objective, unbiased, electrophysiological markers that can significantly distinguish ASP from ASD.

High coherence represents a measure of strong connectivity and low coherence a measure of weak connectivity [30].

These results show that subjects with ASP, although associated with the broader autism spectrum population, manifested significant physiological differences in EEG connectivity (as measured coherence factors) to distinguish them from the subjects with ASD.

These results suggest that the ASP subgroup discrimination from the larger ASD group was not the result of sampling artifact but in fact due to true group differences...