Tropes vs Women in Video Games: What is your honest opinion

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Greb
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09 Aug 2013, 3:01 am

Declension wrote:
Greb wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
As a rule of thumb, if you didn't fund any of the 150k, you should just shut the f**k up about the money.


Well, the problem is that I don't want to shut the f**k up. What are you're gonna do?


We're going to start thinking of you as an unpleasant person with a chip on your shoulder. Which is the usual punishment for being out of line. I'm not sure why you seem to think that the punishment would involve physical force.


And? It's quite a liberal pattern to tell everybody else to shut the f**k up because... wow... they speak the TRUTH. And honestly, I'm not gonna shut the f**k up. And don't give a [imagine what] about what you think about me.

puddingmouse wrote:
Kurgan wrote:

You'll also see far more shirtless scenes with Gabriel Knight than you'll see of his companion Grace Nakimura if you ever play the Gabriel Knight games.

I somehow doubt that this man from Tera Online is well protected in a swordfight.


Gabriel Knight, Broken Sword and - one you haven't mentioned - the Ace Attorney Games are all old-school point-and-click adventures that appeal to women as much as men. The reason for the strong female characters is, I think, the genre. Another example is Governor Marley from Monkey Island. You also don't see scantily-clad women in the Grand Strategy games I play, even though those are mostly aimed at men (because the emphasis is on the gameplay and AI.)

I think any commentary about sexism in games always focuses on specific genres - FPSs and platformers. Even in RPGs you get strong female characters.


Yeap. It's something as simple as: videogames are mainly a male market. And males are much more identified with male main characters.

Romance novels are mainly a female market. And... surprise!! ! main characters are usually females!! !


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Kurgan
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09 Aug 2013, 6:54 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
As a rule of thumb, if you didn't fund any of the 150k, you should just shut the f**k up about the money.

Quote:
she usually cherry picks games


It is amazing how the following page: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/B ... VideoGames only lists games that break the fourth wall.


False analogy. Sarkeesian almost only lists games with nonexistant storylines, where there's no such thing as strong or weak characters. Princess Peach is however no more sexist than the bumbling dads on television, where the wife is usually right.

If you deliberately look for sexism in a place, you'll always find something to use in a debate.



Jono
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09 Aug 2013, 8:49 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
As a rule of thumb, if you didn't fund any of the 150k, you should just shut the f**k up about the money.

Quote:
she usually cherry picks games


It is amazing how the following page: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/B ... VideoGames only lists games that break the fourth wall.


If she only uses games that have examples of the tropes she's talking about then she hasn't proven that they're a trend. She hasn't even provided any actual statistics with regards to how common they are, we've only got her word that they're common.



Greb
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09 Aug 2013, 9:01 am

Jono wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
As a rule of thumb, if you didn't fund any of the 150k, you should just shut the f**k up about the money.

Quote:
she usually cherry picks games


It is amazing how the following page: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/B ... VideoGames only lists games that break the fourth wall.


If she only uses games that have examples of the tropes she's talking about then she hasn't proven that they're a trend. She hasn't even provided any actual statistics with regards to how common they are, we've only got her word that they're common.


Hey, poor girl. What do you want her to do with just $150,00. Statistics? She needs more money to provide any statistics! Pay or shut your mouth up, as liberals say! Being feminist is very expensive. You can't imagine how many shoes she needed to buy to make the previous video :lol:


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Kurgan
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09 Aug 2013, 9:04 am

Greb wrote:
Declension wrote:
Greb wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
As a rule of thumb, if you didn't fund any of the 150k, you should just shut the f**k up about the money.


Well, the problem is that I don't want to shut the f**k up. What are you're gonna do?


We're going to start thinking of you as an unpleasant person with a chip on your shoulder. Which is the usual punishment for being out of line. I'm not sure why you seem to think that the punishment would involve physical force.


And? It's quite a liberal pattern to tell everybody else to shut the f**k up because... wow... they speak the TRUTH. And honestly, I'm not gonna shut the f**k up. And don't give a [imagine what] about what you think about me.

puddingmouse wrote:
Kurgan wrote:

You'll also see far more shirtless scenes with Gabriel Knight than you'll see of his companion Grace Nakimura if you ever play the Gabriel Knight games.

I somehow doubt that this man from Tera Online is well protected in a swordfight.


Gabriel Knight, Broken Sword and - one you haven't mentioned - the Ace Attorney Games are all old-school point-and-click adventures that appeal to women as much as men. The reason for the strong female characters is, I think, the genre. Another example is Governor Marley from Monkey Island. You also don't see scantily-clad women in the Grand Strategy games I play, even though those are mostly aimed at men (because the emphasis is on the gameplay and AI.)

I think any commentary about sexism in games always focuses on specific genres - FPSs and platformers. Even in RPGs you get strong female characters.


Yeap. It's something as simple as: videogames are mainly a male market. And males are much more identified with male main characters.

Romance novels are mainly a female market. And... surprise!! ! main characters are usually females!! !


47% of all gamers are female, which is why sexism in video games is no big deal anymore.



Greb
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09 Aug 2013, 9:15 am

Kurgan wrote:
47% of all gamers are female, which is why sexism in video games is no big deal anymore.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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09 Aug 2013, 10:12 am

Greb wrote:
And? It's quite a regressive conservative pattern to tell everybody else to shut the f**k up because... wow... they speak the TRUTH. And honestly, I'm not gonna shut the f**k up. And don't give a [imagine what] about what you think about me.


Fixed

Greb wrote:
Yeap. It's something as simple as: videogames are mainly a male market. And males are much more identified with male main characters.

Romance novels are mainly a female market. And... surprise!! ! main characters are usually females!! !


Hey I thought you were all about stopping the nefarious evil of bald assertions! Greb you're letting me down


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09 Aug 2013, 10:17 am

Greb wrote:
The first two minutes of this video describing what 'deep research' meant and for what shet needed $150,000 just worth it. The video is quite good. But the two first minutes are simply GLORIOUS.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJeX6F-Q63I[/youtube]
The pattern of presenting women as fundamentally weak
*Punch to the balls*
Ineffective
*Punch to the balls*
Or ultimately incapable
*So called damsel in distress once again throws a punch to the balls*

:lol:



Greb
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09 Aug 2013, 11:03 am

Vigilans wrote:
Hey I thought you were all about stopping the nefarious evil of bald assertions! Greb you're letting me down


Yeap. Of course, romance novels is a fundamentally female market and.... 'hey, this is bald assertion, how do you know that romance novels are read mainly by women? statistics required!! !!'

:lol:


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09 Aug 2013, 1:02 pm

Greb wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Hey I thought you were all about stopping the nefarious evil of bald assertions! Greb you're letting me down


Yeap. Of course, romance novels is a fundamentally female market and.... 'hey, this is bald assertion, how do you know that romance novels are read mainly by women? statistics required!! !!'

:lol:


So you read many romance novels, Greb?


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09 Aug 2013, 1:12 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
MindBlind wrote:
I also want to make a point about how Anita doesn't seem to understand satire.

Is Anita the one who doesn't understand it?

Satire mocks the ones in power, not the ones not in it. A "Satire" in which the damsel in distress is the same as a flag in a capture the flag game and you can make her fatter by feeding her is awful satire and it is still sexist.

It is like you didn't even listen to what Anita was saying? This sort of silly ass "Satire" seems to be an excuse to keep on using the sexist crap, but now you get to shield yourself under the "Satire" label.

A true satire of the trope is what Monkey Island did. The Satire goes against the dominating idea, rather than reinforce it.

Quote:
Oh and guys, why are we attacking sex appeal? We don't need to get rid of sex appeal - we just need to make a wider array of female characters in games. That's it. There's nothing wrong with having happy-hand-fun-time :P

There is if it is at the expense of others.


Who says that satire is supposed to attack the people in power? It can also attack attitudes people have towards the oppressed class. I mean, did you even read anything I said about the essay by Jonathan Swift?

You and Anita are not the arbiter for what constitutes satire and what doesn't.

And get over yourself - who the heck are you to judge other people for their sexuality? How does it hurt anyone to indulge in a silly fantasy? It is entirely possible to respect women's agency and enjoy a stupid adolescent male fantasy.

Grow up.



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09 Aug 2013, 3:22 pm

Image



LKL
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Declension
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10 Aug 2013, 5:55 am

Greb wrote:
And? It's quite a liberal pattern to tell everybody else to shut the f**k up because... wow... they speak the TRUTH.


It's not because of "speaking the TRUTH", it's because you were getting riled up about what other people are willing to spend money on. It's insulting to the people who paid money.

Greb wrote:
And honestly, I'm not gonna shut the f**k up. And don't give a [imagine what] about what you think about me.


That's cute. You should start a punk band or something.



Kurgan
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10 Aug 2013, 7:49 am

LKL wrote:


I don't mind either sexy women or sexy men in games. It's really no different than when a really hot chick is cast to play the ugly girl with no friends, or when a handsome guy is cast as a deadbeat alcoholic with no life.



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10 Aug 2013, 8:23 am

Honestly.........

"Video game logic" is fairly bizarre. Video games are populated by over-sexed people who, more often than not, sport anatomical proportions not found on actual humans.

This applies to both men and women.

I think the reason that men are usually featured as the main protagonists in video games is because so many video games revolve around physical violence, and men are stereotypically the ones who engage in the most physical violence. I speculate that we might see more female lead characters if game developers would make an effort to create games that do not primarily revolve around killing people and blowing things up. I generally stick to games where you can design your own character, like "Skyrim" or "Dragon's Dogma," which is an elegant solution the representation question.

Oh, and here's a question to the men: do any of you ever feel offended that men are almost always cast in violent roles?


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