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zette
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07 Aug 2013, 4:59 pm

Has anyone had their aspie in cub scouts? How did it go? I'm looking for a pack and den for my 2nd grader to join as a wolf, and I'm not too sure what I need to disclose to the pack leader and den leader at the beginning. I plan to be with DS at all pack and den meetings, but it's hard to predict what help he will need. In the past he had trouble with school assemblies, trying to get onstage and generally unable to sit still, so we will likely need to duck out of the big pack meetings early or skip them altogether. In art and music class he had trouble following directions, so I can see we might have trouble with him wanting to do things his own way during a craft activity. DS really wants to be in cub scouts. He even said to me once, "Let me guess, Aspergers kids aren't allowed," which really broke my heart. I want to make this a positive experience for him.



DW_a_mom
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07 Aug 2013, 5:37 pm

Since the BSA troops and packs are staffed by volunteers, I know that it will not be the same everywhere, but here scouting has been extremely open to kids on the spectrum. They attempt to be an inclusive organization, with the one condition being that they hold onto the God and reverence part, so being militantly atheist may not go well.

My son recently earned his Eagle and, I have to say, scouting has been amazing for him. He joined as a Webolo but had wanted to join for years; took us a while to find a suitable pack. He loves what I call the tangibility of it: what it takes to succeed and advance is very clearly defined, and your achievements are recognized by visual markers. Scouting has taught him how to work in groups and how to be a leader. Certainly, there have been rough spots and many times I crossed my fingers that he would be OK, but the structure of the program was something he always did well in. Plus, having the opportunity to be outdoors so often really helps my son center himself. Sometimes I think he was born to be a mountain man: he is quite competent selecting camp sites, pitching a tent, making a fire, cooking outdoors, and selecting a safe hiking route. But ask him to run the dishwasher at home and he'll use the wrong soap. To him, the outdoor skills have simply made sense: once he is taught what to do, he remembers. The logical connections click for him.

I didn't tell the troop about my son's ASD until he started doing overnight activities, largely because it just didn't seem relevant when I was around anyway. Even then, I circumvented a bit, mostly just letting them know that it was really important to let my son be by himself if he asked to be by himself. But the information got spelled out in his medical forms, and it was something I felt I should discuss in detail with the volunteers that were supervising the week long camps. When my son was a den chief (paid staff) last summer at cub camp, he was told when a child was ASD, so I think most people do disclose. He actually had a non-verbal child one week.

This is a meticulous organization with very clear rules and expectations, although sometimes individual packs or troops vary. That works super well for Aspies, and their families. At the pack level, you can expect to be very involved, since keeping lots of extra adults around is a key element of youth protection. Once in Boy Scouts, you'll have to let go a lot more, but by then your son will hopefully be ready.

It did take a long time for my son to form friendships in the organization, but that is just the way he is. He was always accepted, he just didn't feel close to the other kids and didn't miss it.

The woman who headed up my son's Eagle Board of Review, by the way, was thoroughly impressed by his thoughtfulness and composure, plus his pure love of scouting. My son has grown so much through the experiences of scouting. Highly recommend it. And he was like your son, btw - his choice to join, not ours. I could see the draw the first time he looked over the uniforms and the handbooks. The whole thing was extremely appealing to him.


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benh72
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07 Aug 2013, 5:47 pm

I was an undiagnosed aspie in cub scouts when I was young.
The group was full of bullies, who would be mean to me whenever the leader was out of sight.
We went on a snow trip, and my Dad had to come with me because I was so anxious.
Turns out that some older kids sexually abused some of the younger kids on that trip - it only came to light this year, 30 years later!
I don't expect your kid will have anywhere near the horror story I experienced, but then again neither my family nor I knew why I was anxious and difficult as a child, so perhaps having the diagnosis will make all the difference.
I'd suggest you make sure you have good communication with the scout leader and other parents regardless, as you don't want to be the last to know if your child is not happy and cub scouts are not working out for him, as was the case with me.



MiahClone
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07 Aug 2013, 7:13 pm

I had my two older boys in Cub Scouts when they were 6-7 and 7-8. We didn't come back to the group after the youngest was born. I loved the activities. The boys loved the activities. What I didn't like was the snotty stuck up behavior from the other parents. The uniforms and supplies are so expensive that in this poor, rural area, for the most part only the more well-to-do are able to be in Cub Scouts, and we're not really a part of that group. I got their uniforms used off Ebay. I know this is not something you'd run into everywhere, but there are a select few jobs in this area that let people make five times or more than what the average income is, and those who make it tend to make a very big deal about how much better they are than anyone not in one of those jobs.

Also, an experienced that kind of soured me to the whole experience and to people who make a big deal about their kid's diagnosis: there was another boy in the group who had a diagnosis of AS. I am not at all sure what I am going to do with the Sprout's diagnosis later, if the testing gives him one. He doesn't function at all similar to NT's around other kids, but I don't want to be on the other side of a situation like the one I had with Cub scouts. The boy with the AS diagnosis was higher functioning than mine overall, but because mine didn't have the official diagnosis at that time everyone treated him like he ought to be behaving NT, while at the same time, giving this other boy every benefit of the doubt and accommodation. Of course not the other boy's fault, but I actually had someone tell me, when I was trying to ask for some accommodation, "Your son isn't autistic like hers, so why would we give him that?" Again, not the boy's fault, or even the other mom's who was mainly looking out for her kid like any mom should. (Although she was in on the head nodding and saying, "You could never understand, since your's is only delayed not autistic.")

This area also has a bad reputation in the actual Boy Scouts for sex abuse, and the leaders acted like I should just be happy to hand over my moderately delayed 11 year old to go off alone with them. Maybe I'm overprotective, but I'm not ashamed of that. (I also used to work in Child Protective Services, no way I'm sending my 11 year old off with people I barely know.) Now, of course, my two oldest are older. The two of them could be in the group together to watch out for each other, but my middle child is an out of the closet non-heterosexual, so we're at odds with some of the beliefs and policies of the BSA.

Anyway, while we were in it, the kids definitely enjoyed it, and the expectations for acceptable behavior for a room full of little boys is very different than a public school classroom. My ADHD kid never stood out too much in the group, even though he couldn't function at all in a classroom. The times when the entire group had to sit down and be quiet were limited in duration, and usually something was going on that would grab their attention way better than a principal giving announcements, like at a school assembly. They try to get the boys involved as much as possible, so each group would often get up and have something to move around for even during the longer meetings.



DW_a_mom
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08 Aug 2013, 4:47 am

MiahClone, I think your post points out quite well the pitfalls of having an organization that is so closely tied to the personalities of the volunteer leadership. I've seen the tone and objectives of my son's troop change drastically with the changing of scoutmasters, but fortunately he was able to roll with it.

You may also have a point about some troops playing well off, because I was surprised watching the jamboree videos, looking at the pictures, and listening to the stories at how much some troops must have spent. We live in one of the wealthiest counties in the nation, and yet we let our boys go there with a fraction of the extras. A scout is supposed to be thrifty and they take that seriously around here.

What I do want to note is something your pack probably neglected to tell you, and that is that scouting offers reduced fees and scholarships to basically anyone that asks. Totally confidential. We don't use it so I don't know the process, but I've been told that over a third of my son's troop is now on scholarship, and I'm pretty sure some of those kids were part of the Jamboree crew, also on scholarship. The only reason I know about it at all is because I'm on the troop committee, but I have no names, just a ratio, as it affects certain troop decisions.

Also, just so people know, as of January 1st the membership policy for the boys will no longer include the so called gay ban. The ban will stand for now for adult leaders, but not scouts.

Without getting too deep into politics, I was hesitant to let my son join because I don't exactly fit the stereotypical scouting parent portrait, and I questioned some of their policies. But, I also believe we have to let our kids find their own road, and my son really wanted this. As I said before, its been great for him.


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zette
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08 Aug 2013, 9:07 am

So, should I disclose to the pack and later den leader at the beginning, or wait until some behavior crops up that needs explanation? If I do disclose, what do I say or avoid saying? I think it would be helpful for DS if he could meet the den leader and see the meeting space before the rest of the kids arrive.

I met with the special needs coordinator for an adjoining council, and her advice was basically to visit several packs before choosing. Would it be weird to ask to visit a couple of dens, or are you supposed to just go with whichever one you're assigned to?



MiahClone
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08 Aug 2013, 12:05 pm

I would think, definitely tell the leader of your son's group, and put it on the application so the leaders know. I (and this is totally colored by my own experiences that I already shared) wouldn't tell the other parents unless I had to. Like I said, everything I have seen shows me that people in charge of large groups of boys tend to be drastically more forgiving of behaviors than people in charge of mixed groups, so it might not come up. Or it might if lots of other boys being unruly is likely to set your son off.

Really, I guess, beyond the people in charge, whether or not you tell the other parents and kids should be based on how you normally handle those type of situations. Do you tell random people at the park? People you see once a year at family reunions? Parents at birthday parties? Your church, if you go to one? Other parents at school functions? Decide where you think the parents will fall on your normal disclosure rubric. And if that puts them on the non-disclosure side, decide under what circumstances (meltdown, stimming, him totally missing a social cue) you'd change your mind to disclosure.



chris5000
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08 Aug 2013, 1:23 pm

I really enjoyed the scouts

the activity's were the best I liked having the structure

I would not disclose right away
see how he does stay for the first couple meetings



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08 Aug 2013, 1:44 pm

I am familiar with some youth organizations and youth camps in NL as a volunteer.

The quality of the local groups can differ a lot, for a great part this differs because of the skills and attitude of the involved volunteers. Some leaders interact easily with aspies and auties, others need to make a lot of effort. In that regard I would advice to visit different groups. Cultures can also be different.

About disclosing information. At least tell the most important information first, like extreme aversion for touching, certain foodstuffs, certain (extreme) behavioural triggers, etc. When I was a regular volunteer for a local group for children with special needs, we used to have a longer talk with parents after 3 a 4 weeks. When you are not offered such a talk, I would ask for it. Then you could give some more information. However, do not give too much information.... since the social situation is different the behaviour can be different then expected. Also it gives the volunteers a more 'open mind'. On some talks we sometimes had to slow down the parents to avoid getting the entire medical file, that was too much.



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09 Aug 2013, 12:23 pm

Depends on your son a lot and how he interacts and behaves. My daughter is in girl scouts, she is a daisy. With her currentl level of social skills, behaviors, abilities, etc... I had to volunteer and be one of the troop leaders. I don't mind, I had sort of planned on it anyway. But had I not been girl scout minded... there is no WAY I could have just dropped her off at meetings and expected everything to be "OK". Whether the leader know or not. I pretty mich have to disclose to everyone.

Just last week I took a week off of work and spent the whole week at girl scout day camp, because she wanted to go. She loves scouting, hates the girls (mostly). There was no way, none, that I could just drop her off at camp every day and hope that no one noticed.

My advice is to volunteer, be a den mother, stick around for the meetings. At least for awhile.



b_edward
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09 Aug 2013, 1:21 pm

I sincerely hope that others' experiences are not like the experience we had. I sincerely wished we had our son diagnosed earlier, and then disclosed the aspergers diagnosis to the Scout Leaders.

He would come home crying too often because of bullying, and sometimes we would find the Webelos leaders scolding him instead of helping to protect him. And he would get singled out for "not paying attention" and other infractions, even though he was, in reality, paying attention more effectively than any of the others.



zette
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10 Aug 2013, 10:12 am

Here's what I'm thinking of saying when I call the pack leader. Is it too much?

Voicemail: Thanks for emailing me info about pack 123. Could we arrange a time to talk? My son has some challenges that I'd like to discuss before we attend the first meeting.

Phone call: Thanks for taking the time to talk with me. DS has his heart set on joining cub scouts, but he does have some extra challenges that the pack and den leaders should know about. He has been diagnosed with Aspergers and ADHD. I talked with the Special Needs coordinator for our council, and she recommended that he join a mainstream pack and den. She suggested that kids who need an aide at school should have a parent present at all times, which we had planned to do anyway. Does your pack currently have any kids with Aspergers or high-functioning autism?

I plan to attend all events and meetings with DS to support him. Sometimes we might need to leave a pack meeting early if he becomes overwhelmed. The coordinator suggested that we should visit a few packs and dens to find one that seems to be a good fit. Do you have a den leader in mind that tends to be easy going and flexible?

[I'll only go into this part if the pack leader asks what accommodations DS will need]
DS has had some trouble at big school assemblies, so I think it might be best if at first he just goes to den meetings and wait until he knows some of the boys and is comfortable before going to a pack meeting. I might come and video a meeting so he knows what to expect. He tends to get hyper the first time we visit a new place, so if we could visit the den meeting location and meet the den leader beforehand that would be helpful. It would be better to have a den with one leader rather than one where the parents are rotating planning the meeting.

DS tends to get frustrated easily, and his emotional self-control is very immature -- he'll yell out if a craft gets frustrating and the other boys may think he's a crybaby. He can sit still about as long as a typical 5 year old. At the first sign of trouble I'll plan to take him outside for a break, and there are times we'll probably need to leave early. Socially he's a bit odd -- he'll talk your ears off about Star Wars and minecraft.

I think scouts could really be a positive experience for DS. Someplace where he can belong to a group and feel successful by earning merit badges. I'd like to be a very active volunteer with the den and help make it go smoothly for everyone.

Thank you again for taking time to talk to me today. We're excited about joining scouts, and look forward to the first meeting.



CocoUKKraut
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10 Aug 2013, 2:46 pm

Hi, I have thought about taking my son to scouts too, personally I hated the Guides, but my hubby loved Scouts and kept going right up to 16/18 (sorry I am not familiar with the terminology). It has been interesting hearing the feedback, I hope to contribute more as I learn and adapt better, I am pretty new to all this