I have ASD but sometimes it feels like I'm a psychopath
11 Aug 2013, 5:34 am
kapo wrote:
Thanks guys, it's nice to have people who understand.
My guess is that she was giving you signals that would have been clear to an NT, telling you she was falling in love with you. At that point, most NTs, if they didn't feel the same way, would have backed off from her long before she actually said the words. But you, being oblivious to her signals, unintentionally communicated that you were OK with her falling in love with you and maybe even felt the same way about her.
Typical AS-NT communication breakdown. Do the people who say this to you know you have AS? Just saying you're blunt, don't lie and aren't preoccupied with social interaction won't be enough for them to understand what happened, because a blunt NT would have spotted her nonverbal cues and brought up the conversation much earlier to let her down before she got too close.
Anyway, you're nothing like a psychopath. Psychopaths can't love, but are perfectly happy to fake love if it helps them manipulate someone. They often deliberately get people to fall in love with them, use those people as much as they can, and then either dump the person or get dumped once the 'rose-colored glasses' come off (ie, the person finally realizes what the psychopath is really like).
Yeah, you're probably right on that.
That's the thing, she knew, and the people around me all know, that I has AS. I've explained it in depth to her.
Ah.. I know I'm not, it's just that NTs are always saying I'm manipulative and emotionless. Kinda ironic that I'm the opposite of that.
Ettina wrote:
Quote:
Moreover, people are blaming me for "letting her fall in love" with me. This girl is a grown woman, am I supposed to police everyone's feeling when they interact with me? I don't understand why people are angry at me when I did nothing wrong.
My guess is that she was giving you signals that would have been clear to an NT, telling you she was falling in love with you. At that point, most NTs, if they didn't feel the same way, would have backed off from her long before she actually said the words. But you, being oblivious to her signals, unintentionally communicated that you were OK with her falling in love with you and maybe even felt the same way about her.
Typical AS-NT communication breakdown. Do the people who say this to you know you have AS? Just saying you're blunt, don't lie and aren't preoccupied with social interaction won't be enough for them to understand what happened, because a blunt NT would have spotted her nonverbal cues and brought up the conversation much earlier to let her down before she got too close.
Anyway, you're nothing like a psychopath. Psychopaths can't love, but are perfectly happy to fake love if it helps them manipulate someone. They often deliberately get people to fall in love with them, use those people as much as they can, and then either dump the person or get dumped once the 'rose-colored glasses' come off (ie, the person finally realizes what the psychopath is really like).
Yeah, you're probably right on that.
That's the thing, she knew, and the people around me all know, that I has AS. I've explained it in depth to her.
Ah.. I know I'm not, it's just that NTs are always saying I'm manipulative and emotionless. Kinda ironic that I'm the opposite of that.
Huh, after reading both of these quotes think I see why the "other" people are upset with you.
For your act to be evil (and thus wrong, bad, etc), it would need to be intentional. If you intentionally mislead the girl.
Now, you did not intentionally mislead the girl. So this is not the case. However...
If you did not intentionally mislead the girl, the "other" people would expect you to be acting as if "you" made a mistake.
Since you are not, because you see no fault in your actions, the "other" people are left to conclude you did in fact act to mislead her intentionally.
They think this because people can and do mislead others, it is common. The think this because you are not treating the situation as though you made an unfortunate error, leaving (in their minds) that the only remaining option... you intentionally mislead the girl, and have no remorse for doing so.
11 Aug 2013, 5:50 am
They are using false logic. Probably this is intuitive for NTs. It seems a common enough occurrence. If it is “generally practical” or “often close enough” then the logic is sound to them.
But I’m not sure they would even regard the process of coming to their conclusions as dictated by any sort of logical process, it is likely just the default methodology to their thinking, intuitive, instinctual. Fluid. Thoughtless.
1.If people who experiences remorse or regret, it means they have done something unintended.
2.If someone does not experience remorse or regret, it means they did something intentionally.
1 follows logically. 2 does not follow logically, but is “close enough” for the average person.
I think that people are upset with you, even after you have explained your differences in detail, is a failure on their part. First, a failure to empathize with you, second, a failure to think clearly about the situation.
11 Aug 2013, 9:06 am
NarcissusSavage wrote:
They are using false logic. Probably this is intuitive for NTs. It seems a common enough occurrence. If it is “generally practical” or “often close enough” then the logic is sound to them.
But I’m not sure they would even regard the process of coming to their conclusions as dictated by any sort of logical process, it is likely just the default methodology to their thinking, intuitive, instinctual. Fluid. Thoughtless.
1.If people who experiences remorse or regret, it means they have done something unintended.
2.If someone does not experience remorse or regret, it means they did something intentionally.
1 follows logically. 2 does not follow logically, but is “close enough” for the average person.
I think that people are upset with you, even after you have explained your differences in detail, is a failure on their part. First, a failure to empathize with you, second, a failure to think clearly about the situation.
But I’m not sure they would even regard the process of coming to their conclusions as dictated by any sort of logical process, it is likely just the default methodology to their thinking, intuitive, instinctual. Fluid. Thoughtless.
1.If people who experiences remorse or regret, it means they have done something unintended.
2.If someone does not experience remorse or regret, it means they did something intentionally.
1 follows logically. 2 does not follow logically, but is “close enough” for the average person.
I think that people are upset with you, even after you have explained your differences in detail, is a failure on their part. First, a failure to empathize with you, second, a failure to think clearly about the situation.
I don't think this is quite right. It's not that they have faulty logic or are failing to think, but rather that their logical train of thought is based on the false premise that everyone is neurologically the sam and share a common set of behavioral displays and emotional language.
Even when they are told this is not the case, this premise is so fundamental to all their interactions and experience that they cannot really believe that we are not all internally alike.
The don't believe you when you explain your neurology to them, so it's logical that they are angry with you when they misinterpret your behavior.
The more intense the interpersonal component of a relationship, the more this will be true. I assume from the first post that the relationship was sexual. If so, this is particularly true in those cases.
Consider how many stories, novels, plays, films and songs are about miscommunication in sexual and romantic relationships among NTs. If they have that much trouble navigating this kind of relationship with people who are so much like them that they share near telepathic empathy with each other, how much more will they misunderstand people who do not share the neurology that underpins their social communication?
11 Aug 2013, 10:20 am
Quote:
1.If people who experiences remorse or regret, it means they have done something unintended.
2.If someone does not experience remorse or regret, it means they did something intentionally.
2.If someone does not experience remorse or regret, it means they did something intentionally.
Actually, there's research to support this thought process among NTs.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2044-8309.1989.tb00879.x/abstract
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224545.1994.9710877#.Ugeq7tK-q3k
(Incidentally, NTs do indeed struggle with logical thinking. But I have not seen any evidence that AS people are any better at thinking logically - we just tend to start from different assumptions. Thinking logically requires a deliberate effort to train your mind, which both AS and NT people can do. I've seen plenty of people here on WP who think they're logical people, but they really aren't as good at logic as they perceive themselves to be.)
11 Aug 2013, 11:09 am
Ettina wrote:
Quote:
1.If people who experiences remorse or regret, it means they have done something unintended.
2.If someone does not experience remorse or regret, it means they did something intentionally.
2.If someone does not experience remorse or regret, it means they did something intentionally.
Actually, there's research to support this thought process among NTs.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2044-8309.1989.tb00879.x/abstract
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224545.1994.9710877#.Ugeq7tK-q3k
(Incidentally, NTs do indeed struggle with logical thinking. But I have not seen any evidence that AS people are any better at thinking logically - we just tend to start from different assumptions. Thinking logically requires a deliberate effort to train your mind, which both AS and NT people can do. I've seen plenty of people here on WP who think they're logical people, but they really aren't as good at logic as they perceive themselves to be.)
Interesting references. The results do support the conclusion that the people who had the negative perception of the OP could not believe his self account because his actions fit another pattern that they were familiar with.
Regarding logical thinking, I think it's obvious that human minds are capable of logical analysis, but logic is not the structure that underlies thought (that's probably some system of weighting alternative options based on habits, emotions, sensations, transient chemical states and logic.) We are not logical beings, but we are beings with the capacity for logic.
11 Aug 2013, 7:30 pm
redrobin62 wrote:
Progressive social communication.
I use that term to mean some of us are incapable of having social communication or meetings with people which are progressive, that is, moves the conversation forward in a positive way.
I use that term to mean some of us are incapable of having social communication or meetings with people which are progressive, that is, moves the conversation forward in a positive way.
I've never called it that but I'm totally with you.
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