I'm so sick of this whole aspie women have it easier crap

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Cafeaulait
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30 Dec 2013, 6:48 pm

Dantac wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
OMG I has it so much easier being a female.....if you mean its easier to get laid by someone who will just abandon you.


...yet you conveniently skip the fact that a relationship did happen before that. See, that's the big difference here. It really is easier for you to get into a relationship but its just as hard as it is for AS guys for that relationship to work. Being awkward and seemingly not confident is not a turn-off for guys.

In contrast, a guy that does not appear confident (aka, the social 'performance' via speech pattern and body language) has practically no chance with any girl.

Having guys 'hit' on you is a self esteem builder even if those turn out into sour relationships. For guys, constant rejection/failure to even get a first date and not having relationship is a self esteem killer. Both situations turn into vicious cycles of their own. Its like a candle burning itself from both ends.


Uhm, yes it is.



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30 Dec 2013, 7:02 pm

Just read this today and it made me think of this thread :) A survey was done of men and to this question:

"What do you, as a man, most admire about women in general?"

The number one answer was:

"1. Social skills, nurturing nature, compassion, sensitivity, listening skills, focus on relationships and bonding (friends, family, community)"

My reaction was, "Dear God, I hope my husband doesn't die before me because if he does, apparently the entire male population seeks out things that are the polar opposite of me." I am compassionate, but not coddlingly so. Same with nurturing-- I try to help people grow and I let them know that I care about them very much, but it comes off as either weird or overly demanding to most folks. Anyways, I just kind of laughed that the number one things that men look for in women are generally deficits of the AS population lol. We're a bit screwed :lol:



Shau
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30 Dec 2013, 10:13 pm

Dantac wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
OMG I has it so much easier being a female.....if you mean its easier to get laid by someone who will just abandon you.


...yet you conveniently skip the fact that a relationship did happen before that. See, that's the big difference here. It really is easier for you to get into a relationship but its just as hard as it is for AS guys for that relationship to work. Being awkward and seemingly not confident is not a turn-off for guys.

In contrast, a guy that does not appear confident (aka, the social 'performance' via speech pattern and body language) has practically no chance with any girl.

Having guys 'hit' on you is a self esteem builder even if those turn out into sour relationships. For guys, constant rejection/failure to even get a first date and not having relationship is a self esteem killer. Both situations turn into vicious cycles of their own. Its like a candle burning itself from both ends.


Replace "not a turn-off" with "not as big a turn-off" and I agree with everything you said.

bearsandsyrup wrote:
Just read this today and it made me think of this thread :) A survey was done of men and to this question:


What a guy says he wants, what a guy thinks he wants, and what a guy actually goes for can all be completely different things. I don't really care what a bunch of guys said in some survey. Give me a survey that shows what kind of women the men actually end up with.



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31 Dec 2013, 7:08 pm

Dantac wrote:
Being awkward and seemingly not confident is not a turn-off for guys.


That is true, and makes me think of how things look when you "switch the roles". I think an example would be that if you were embarrassed/shy by a woman flirting with you - she knows this is a sign of attraction but you are just too shy for her. Odds on she then walks away and rejoins her friends. If a man does that with a woman, he will likely persist because he knows she likes him and after all, it's okay if she's shy right? There's a good chance she likes you, and the blushing is attractive.

Dantac wrote:
In contrast, a guy that does not appear confident (aka, the social 'performance' via speech pattern and body language) has practically no chance with any girl.


To a degree women can make social 'boo boo's', and the man is likely to just see past it, if nothing else just out of a sense of chivalry. I have so often heard women claim that personality traits are more important than looks (even though it always helps), but they are no less shallow for discriminating against personality traits than men who want a truly "stunning" woman. Many women say they want a man who can make them laugh - that is, social skills, communication skills, confidence and wit are essential. If you don't have those, or if you 'fumble' the approach, she's just not attracted to you (laughing at you 'getting your newb on' doesn't count either).

Dantac wrote:
Having guys 'hit' on you is a self esteem builder even if those turn out into sour relationships. For guys, constant rejection/failure to even get a first date and not having relationship is a self esteem killer. Both situations turn into vicious cycles of their own. Its like a candle burning itself from both ends.


It's a self esteem builder for sure, and it's why you can find so many women with low self-esteem on dating sites - the attention they receive gives them a boost (and they never seem to leave). I'm an optimist though, so I'm not sure it's a vicious cycle, but you do have to learn not to be knocked back or have lowered confidence when you're not seeing any results.



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01 Jan 2014, 1:46 am

The process for women is obviously much more passive. This means men have to learn a lot more stupid skills than women do. NT men are rejected an average of 150 times for every one person who says yes, add opposed to about 10 for women. I'm sure AS men face a lot more rejection than average. We also find it difficult to even start so we have a much longer time to go before odds even out. Life is still a popularity contest and AS makes those nearly impossible to win.



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01 Jan 2014, 8:46 am

*I haven't read this entire topic :wink: *

I think Hale_Bopp has a point. You see, things ARE different for men and women, and we need to take that into account. Men tend to be -forgive me the wording, not a native speaker- more 'desperate' or more willing to have sex with someone they don't find particularly attractive, that's because the sex is more important to them.

Now, thinking of that, I think that there's a difference for girls between 'real dates' and 'fake dates'. (again, no better wording)

Real dates are with the guys who genuinely find us interesting in whatever way, who think we're interesting/nice/attractive/whatever. It's like when a girl wants to date a guy she likes for whatever reason.

Then, there's the population of guys who just 'f***k anything'. They don't find the woman attractive, interesting, funny, nice, whatever, they just know she was born female and that's enough for them.

There's always men from the second category. They just wanna have sex. They don't find you actually interesting or attractive, you just have the right genitals and aren't TOO off-putting. This category of dates tend to be non-existent for men, as far as I can see, because women are less likely (afaik) to fake interest or attraction.

Basically, it's like this to me:
-Girls CAN get a date more easily, usually, but such ''dates'' can be totally meaningless. They don't mean they have anyone interested in them at all, she's just of the right gender and not too ugly/whatever.
-Guys, especially AS, have a harder time getting dates, but once they get one there's a higher chance of it being sincere.
==> Girls and guys have the same difficulty obtaining ''real dates'', girls just have to sift through more insincere men who just want t have sex. As said, they aren't actually ''interested'' in her, it's just that she's a woman.

I know several women, including myself, who have issues with this. It's really hard to tell if he's actually interested or just wanting to have SOME woman. For example, right now there's a guy I find 'interesting' to some extent, but I really doubt/question his motives. It's really hard to tell.

But many men here seem to just focus on ''women get dates more easily'' without recognising the fact that many of these ''dates'' are in no way coming from actual interest in her as a person. I think with people on the autism spectrum it's about the same in terms of 'real dates'.

And it really sucks to have someone around just because you have an extra hole. It really does.



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01 Jan 2014, 11:47 am

YourMajesty wrote:
*I haven't read this entire topic :wink: *

I think Hale_Bopp has a point. You see, things ARE different for men and women, and we need to take that into account. Men tend to be -forgive me the wording, not a native speaker- more 'desperate' or more willing to have sex with someone they don't find particularly attractive, that's because the sex is more important to them.

Now, thinking of that, I think that there's a difference for girls between 'real dates' and 'fake dates'. (again, no better wording)

Real dates are with the guys who genuinely find us interesting in whatever way, who think we're interesting/nice/attractive/whatever. It's like when a girl wants to date a guy she likes for whatever reason.

Then, there's the population of guys who just 'f***k anything'. They don't find the woman attractive, interesting, funny, nice, whatever, they just know she was born female and that's enough for them.

There's always men from the second category. They just wanna have sex. They don't find you actually interesting or attractive, you just have the right genitals and aren't TOO off-putting. This category of dates tend to be non-existent for men, as far as I can see, because women are less likely (afaik) to fake interest or attraction.

Basically, it's like this to me:
-Girls CAN get a date more easily, usually, but such ''dates'' can be totally meaningless. They don't mean they have anyone interested in them at all, she's just of the right gender and not too ugly/whatever.
-Guys, especially AS, have a harder time getting dates, but once they get one there's a higher chance of it being sincere.
==> Girls and guys have the same difficulty obtaining ''real dates'', girls just have to sift through more insincere men who just want t have sex. As said, they aren't actually ''interested'' in her, it's just that she's a woman.


ok,so a woman who can get sex,and choose to have sex with these ''losers''are not
equal to men,who can't even get dates at all.

but if a woman is actual not sleeping with these ''losers''and waiting for
a legit boyfriend,then yes,you make a point.

but any women who choose to have sex with these ''losers''
then complain about it,is bunch of bs.



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01 Jan 2014, 12:51 pm

I guess what I'm gathering from this discussion is that:

Women generally are not seeking sex, just for the sake of sex. They are generally seeking a relationship, and if they are 10x more likely to "strike out" in that regard (i.e., only 1 in 10 men has "potential"), doesn't that "level the playing field" to some extent???

OTOH, if the only thing a man is interested in IS sex, he's probably "transmitting" that intent in some way, so a woman who has no interest in a sex-only relationship is going to be turned off, and the man will "strike out" 9/10 times?? Maybe NT women are better able to read their intent, which leaves Aspie women at a disadvantage?

So even if women are able to get 10x more dates than men, the chances of having one that's "worthwhile" (in the context of forming a relationship) is about the same as for a man, assuming he's interested in something other than just sex.

IOW, for a man, *getting* a date is half the battle (or even 9/10 of the battle). For a woman, getting a *good* date is 9/10 of the battle.....



billiscool
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01 Jan 2014, 1:17 pm

Eureka13 wrote:

So even if women are able to get 10x more dates than men, the chances of having one that's "worthwhile" (in the context of forming a relationship) is about the same as for a man, assuming he's interested in something other than just sex.

IOW, for a man, *getting* a date is half the battle (or even 9/10 of the battle). For a woman, getting a *good* date is 9/10 of the battle.....


no,it's not the same.A woman getting dates or sex,is not equal to a man that
can't get dates at all or even to women who can't get dates,either.



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01 Jan 2014, 1:53 pm

I hate to bring evolutionary psychology into this, but is it possible that, since men and women have very different roles in the reproductive process, and they therefore have different mating priorities, they are going to perceive vastly different situations as either "difficult" and/or "easy?"

This is one of the reasons I never quite understood the whole, "Who has it easier?" debate. It seems obvious to me that the state of being male or female is going to greatly influence one's perspective on the search for love/sex. If you add a dash of autism to the mix, things get even more complicated.

I wouldn't know who "has it easier" as I've never been male and have no basis for comparison (but I don't envy anyone who tries to date NT women as I readily admit that NT women are a pain in the arse :D).


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01 Jan 2014, 6:05 pm

Eureka13 wrote:

So even if women are able to get 10x more dates than men, the chances of having one that's "worthwhile" (in the context of forming a relationship) is about the same as for a man, assuming he's interested in something other than just sex.

IOW, for a man, *getting* a date is half the battle (or even 9/10 of the battle). For a woman, getting a *good* date is 9/10 of the battle.....


This logic is a bit backward, because it does not consider that if a date ends in only casual relationships, and is thus not worthwhile, why would women continue to have such dates? Bear in mind that if they did not want to have these types of relationships, they wouldn't do this on dates.

They will also gain the experience and personal development that is necessary for future relationships, short term or otherwise. This is huge.



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01 Jan 2014, 6:56 pm

Re-reading what I wrote, it was very awkwardly done. :)

I guess what I'm thinking is that women may get the dates, even if they are bad dates. But if a bad date has the effect of making the woman feel bad about herself - either by the guy being uninteresting/unappealing, or by sleeping with the guy once or twice only to be dumped - isn't the net result the same as a guy not being able to get as many (or any) dates? Males and females then both develop "complexes" about being unable to have a relationship?



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03 Jan 2014, 7:27 am

Ron Burgundy: What? You pooped in the refrigerator? And you ate the whole... wheel of cheese? How'd you do that? Heck, I'm not even mad; that's amazing. How 'bout we get you in your p.j.'s and we hit the hay.



mouthyb
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03 Jan 2014, 5:48 pm

.... I really hate the whole alpha-beta-omega thing. It's bloody stupid. I hear that s**t and I immediately think "well here's someone who doesn't understand social relations very well and is about to say stupid s**t about women." In the last bloody twenty years I've been on the internet, A follows B like a sad little train and caboose. The social milleux around dating is WAY more complex than that.

I am an Aspie woman. I get dates very easily, even though I don't believe I'm all that attractive, mostly because I listen to people when they talk. People find me fairly easy to talk to, mostly because I focus on them when they talk, ask leading questions and practice certain non-verbal behaviors I've learned, like leaning in slightly, occasional eye contact, and small smiles. I'm s**t at flirting (if I am attracted to them in the slightest, I'm awkward as hell until it makes it into the bedroom), but because I listen to people when they talk, they find themselves talking more. They feel like I care or I believe they're important. After awhile, they realize they feel comfortable, and believe it or not, finding someone comfortable for them to talk to makes a huge difference--yes, even for men. I've also spent years honing my ability to make witty remarks and be funny. Those don't hurt.

I don't date what people persist in thinking of as "alphas". I like nerds, geeks, weirdos and people who are otherwise not what the larger society would think of as being socially adept. Since my interests are kinky, as well as my autism and the residuals of a really sh***y childhood, I have a MUCH smaller dating pool than most women. I date physicists, mathematicians, theorists of all stripes and computer scientists, fer christ's sake--wanna talk about an awkward population?

I also date people without jobs. I'm looking for someone I'm compatible with, not someone with the largest cock, the best social skills, or the best job.

While I may get asked out often, it does not follow that the relationships would be good or, for that matter, that the sex would be good--I turn people down if I feel from the way they behave (inconsiderate, whiny, and sh***y) that the sex would be awful. Plus, as Eureka pointed out, then I feel like s**t about myself for awhile, even though I know it's not my fault that my date behaved like crap.

What I do know is that men who persist in treating me like I owe them sex at some point, like they're settling for sex with me, like they're desperate to get some, and/or like they resent me for 'having it easier' because I get asked out make me want to run screaming. I don't want to be on a date with someone who resents me, is preemptively angry at me, believes the world is "out to get them" or otherwise displays evidence of poor emotional and self awareness.

Why? Because there is NO chance they will ever have a good relationship or good communication with me. They're too busy ignoring me for what they think the world (and women) are like. :evil:


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03 Jan 2014, 6:11 pm

mouthyb wrote:
I am an Aspie woman. I get dates very easily, even though I don't believe I'm all that attractive, mostly because I listen to people when they talk. People find me fairly easy to talk to, mostly because I focus on them when they talk, ask leading questions and practice certain non-verbal behaviors I've learned, like leaning in slightly, occasional eye contact, and small smiles. I'm sh** at flirting (if I am attracted to them in the slightest, I'm awkward as hell until it makes it into the bedroom), but because I listen to people when they talk, they find themselves talking more. They feel like I care or I believe they're important. After awhile, they realize they feel comfortable, and believe it or not, finding someone comfortable for them to talk to makes a huge difference--yes, even for men. I've also spent years honing my ability to make witty remarks and be funny. Those don't hurt.

I don't date what people persist in thinking of as "alphas". I like nerds, geeks, weirdos and people who are otherwise not what the larger society would think of as being socially adept. Since my interests are kinky, as well as my autism and the residuals of a really sh***y childhood, I have a MUCH smaller dating pool than most women. I date physicists, mathematicians, theorists of all stripes and computer scientists, fer christ's sake--wanna talk about an awkward population?

I also date people without jobs. I'm looking for someone I'm compatible with, not someone with the largest cock, the best social skills, or the best job.

While I may get asked out often, it does not follow that the relationships would be good or, for that matter, that the sex would be good--I turn people down if I feel from the way they behave (inconsiderate, whiny, and sh***y) that the sex would be awful. Plus, as Eureka pointed out, then I feel like sh** about myself for awhile, even though I know it's not my fault that my date behaved like crap.

What I do know is that men who persist in treating me like I owe them sex at some point, like they're settling for sex with me, like they're desperate to get some, and/or like they resent me for 'having it easier' because I get asked out make me want to run screaming. I don't want to be on a date with someone who resents me, is preemptively angry at me, believes the world is "out to get them" or otherwise displays evidence of poor emotional and self awareness.

Why? Because there is NO chance they will ever have a good relationship or good communication with me. They're too busy ignoring me for what they think the world (and women) are like. :evil:


I can identify with soooooo much of this. One of my problems is that since I *am* much more comfortable with men I'm not attracted to, they tend to "bond" to me - and I don't want them to! The ones I have a difficult time establishing a relationship with are the ones I *am* attracted to.....talk about a Catch 22!

This is why "meeting" someone first via the internet has both its good and bad sides. I can "weed out" 9/10 that I am certain I have no interest in (intelligence level, attitude, whiny, demanding, etc.), but then if I actually meet them in person, one of two things happens: 1) I feel zero attraction for them, but they fall hard for me (I also consider myself average-looking), or 2) I feel amazing attraction for them, but can do nothing but sit like a lump and/or say inappropriate things. :roll:



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03 Jan 2014, 6:31 pm

mouthyb wrote:

I am an Aspie woman. I get dates very easily, even though I don't believe I'm all that attractive, mostly because I listen to people when they talk. People find me fairly easy to talk to, mostly because I focus on them when they talk, ask leading questions and practice certain non-verbal behaviors I've learned, like leaning in slightly, occasional eye contact, and small smiles. I'm sh** at flirting (if I am attracted to them in the slightest, I'm awkward as hell until it makes it into the bedroom), but because I listen to people when they talk, they find themselves talking more. They feel like I care or I believe they're important. After awhile, they realize they feel comfortable, and believe it or not, finding someone comfortable for them to talk to makes a huge difference--yes, even for men. I've also spent years honing my ability to make witty remarks and be funny. Those don't hurt.

I don't date what people persist in thinking of as "alphas". I like nerds, geeks, weirdos and people who are otherwise not what the larger society would think of as being socially adept. Since my interests are kinky, as well as my autism and the residuals of a really sh***y childhood, I have a MUCH smaller dating pool than most women. I date physicists, mathematicians, theorists of all stripes and computer scientists, fer christ's sake--wanna talk about an awkward population?

again,a person who can get dates,sex,have a fwb is not equal to a person who can't
attract anyone at all.