Page 2 of 3 [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

SteveK
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: Chicago, IL

03 Feb 2007, 11:32 pm

Interesting, and sad! Actually, though, I read a book on NORMAL brain development earlier, and it spoke of a similar thing, that adolescent brains grow really big, and go through a catabolic phase. Doesn't it figure that the mechanism must be the SAME?

BTW They ORIGINALLY thought glial cells were associated with SENILITY because they were far more prominent in senile people. Of course, there IS one guy that was famous for having *******LOTS******* of glial cells! His name? Want to guess? Albert EINSTEIN! Guess THAT theory was all wet TOO! They now know that glial cells help rebuild the hippocampus, help support nuerons, map nuerons, and can even ACT like nuerons. FAR cry from senility, huh? They were found in senile people because it was a last ditch effort to recover from the progressive injury.

Steve



CelticGoddess
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2006
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,968

03 Feb 2007, 11:39 pm

SteveK wrote:
Interesting, and sad! Actually, though, I read a book on NORMAL brain development earlier, and it spoke of a similar thing, that adolescent brains grow really big, and go through a catabolic phase. Doesn't it figure that the mechanism must be the SAME?

BTW They ORIGINALLY thought glial cells were associated with SENILITY because they were far more prominent in senile people. Of course, there IS one guy that was famous for having *******LOTS******* of glial cells! His name? Want to guess? Albert EINSTEIN! Guess THAT theory was all wet TOO! They now know that glial cells help rebuild the hippocampus, help support nuerons, map nuerons, and can even ACT like nuerons. FAR cry from senility, huh? They were found in senile people because it was a last ditch effort to recover from the progressive injury.

Steve


Regarding your first thought...autistic brains between ages 4-18 mos can cause the head circumference of the child to jump from 50% to as large as 120% so I'm guess that THAT type of growth would far surpass the NT growth spurt in brain size. The doctor said that one of the children he studied was 3 years old and his brain was 3 times as large as an adults. So I guess this would be one of those cases where bigger isn't better. ;) You have a large brain and add to the fact that the connectors from the amygdala to other parts of the brain are fewer, process information slower AND sometimes not connected to the right spot...it would definitely explain why Aspies sometimes have inappropriate responses to situations. If the brain is taking in stimuli and it's not being received in the right section of the brain, then the reaction to the situation will be inaccurate.

On your second thought about Einstein...that is fascinating! I hadn't heard that one before. I'll have to copy it down so I remember. Ha!



amerikasend
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jan 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 404
Location: South Africa

03 Feb 2007, 11:47 pm

Do a lot of you obsess over having aspergers? I have it and it's not on my mind 24/7. I have noticed a lot seem to obsess over it. I have Noticed more b***h and complain about NT's. Is the bitching and complaining about NT's mainly amongst the teenagers with aspergers?

Well I would describe my diagnosis, but there is no point.

EDIT: I will, but don't feel comfortable within this group to do so. Seems to be some hateful members



ZanneMarie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,324

03 Feb 2007, 11:49 pm

"I have become a lonely old chap who is mainly known because he doesn't wear socks and who is exhibited as a curiosity on special occasions." (Einstein to a friend in a letter he wrote in the 1940’s)


If you ever think he didn't feel like us, you would be wrong. As to the brain, I believe it is simply lacking or broken wiring for social subtleties. However, having said that, I think it all depends on the degree of that, whether you are willing to intellectually learn your way around it (as long as your impulses let you) and whether you want to be around NTs. There are plenty of geek jobs that don't require it. Personally, I would rather pull out my toenails with pliers than become normal. I enjoy my own brain and my life. I don't need to be cured of something that doesn't bother me. If it bothers them, it's probably time for them to go back to their own cubes and leave me alone anyway.



RTSgamerFTW
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,410

03 Feb 2007, 11:59 pm

Anubis wrote:
LOL

You can't rewire the brain using surgery.


THEN THERE IS NO CURE!! !! ! HAHA!! !! ! NT'S CAN'T CURE US!! !! !


_________________
My sig pwns.


SteveK
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: Chicago, IL

04 Feb 2007, 12:49 am

CelticGoddess,

You're right. You lose the chance of a really big growth spurt in the brain somewhere around ten or so. The cartilage finishes turning to bone, and fuses. Still, it DOES grow a lot, and is pruned back. Why should the large difference require a change in method? Also, yeah, there IS a limit. Heck, the brain uses a LOT of resources. I guess the average size brain is probably fine. There are all sorts of theories as to how much is used. I bet those estimates don't take into account the fact that Autistics probably use more.

As for MY having a bigger brain? I guess I am REALLY going to have to get a cat scan. 8-( Whether it is bigger, denser(Autistics have more nuerons in minicolumns, and Einsteins brain is said to have been like 70% more dense than normal!), or just reallocated(Think of all that brain capacity that AS people can use that may STILL be going to waste! WOW), I guess that revelation is what encouraged me to try to get better at certain things, etc... Heck, I keep hearing about people that probably know a LOT more than I do, and are still going strong! I am trying to remember more things. HECK, some things just STICK now because I am getting better again.

amerikasend,

NTs have always mistreated AS people. I am certainly not obsessing over aspergers, etc... I AM trying to learn about it. If there was some way of relating the DSM to me 1:1, or near that close, I would try to memorize EVERYTHING, and probably seem to obsess. Alas, it IS a syndrome, and the permutations of things due to its effects are VAST! Because of that, I only learned what applied to me, and general things relating to everyone, and come to places like here to see how it affected others, and to talk.

Steve



amerikasend
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jan 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 404
Location: South Africa

04 Feb 2007, 1:03 am

SteveK wrote:
amerikasend,

NTs have always mistreated AS people. I am certainly not obsessing over aspergers, etc... I AM trying to learn about it. If there was some way of relating the DSM to me 1:1, or near that close, I would try to memorize EVERYTHING, and probably seem to obsess. Alas, it IS a syndrome, and the permutations of things due to its effects are VAST! Because of that, I only learned what applied to me, and general things relating to everyone, and come to places like here to see how it affected others, and to talk.

Steve
NT's have always mistreated people with aspergers? I'm not sure who I should call ignorant. I'm going to go for you Mr. Steve K. I'm not exactly sure where you get any of your facts from. NT's mistreat people with asperger's and what is your point? You may want to sit down on your complaining about NT's. I have Aspergers and I don't b***h and whine about NT's. s**t, you want to make it out as if having aspergers is the worst s**t.

I love your ignorance. :D

EDIT: Since Steve K. has posted more than me(higher up in rank), the matter of the fact that (HFA does not matter here)



SteveK
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: Chicago, IL

04 Feb 2007, 8:53 am

amerikasend wrote:
SteveK wrote:
amerikasend,

NTs have always mistreated AS people. I am certainly not obsessing over aspergers, etc... I AM trying to learn about it. If there was some way of relating the DSM to me 1:1, or near that close, I would try to memorize EVERYTHING, and probably seem to obsess. Alas, it IS a syndrome, and the permutations of things due to its effects are VAST! Because of that, I only learned what applied to me, and general things relating to everyone, and come to places like here to see how it affected others, and to talk.

Steve
NT's have always mistreated people with aspergers? I'm not sure who I should call ignorant. I'm going to go for you Mr. Steve K. I'm not exactly sure where you get any of your facts from. NT's mistreat people with asperger's and what is your point? You may want to sit down on your complaining about NT's. I have Aspergers and I don't b***h and whine about NT's. s**t, you want to make it out as if having aspergers is the worst s**t.

I love your ignorance. :D

EDIT: Since Steve K. has posted more than me(higher up in rank), the matter of the fact that (HFA does not matter here)


Amerikasend,

First of all, I NEVER said anything against AS, and have spoken up AGAINST such ideas!
But HEY, it seems NOTHING and NOBODY is perfect. Unfortunately, AS isn't either.

OK, maybe I was overgeneralizing, and I didn't mean to make it sound like ALL NTs are. The problems will probably affect males more than females, and some cultures may see it less.

In the US, there are certain types of jokes, double entendres, actions, sports, etc... that can single you out. If they don't know about the AS, or even that it exists, they certainly can't use THAT against you, but they CAN use your failure to meet their expectations of a certain event as a way to do so.

So, I am not interested in sports. I am also not good with sports. That is unusual in the US for a male, but probably somewhat understandable for one with AS, and a deficit in some interaction. HEY, I recently lost a couple opportunities because of this one.

So, I can't understand some body language as well. Frankly, polls I have done have shown a lot is garbage, STILL, it is a mark against me. I almost got fired because of something I didn't do.

Because of SOMETHING here, with no real time to show anything, someone determined I couldn't fill their bill as a manager. It wasn't because of any questions(there was only one that even bordered on it). It must have been because of other things.

BTW Don't think I even think about this all day. I don't. Half the time I don't care. There have been gatherings I haven't gone to because I knew they would be sports oriented, etc... I have NEVER gone to such an event. I already mentioned about what I think about body language. I HAVE read a number of books on the subject and HAVE run pools of over 100 people from all walks of life. STILL, some jerk FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY no less, calls me racist because I wanted to relax(the international intercultural REAL sign for "I am resting my arms" means, according the the books, "You are garbage, your ideas are garbage, and I don't like you!")! I knew what it was supposed to mean, but was he BRAIN DAMAGED? What am I supposed to do with my arms? The 5 common, and only comfortable, ways ALL mean something, and I think the 3 best ways can all mean the same thing. CRAZY!

Quote:
EDIT: Since Steve K. has posted more than me(higher up in rank), the matter of the fact that (HFA does not matter here)


OK, that last part makes no sense, but I will try to understand it. HEY, I have said a number of encouraging things, and few were complaints about NTs, etc.... OK, I am on this board TOO much. I admit that. I tend to get over involved. Still, that doesn't make my ideas carry any less weight than yours. And I certainly don't get any more weight, etc...

Steve



Last edited by SteveK on 04 Feb 2007, 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

KenM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,491
Location: Mass. USA

04 Feb 2007, 9:04 am

acceptence = cure. The NT's don't like us the way we are, so they try and change us instead of letting us be who we really are.
NT's are screwed up.



CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 103,478
Location: Canada in person, Germany in spirit

04 Feb 2007, 9:30 am

KenM wrote:
acceptence = cure. The NT's don't like us the way we are, so they try and change us instead of letting us be who we really are.
NT's are screwed up.


I agree with you, there. NTs feel that they have to be in control of everything, and if they can't control us, they shun us.



ZanneMarie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,324

04 Feb 2007, 10:05 am

SteveK wrote:
The problems will probably affect males more than females, and some cultures may see it less.


Actually, the problems for females are just as bad, but they can be different. It's pretty easy for a female with AS to end up raped because guys can lie to you and you won't be aware. You won't get the 'signals' other women might. Which is not to say rapists don't rape NT women, just that AS women have an additional challenge to understand there might be a problem. They are also more easily taken advantage of by a guy who just wants sex to fill in the gap because they won't get that either (my experience is that NT women aren't too good at this themselves.)

But, in addition, we suffer from the swift judgement that we are cold and unfeeling and that does not go over well in an NT world where the stereotype of women as nurturers and naturally loving is firmly in place (whether that is because they are NTs, I don't know, but at this point it's firmly in place, so that's irrelevant). Although I have managed to have a good career without having people understand why I am like I am, the truth is that is has caused me problems and prejudicial treatment in EVERY job and social situation I have ever been in. Every single one without one exception.

I am repeatedly told I am harsh, abrasive, rude and unfeeling. I am not like most AS people I think. I don't perceive this as I have a problem because frankly touchy, feely crap has no place at work anyway. I am there to do a job. Period. I'm not there to swap spit and make friends. So, I confront the people who tell me this and it all comes down to this. I don't use platitudes, adjectives or adverbs. I speak like Mr. Spock and my face is impassive. It is always a "feeler" (I'm talking Meyers Briggs) here who complains about this. So, I break it down into the rational and point all of this out and the fact that all of the geeky males I work with (they are all techno geeks) are the same way. I present mountains of evidence to prove that and tell them that what they are practicing is sex descrimination and I will report it. They back off, but of course, that has its own problems over time. Usually we all get along in the sandbox for quite awhile because they feel they cannot do without my brain, however, I feel for the women like me who won't stand up to these idiots because they think it is "their" problem.

The problem for a woman gets worse at work. If you're a woman and you aren't married, there's the whole drama of why aren't you dating? Ummm, because I don't like most men? That isn't going to get it. NT women (and this is prejudice, but based on my own experience which is all I know) do not see interesting or compatible as necessary commodities for dating. They see <insert name here> and that is good enough. AS women are once again thought callous and unfeeling and there is backlash to that as they set out to undermine you (I've seen it over and over and over for the 22 years I've been working so don't bother to say it doesn't exist because you'd only be fooling yourself.).

If you are married and don't want children, it's a million times worse. They perceive that as a threat on many levels. First, that there is such thing as a choice. You might put it off, but actually thinking you don't have to have any? Nah. It feeds the whole you are cold, selfish, self-absorbed, callous, heartless, etc. craziness. The biggest threat to them though is that you might show up to work more than they do just because they have kids with illness and appts. etc. Or, they want to use you because you don't have them. I actually was laid off over a woman with a child because my boss was the same age as both of us and she had a child the same age as this other woman. Believe it or not, she told me this. (Sorry, verbal things are just a he said, she said and a company can legally ask if you have sued a company before.) I had another job quickly that paid more and I ended up better off than either of them, but the fact of the matter is that it was the only reason it happened (I only reported to this woman for two months, so as she told me, it had nothing to do with my performance since she didn't know what that was.)


Even the social expectations for women are out of control. We're asked to do administrative stuff no man would ever be and frowned at if we won't do it and call them on it. We're expected to join such things as "The Women's Network." (My boss is pressuring me on this right now.) WTF is a woman's network and what would it have to do with me? A bunch of women sitting around whining about how to juggle kids and work and why they get stuck with all the housework? Upon further investigation, that is what they talk about. So, this would benefit me how? We're expected to work on these charity functions and socialize (even organize social things). It gets to the point where work doesn't matter as much as all of this other crap.

The upshot is that I know all of this goes on, but frankly, as long as I get what I want out of them (which is enough money to live how I want), I don't waste my energy with the rest of it. I live by the adage, never try to teach a pig to sing. They aren't going to change and neither am I because neither one of us WANTS to change. That's the bottom line.


Socially, you can take everything above and magnify it. For women, the problems with AS are just different, but probably overall no less or more. It's just a strange world for all of us.



9CatMom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jan 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,403

04 Feb 2007, 10:11 am

I'm scared of surgery. Unless it's a matter of life and death, I would not want brain surgery.



SteveK
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: Chicago, IL

04 Feb 2007, 10:51 am

ZanneMarie wrote:
SteveK wrote:
The problems will probably affect males more than females, and some cultures may see it less.


Quote:
Actually, the problems for females are just as bad, but they can be different. It's pretty easy for a female with AS to end up raped because guys can lie to you and you won't be aware. You won't get the 'signals' other women might. Which is not to say rapists don't rape NT women, just that AS women have an additional challenge to understand there might be a problem. They are also more easily taken advantage of by a guy who just wants sex to fill in the gap because they won't get that either (my experience is that NT women aren't too good at this themselves.)


As for the raping part, I am sure that NT women have the same problem. It might be peer pressure and/or the new feelings some have, and/or the testosterone rush, etc... Jealousy, or a power trip. Who knows, but some males DO seem to only think about sex, etc... And American/West European society almost DEMANDS that females flash all the signs. I say American/west european, because some such as indian and arab demand that they DON'T!

Ironically, that makes it hard for people like me(I have to ignore certain signals, because they no longer mean anything), and is conducive to the problems you mentioned about women.

BTW I have never really succumbed to peer pressure on the average vices, the feelings weren't new for me, I rode the rush out, etc.... So I understand where they are coming from, but don't condone it or act that way.

I guess in light of what you said, I can understand the relationship problem. That ALSO makes it hard for people like me! I already spoke elsewhere about how I saw someone that might have understood me, but actually changed direction to never meet her because it would have seemed to odd to HER! 8(

I just thought of the easy part. MY GOD! I saw a little girl(Probably 11-13) move her hands in a certain way. I don't know WHAT it was! NO self respecting male would have moved his hands that way, it would be considered effeminate. Yet my attention was drawn, etc... It is FUNNY how the human males mind works, and human females always seem to know how to press the right buttons. BTW I don't think she was doing that on purpose.

Quote:
But, in addition, we suffer from the swift judgement that we are cold and unfeeling and that does not go over well in an NT world where the stereotype of women as nurturers and naturally loving is firmly in place (whether that is because they are NTs, I don't know, but at this point it's firmly in place, so that's irrelevant). Although I have managed to have a good career without having people understand why I am like I am, the truth is that is has caused me problems and prejudicial treatment in EVERY job and social situation I have ever been in. Every single one without one exception.

I am repeatedly told I am harsh, abrasive, rude and unfeeling. I am not like most AS people I think. I don't perceive this as I have a problem because frankly touchy, feely crap has no place at work anyway. I am there to do a job. Period. I'm not there to swap spit and make friends. So, I confront the people who tell me this and it all comes down to this. I don't use platitudes, adjectives or adverbs. I speak like Mr. Spock and my face is impassive. It is always a "feeler" (I'm talking Meyers Briggs) here who complains about this. So, I break it down into the rational and point all of this out and the fact that all of the geeky males I work with (they are all techno geeks) are the same way. I present mountains of evidence to prove that and tell them that what they are practicing is sex descrimination and I will report it. They back off, but of course, that has its own problems over time. Usually we all get along in the sandbox for quite awhile because they feel they cannot do without my brain, however, I feel for the women like me who won't stand up to these idiots because they think it is "their" problem.

The problem for a woman gets worse at work. If you're a woman and you aren't married, there's the whole drama of why aren't you dating? Ummm, because I don't like most men? That isn't going to get it. NT women (and this is prejudice, but based on my own experience which is all I know) do not see interesting or compatible as necessary commodities for dating. They see <insert name here> and that is good enough. AS women are once again thought callous and unfeeling and there is backlash to that as they set out to undermine you (I've seen it over and over and over for the 22 years I've been working so don't bother to say it doesn't exist because you'd only be fooling yourself.).


Well, People have thought I was homosexual simply because I don't date! One jerk wrote that in dust on my car. I told his mother, and she started to say like "It's ok if you are...". Frankly, I want people to know I am STRAIGHT! One VERY good reason is some woman MIGHT be interested. Who knows? If she thinks I'm homosexual, my luck goes down the tubes.

Quote:
If you are married and don't want children, it's a million times worse. They perceive that as a threat on many levels. First, that there is such thing as a choice. You might put it off, but actually thinking you don't have to have any? Nah. It feeds the whole you are cold, selfish, self-absorbed, callous, heartless, etc. craziness. The biggest threat to them though is that you might show up to work more than they do just because they have kids with illness and appts. etc. Or, they want to use you because you don't have them. I actually was laid off over a woman with a child because my boss was the same age as both of us and she had a child the same age as this other woman. Believe it or not, she told me this. (Sorry, verbal things are just a he said, she said and a company can legally ask if you have sued a company before.) I had another job quickly that paid more and I ended up better off than either of them, but the fact of the matter is that it was the only reason it happened (I only reported to this woman for two months, so as she told me, it had nothing to do with my performance since she didn't know what that was.)


Yeah, I know those laws. They are basically enforced by the EMPLOYER!! !! BTW I had the SAME thing happen! I did the work, and someone ELSE got paid more(for MY work!! !!) because he was older and married!

Quote:
Even the social expectations for women are out of control. We're asked to do administrative stuff no man would ever be and frowned at if we won't do it and call them on it. We're expected to join such things as "The Women's Network." (My boss is pressuring me on this right now.) WTF is a woman's network and what would it have to do with me? A bunch of women sitting around whining about how to juggle kids and work and why they get stuck with all the housework? Upon further investigation, that is what they talk about. So, this would benefit me how? We're expected to work on these charity functions and socialize (even organize social things). It gets to the point where work doesn't matter as much as all of this other crap.


HEY, I was once pointed to a room, and asked to go there and print envelopes! Maybe it was a test! There was a dismantled computer, broken printer, etc... I had to put the computer together, fix the printer, and get the envelopes printed. And I was thinking WHAT A WASTE of my time!

I have been asked to do worse. SOMETIMES I only LUCKED OUT being given weeks worth of boring work, and finding out how to do it in minutes on the computer.

Quote:
The upshot is that I know all of this goes on, but frankly, as long as I get what I want out of them (which is enough money to live how I want), I don't waste my energy with the rest of it. I live by the adage, never try to teach a pig to sing. They aren't going to change and neither am I because neither one of us WANTS to change. That's the bottom line.


Socially, you can take everything above and magnify it. For women, the problems with AS are just different, but probably overall no less or more. It's just a strange world for all of us.


Yeah, I guess you are right. I never thought about that. Thanks for the VERY detailed response.

Steve



TigerFire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,904
Location: Cave Spring GA USA

04 Feb 2007, 2:36 pm

Oh I think this topic is a little sad. I mean why is everyone trying to change who they are. I believe if I was cured I would go nuts and probably kill my self because I wouldn't know what to do.


_________________
Beauty is in the eye of beholder but to a theif beauty is money.


Ticker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Age: 51
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,955

04 Feb 2007, 10:38 pm

ahayes wrote:
The brain can re-wire itself in case of damage, but I don't think you could do it manually. There have been cat scans of people who were hit on the head showing how some of the neural circutry had been completely rerouted when they finally came out of their coma. If you could somehow re-wire a brain, it would probably involve damaging certain parts to stimulate the creation of alternate circutry.


Good point. I think we've discussed on here before how so many of us were injured at birth from crazy doctors with forceps. Or how prolonged deliverys thus possibly deprived of oxygen. I think that points to some sort of brain damage and body rewiring itself.



celtic1985
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 191
Location: Glasgow / Cardiff

04 Feb 2007, 10:41 pm

Ticker wrote:
Good point. I think we've discussed on here before how so many of us were injured at birth from crazy doctors with forceps. Or how prolonged deliverys thus possibly deprived of oxygen. I think that points to some sort of brain damage and body rewiring itself.


Well thats certainly true for me, interesting theory.