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White Widow, Samantha Lewthwaite

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Ann2011
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02 Oct 2013, 4:55 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:
When a neighborhood watchman, who is trying to keep your neighborhood safe, tries simply to ascertain what you are doing, you don't bash his head in for it.

Again, you don't know what happened. Not having enough evidence to prove something in court doesn't mean that it didn't happen. No one knows what happened. And I don't understand your defense of Zimmerman as he doesn't prove to be particularly reputable.



Tequila
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02 Oct 2013, 4:57 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
Again, you don't know what happened. Not having enough evidence to prove something in court doesn't mean that it didn't happen. No one knows what happened.


If no-one knows what's happened it follows that it's wrong to impute guilt on the man.



Thelibrarian
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02 Oct 2013, 4:59 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
When a neighborhood watchman, who is trying to keep your neighborhood safe, tries simply to ascertain what you are doing, you don't bash his head in for it.

Again, you don't know what happened. Not having enough evidence to prove something in court doesn't mean that it didn't happen. No one knows what happened. And I don't understand your defense of Zimmerman as he doesn't prove to be particularly reputable.[/quote

Ann, of course you are right that we don't know absolutely what happened. But I will believe the facts as we understand them unless and until I have good reason not to. Do you have good reason to dispute the facts as they are widely known?



Ann2011
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02 Oct 2013, 5:01 pm

Tequila wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Again, you don't know what happened. Not having enough evidence to prove something in court doesn't mean that it didn't happen. No one knows what happened.


If no-one knows what's happened it follows that it's wrong to impute guilt on the man.

Like I've said in other threads, it's up to him whether he draws attention to himself or not.

And how did I get sucked into the Zimmerman vortex again!! ! :evil:



Thelibrarian
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02 Oct 2013, 5:04 pm

Tequila wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Again, you don't know what happened. Not having enough evidence to prove something in court doesn't mean that it didn't happen. No one knows what happened.


If no-one knows what's happened it follows that it's wrong to impute guilt on the man.


I will agree. Both American and Canadian law are based upon English common law, which presumes us innocent unless there is good reason to believe otherwise. Since most parts of the world presume us guilty unless we can prove otherwise, I say hats off to the English. It is a tradition worth protecting and respecting, even when it comes to George Zimmerman.



Ann2011
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02 Oct 2013, 5:57 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
When a neighborhood watchman, who is trying to keep your neighborhood safe, tries simply to ascertain what you are doing, you don't bash his head in for it.

Again, you don't know what happened. Not having enough evidence to prove something in court doesn't mean that it didn't happen. No one knows what happened. And I don't understand your defense of Zimmerman as he doesn't prove to be particularly reputable.


Ann, of course you are right that we don't know absolutely what happened. But I will believe the facts as we understand them unless and until I have good reason not to. Do you have good reason to dispute the facts as they are widely known?

No, I think the facts speak for themselves.

And, of course, you're innocent until proven guilty. I'm not saying he should be in jail; again, I don't know what happened, but Librarian, you seem to think you do.



Thelibrarian
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02 Oct 2013, 6:04 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
When a neighborhood watchman, who is trying to keep your neighborhood safe, tries simply to ascertain what you are doing, you don't bash his head in for it.

Again, you don't know what happened. Not having enough evidence to prove something in court doesn't mean that it didn't happen. No one knows what happened. And I don't understand your defense of Zimmerman as he doesn't prove to be particularly reputable.


Ann, of course you are right that we don't know absolutely what happened. But I will believe the facts as we understand them unless and until I have good reason not to. Do you have good reason to dispute the facts as they are widely known?

No, I think the facts speak for themselves.

And, of course, you're innocent until proven guilty. I'm not saying he should be in jail; again, I don't know what happened, but Librarian, you seem to think you do.


I don't have any special knowledge, nor am I disposed to make rash presumptions in this case. All I have to go by is the facts as they have been widely reported.

BTW, this is not the first time this kind of thing happened. Are you aware of the alleged Duke rape case or the Jena 6 case? The victims didn't receive the presumption of innocence either, and it ruined a lot of innocent lives. This is why the presumption of innocence is so important.



Ann2011
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02 Oct 2013, 7:46 pm

Anneli Botha, a terrorism expert at the Institute for Security Studies in Pretoria, said she believed there was a “tremendous threat brewing” in South Africa, with the country not so much a direct target of Islamist terror groups but a “very active role player.”

The country has become a convenient hiding place and base for operations, in part due to the availability of passports obtained through corruption or with fraudulent documents, she said. Ms. Botha said she believed Al-Shabab, the group that claimed responsibility for the Nairobi attack, would have no compunction about attacking a target in South Africa such as an embassy.



Thelibrarian
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02 Oct 2013, 7:54 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
Anneli Botha, a terrorism expert at the Institute for Security Studies in Pretoria, said she believed there was a “tremendous threat brewing” in South Africa, with the country not so much a direct target of Islamist terror groups but a “very active role player.”

The country has become a convenient hiding place and base for operations, in part due to the availability of passports obtained through corruption or with fraudulent documents, she said. Ms. Botha said she believed Al-Shabab, the group that claimed responsibility for the Nairobi attack, would have no compunction about attacking a target in South Africa such as an embassy.


I would suspect Botha is right. South Africa's immigration policy is even more insane than that of the US, and it is costing a country that can't afford it anymore plenty.



Ann2011
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02 Oct 2013, 8:28 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:
I would suspect Botha is right. South Africa's immigration policy is even more insane than that of the US, and it is costing a country that can't afford it anymore plenty.


Lewthwaite, a mother of three, is believed to have escaped into Tanzania with British terror suspect Habib Saleh Ghani, according to authorities. Kenyan police said last year that they believed she was in Somalia. They described Ghani as highly dangerous...Lewthwaite was active in South Africa as recently as May 2012, the report said, citing consumer records. The records imply she entered South Africa after fleeing Kenya into Tanzania, an embarrassment for South African authorities.

Image



Thelibrarian
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02 Oct 2013, 8:35 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
I would suspect Botha is right. South Africa's immigration policy is even more insane than that of the US, and it is costing a country that can't afford it anymore plenty.


Lewthwaite, a mother of three, is believed to have escaped into Tanzania with British terror suspect Habib Saleh Ghani, according to authorities. Kenyan police said last year that they believed she was in Somalia. They described Ghani as highly dangerous...Lewthwaite was active in South Africa as recently as May 2012, the report said, citing consumer records. The records imply she entered South Africa after fleeing Kenya into Tanzania, an embarrassment for South African authorities.

Image


Ann, exactly. If South Africa had a rational immigration policy, Lewthwaite would never have tried entering, as there would be a good chance should would be caught. Income taxes, not to mention other taxes, now run as high as seventy percent in SA, and it's not enough to keep up with the care of the natives, much less a burgeoning immigrant population.



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02 Oct 2013, 11:48 pm

Where are Lewthwaite's children?

She said she was "raising them to be martyrs'.....

Are they with her?

Is she dragging them from country to country, living in a violent, cult-like militaristic underground?

Sylkat



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02 Oct 2013, 11:53 pm

Sylkat wrote:
Where are Lewthwaite's children?

She said she was "raising them to be martyrs'.....

Are they with her?

Is she dragging them from country to country, living in a violent, cult-like militaristic underground?

Sylkat


That's something beyond my comprehension - putting a religion and ideology ahead of the lives of your children.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



cyberdad
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03 Oct 2013, 12:18 am

Leththwaite was already brainwashed by the time she decided to have kids. You have to remember she voluntarily allowed herself to be converted, although I imagine if the converse was to happen (i.e. a 15 yr old muslim decided to go against her parents wishes and convert to Christianity) then a fatwah would be placed on the child's head and the people who converted the child would be sued if they were in the UK or more likely executed if they were in a muslim country.



Sylkat
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04 Oct 2013, 7:59 am

So she can do as she pleases with her children, but she was able/allowed to make life-changing decisions for herself when she was still legally a child?


And she probably does not perceive this as wrong?


Sylkat



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04 Oct 2013, 8:11 pm

Sylkat wrote:
So she can do as she pleases with her children, but she was able/allowed to make life-changing decisions for herself when she was still legally a child?


And she probably does not perceive this as wrong?


Sylkat


This is why children exposed to cults at a young age are usually stuck in a mindset throughout their lives. it's much harder to re-wire a person's mind when they were exposed to cult like thinking at a vulnerable developmental stage in their lives.