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aspieMD
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30 Sep 2013, 10:23 am

This is one thing I never understood. It's like, people just love to find reasons to be offended by things you say, even if they seem innocuous. My theory for this is that they feel uncomfortable being around me, can't put their finger on why, so they're really eager and excited when they get even the smallest tangible evidence of their uncomfortable feelings being warranted and me being deserving of negative feelings / exclusion that they feel such a strong natural compulsion to do.

I'm probably the least easily offended person. Someone could tell me I'm fat and ugly and stupid and I wouldn't bat an eye. If it's someone I trust I would ask why I am that way and how I could fix it, and if it's someone whose opinion I don't value or if they have malicious intent then I will just shrug it off, take it from whom it comes, and ignore it.

And yet, the littlest things I say seem to drive everyone crazy. For example:

1) My friend (still finishing undergrad) posted a facebook status about not being able to handle this semester, and I commented something along the lines of "I feel your pain, I'm in med school." Of course, one of her overprotective friends got super pissed at me, practically cussing me out for being so insensitive and offensive. Umm.... I was just normalizing. Unbeknownst to me, the comment was taken as invalidating her own concerns by comparing them to mine, and making them seem trivial in comparison. I just don't get it why the first thing that pops into people's head is "THAT PERSON IS OUT TO GET YOU AND WANTS TO MAKE YOU FEEL BAD!" Anyone who knows me would know that I never want to do so. Seriously, what's the big deal? Why get so offended so easily!

2) My medical school is quite close to an Asian market that sells unusual food that typical Westerners don't eat. One morning in anatomy we dissected a pig's heart, and then I went for lunch with some of my asian homies at that market and they were selling chicken hearts. My friend had some (he happens to like chicken hearts, I'm not much of a fan myself, don't like the texture). Later that day I made a meme and posted it on my facebook wall. It had a picture of an asian in a labcoat and went something like this:
Anatomy Lab: Dissects pig heart
Lunch time: Dissects chicken heart

A couple of people, including my politically incorrect aunt and my aspie boyfriend found it funny. It offended a ton of people though. Like seriously, I WISH THE WORLD WOULD JUST TAKE THEIR COLLECTIVE STICK OUT OF THEIR BUTT NOW, kthx. Why do people get so easilly offended about stupid trivial things? Like, okay, I get it if you don't find it funny. But really, offensive? It's like people LIKE being offended!

Neurotypicals, can you please explain to me why and how on earth NTs can become so easily offended and riled up by things? It totally boggles my mind, and I don't want to make that mistake once I get on the wards and mess up big time.



Opi
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30 Sep 2013, 10:27 am

aspieMD wrote:
Like seriously, I WISH THE WORLD WOULD JUST TAKE THEIR COLLECTIVE STICK OUT OF THEIR BUTT NOW, kthx.


heehee... i'm sorry i have nothing constructive to offer... but you made my morning!


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jonny23
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30 Sep 2013, 10:53 am

Well I can't say why people are offended by everything these days but if you don't want to make people mad refrain from making any jokes about race or any other touchy subject. To me it seemed like your joke was about the hearts but it seems people took it as a racial slur.

As for the collective stick up the butt, it sounds unsanitary and best avoided especially at lunch time no matter what you're eating.



aspieMD
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30 Sep 2013, 11:06 am

jonny23 wrote:
Well I can't say why people are offended by everything these days but if you don't want to make people mad refrain from making any jokes about race or any other touchy subject. To me it seemed like your joke was about the hearts but it seems people took it as a racial slur.

As for the collective stick up the butt, it sounds unsanitary and best avoided especially at lunch time no matter what you're eating.


lol at the stick up your butt joke. I'm so proud of myself for not immediately taking that literally! aspieMD: 1, Asperger's: 0! :D



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30 Sep 2013, 11:19 am

Yeah, I've found that the real difference between between Aspies and NTs is that Aspies know they don't know what other people are thinking, but Nts think they know what you are thinking, but don't really. Consequently, the NTs who have the ugliest and most judgmental characters and thoughts (manipulative, scheming, backstabbing, vindictive, racist; etc.) project their own selves on to you and before you know it you've got the reputation of Hitler. When that person has authority over you, watch out. That's basically how my library director came to hate my guts. What she doesn't realize is that every horrible character trait she associates with me is actually her own.

I once made the typical Aspie mistake of asking a new employee if she was pregnant. I didn't mean anything by it -- I'd just noticed that she carried her weight disproportionately up front and was curious. By the way, she does have PCOs, which did make her look pregnant. My library director heard about it and remonstrated with me for having insulted her for being fat. I asked her why I would have negative thoughts about other people's weight when I was fat myself. She was aghast that I had now apparently insulted myself as well -- "Well, that's your opinion." It wasn't my opinion. I am just over 200 pounds at 5'4", which makes me obese in medical terms. It's not my fault, because I also have PCOS, had a gastric bypass in 2005, and my metabolism reset itself after the initial weight loss to maintain at around 203 pounds no matter how little I eat and how much I exercise. I'm not ashamed of my weight, since it's beyond my control, but I'm not in denial that I'm not fat. So I'm supposed to be out to offend myself -- NT mindsets are wierd.



CuriousMom123
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30 Sep 2013, 11:31 am

aspieMD wrote:
Unbeknownst to me, the comment was taken as invalidating her own concerns by comparing them to mine, and making them seem trivial in comparison. I just don't get it why the first thing that pops into people's head is "THAT PERSON IS OUT TO GET YOU AND WANTS TO MAKE YOU FEEL BAD!" Anyone who knows me would know that I never want to do so. Seriously, what's the big deal? Why get so offended so easily!


I thought the joke was funny, but I agree with jonny23 that jokes involving race are risky.

I think there's a key nuance that's important to note - a comment that is accidentally offensive isn't as hurtful as feeling that someone is out-of-touch. Did the protective friend cuss at you immediately? Or did you respond that it wasn't a big deal and that you didn't mean harm, and then the protective friend cussed at you?

If it's the latter, then what made them mad is that you insisted it was no big deal. If it was the former, then it's possible that you may have brushed things off in the past, so they were over-sensitive. Of course, it's also possible that the person is just a hyper-sensitive turd burger.

When my feelings are hurt, it isn't because I think someone is out to get me and wants to make me feel bad. In fact, if I know they are intentionally trying to hurt me, it's actually easier for me to deal with. What hurts me the most is when I think someone has been thoughtless and is thinking more about themselves than they are about me.

Comparing undergrad education to med school isn't comparing apples to apples. I'm betting that you got yelled at for trying to one-up her, am I right? If you're looking for advice, it might help in the future to ask yourself when you're comparing your experience to someone else's, if it's actually an equal comparison. If it's not the same, it helps to qualify it by saying, "I know it's not the same, but...." or it could help to make it an equal comparison by saying, "I remember being an undergrad - it really is tough."

Your friend wasn't hurt because she thought you were out to get her. It's not about you. Your friend was hoping for validation and support, but having it pointed out that her struggles could be worse, she might have felt stupid or weak for ever complaining in the first place. That adds insult to injury. Of course you didn't mean to do it, and of course you are NOT a bad person. We all make slip-ups. But just remember that it's not about you. She might be still feeling stupid or weak right now, on top of all the feelings of being overwhelmed. And even worse, the undergrad may be feeling alone. Or maybe not --- but the protective friend may have been anticipating that, and the protective friend wanted to make darn sure the undergrad knew she wasn't alone.

Facebook is drama town, and I avoid it specifically because of these kinds of misunderstandings. :(



Last edited by CuriousMom123 on 30 Sep 2013, 12:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.

jametto
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30 Sep 2013, 11:32 am

You're obviously posting this because the way they treat you pisses you off. That says it all, see if they feel bad about that and if they don't then make them experience the same quality of life they make you experience :)



Last edited by jametto on 30 Sep 2013, 11:39 am, edited 4 times in total.

CuriousMom123
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30 Sep 2013, 11:38 am

jametto wrote:
You're obviously posting this because the way they treat you pisses you off. That says it all, make them feel the same way.


I'm sorry... I've tried to be very respectful and polite and only say nice things on this board, but I have to say that this is absolutely terrible advice. If someone makes you feel bad, then make them feel bad back?? Um, no.

Also, when people get upset or treat someone poorly, it's not always because you have Aspergers and they're just being insensitive bigots. The situation that OP described is something that could happen between an AS person, or NT person, or anything in between.

To decide that everything bad that happens is because of AS, is to live your life with a victim-complex, and that's not helpful.



jonny23
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30 Sep 2013, 11:48 am

aspieMD wrote:
jonny23 wrote:
Well I can't say why people are offended by everything these days but if you don't want to make people mad refrain from making any jokes about race or any other touchy subject. To me it seemed like your joke was about the hearts but it seems people took it as a racial slur.

As for the collective stick up the butt, it sounds unsanitary and best avoided especially at lunch time no matter what you're eating.


lol at the stick up your butt joke. I'm so proud of myself for not immediately taking that literally! aspieMD: 1, Asperger's: 0! :D


Taking things literally is what led me to the joke. Picture the mental image I got when I read "collective stick up their butt" :lol:



CuriousMom123
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30 Sep 2013, 11:50 am

jametto wrote:
You're obviously posting this because the way they treat you pisses you off. That says it all, see if they feel bad about that and if they don't then make them experience the same quality of life they make you experience :)


I appreciate your edit, but that's still terrible advice. The hyper-protective friend should have handled themselves better, and it's fine to point out that it was hurtful, but unless OP validates the undergrad's feelings, she's still going to come off as hurtful. Posting about med school already gave the misunderstanding that she was only thinking about herself. If she were to make a big deal about her feelings (and still not apologize or validate the undergrad) then she's making the problem worse because it's now even more all-about OP.

You can't punish people for having hurt feelings. You can ask that you're spoken to with respect, but once you realize that someone's feelings are hurt and then you ignore those feelingson purpose, then people have every right to be genuinely angry.



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30 Sep 2013, 12:12 pm

Liblady wrote:
Yeah, I've found that the real difference between between Aspies and NTs is that Aspies know they don't know what other people are thinking, but Nts think they know what you are thinking, but don't really. Consequently, the NTs who have the ugliest and most judgmental characters and thoughts (manipulative, scheming, backstabbing, vindictive, racist; etc.) project their own selves on to you and before you know it you've got the reputation of Hitler.


I want to kindly suggest to you that you may be inadvertently helping contribute to the Hitler reputation. I don't say that to place blame, but rather to help (hopefully.) As an NT, I think your observation is a very good one, in general. Humans do so much projecting. I do wish that your statement didn't seem so incendiary toward NTs. It's not like Aspies are just inherently angels and are incapable of ever being manipulative, scheming, backstabbing, vindictive, racist, etc. Also, the NT, themselves, doesn't necessarily have to epitomize all of these things to be able to project it. In some cases, they may be a victim of these things (from someone else) and then project that perception on you.

That being said, I do believe you are a kind person with no ill-intent, and I believe that your director is generally impatient and unkind (as that seems to be what you imply, unless I've misread that.)

But I want to echo what I said to OP -- your intent isn't as important to people as what they are feeling. Once you get into an argument about how it shouldn't be a big issue because you had no ill-intent, that's what makes people really upset. When the original insult was made, you were unaware that it would hurt someone... but once it's pointed out, if you argue that it shouldn't have been a big deal, then you are aware someone was hurt and you're actively arguing that the hurt is invalid. That's intentional invalidation. That's the part that really makes people upset, and they are more likely to be judgmental of your future misunderstandings.

I think it's perfectly fine to defend oneself and point out that no harm was intended, so long as it's accompanied by remorse for the other person's hurt feelings.

PS - I am sorry to hear that you work in an environment that is hostile towards you. Aspergers is really hard for a NT person to grasp. The more I read about these stories, the more I wish I could do something to help society come to better understandings.



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30 Sep 2013, 1:01 pm

While not entirely related to what you are saying, I have had similar experience where people got REALLY offended when I offered constructive feedback. The first was for a hockey league. I sent a VERY long email to the team/league owners pointing out what they can improve upon the game day experience (like start the games on time and turn the damn temperature up like it normally is in that arena) and why nobody was attending their games (this league heavily promoted fighting over anything else which I saw as a mistake). Instead of thanking me for my honest, intelligent feedback, do you know what I got back?

"If you don't like fighting or how our league is run, don't bother showing up. We don't need negative people like you at our games!"

I was speechless when I got this reply. Sure I was a little blunt, but the league was FAILING miserably at the time and I tried to point out the obvious. I really enjoyed the hockey and didn't think advertising staged fighting and bringing in stars from a locally made foul mouthed adult TV show for (children's) autographs was a good idea. Surprise, surprise the entire league folded after only one season and it turned into a bigger joke than the XFL.

I also contacted my favorite chicken restaurant about a few concerns I had (decline in quality, ripoff pricing, bad service) and pointed out that having your front windows plastered with "WASHROOMS FOR COSTUMER(sic) USE ONLY" didn't exactly make it inviting.

A month later, I got a response saying that I was the only complaint they had ever received and everybody else loves them and he sidestepped every legitimate concern I had. Ironically enough though he DID fix every single thing I pointed out but never once thanked me for offering my opinion. You could literally hear the "how dare you!" attitude in his email and he pointed out to call him (long distance!) in the future instead of emailing! What a joke!

No wonder I rarely bother dealing with people anymore.



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30 Sep 2013, 1:14 pm

Liblady wrote:
the real difference between between Aspies and NTs is that Aspies know they don't know what other people are thinking, but Nts think they know what you are thinking, but don't really. Consequently, the NTs who have the ugliest and most judgmental characters and thoughts (manipulative, scheming, backstabbing, vindictive, racist; etc.) project their own selves on to you and before you know it you've got the reputation of Hitler. When that person has authority over you, watch out.



^^Hear! Hear!^^



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30 Sep 2013, 1:14 pm

I think a lot of people get easily offended because at the end of the day, they want things to be all about them, their feelings, etc..... Having something hurt your feelings, or getting offended is not the problem, I can have my feelings easily hurt, it's the reaction that's the problem, getting angry, upset, mean, and ultimately trying to control the other person by censoring them.... so it's kind of a control thing, which ultimately makes the situation about them. Narscisism...a word I cant spell.


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aspieMD
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30 Sep 2013, 1:17 pm

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
While not entirely related to what you are saying, I have had similar experience where people got REALLY offended when I offered constructive feedback. The first was for a hockey league. I sent a VERY long email to the team/league owners pointing out what they can improve upon the game day experience (like start the games on time and turn the damn temperature up like it normally is in that arena) and why nobody was attending their games (this league heavily promoted fighting over anything else which I saw as a mistake). Instead of thanking me for my honest, intelligent feedback, do you know what I got back?

"If you don't like fighting or how our league is run, don't bother showing up. We don't need negative people like you at our games!"

I was speechless when I got this reply. Sure I was a little blunt, but the league was FAILING miserably at the time and I tried to point out the obvious. I really enjoyed the hockey and didn't think advertising staged fighting and bringing in stars from a locally made foul mouthed adult TV show for (children's) autographs was a good idea. Surprise, surprise the entire league folded after only one season and it turned into a bigger joke than the XFL.

I also contacted my favorite chicken restaurant about a few concerns I had (decline in quality, ripoff pricing, bad service) and pointed out that having your front windows plastered with "WASHROOMS FOR COSTUMER(sic) USE ONLY" didn't exactly make it inviting.

A month later, I got a response saying that I was the only complaint they had ever received and everybody else loves them and he sidestepped every legitimate concern I had. Ironically enough though he DID fix every single thing I pointed out but never once thanked me for offering my opinion. You could literally hear the "how dare you!" attitude in his email and he pointed out to call him (long distance!) in the future instead of emailing! What a joke!

No wonder I rarely bother dealing with people anymore.


See!! ! This totally wxemplifies my experience. Honestly what pisses me off the most is when NTs have this idiot, skewed logic that somehow I would prefer it if they discussed my faults only behind my back, not in person! I swear, how else could I improve??? I told my anatomy group that I don't get offended and they couldn't believe or grasp it. They started being way more open with feedback and inclusive but remarked later that both things are really counterintuitive and make them feel very uncomfortable.

I wish people would just bite the bullet and just strive to be better people instead of continue living in ego-fantasy land. It boggles my mind how being direct could be such a crime. It is the only way any progress can happen in the world.



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30 Sep 2013, 1:24 pm

People are easily offended by me right here on WP. Many times I've had to retract my statements because the Aspie Police showed up and said it was inappropriate. Shoot. I never know when I've crossed the line.