low functioning vs. high functioning... difference?

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Prof_Pretorius
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01 Feb 2007, 3:40 pm

Ticker wrote:
Anyone else think some of the old definitions need to be thrown out and everything updated? I think a lot of what was written in past about autism and even some of the stuff about Aspergers is turning out not to hold true.



Hear, hear ! ! I second the motion to re-write the defs ! !


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Ticker
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01 Feb 2007, 4:07 pm

I think adult autistics should take part in the re-writing of those new definitions. I've always found it amusing how non-autistic "autism experts" try to tell me what it is like to be autistic. Some of the sh*t in books, particularly the older ones, is plain absurd.



Prof_Pretorius
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01 Feb 2007, 4:12 pm

Let us form an ASpie round-table, and set to the re-writing ! !!


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SteveK
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01 Feb 2007, 6:49 pm

Juliette wrote:
Briefly the percentages in terms of IQ ranges are approximately as follows(You can find articles on normal distribution on the internet):

IQ 100 down to 86 - 34.1% of population(normal range)
IQ 85 down to 71 - 13.6% of population(low normal)
IQ 70 down to 56 - 2.1% of population - mild intellectual impairment.
IQ 55 down to 40 - 0.1% of population - moderate intellectual impairment.
Under 40 severe intellectual impairment - Percentage? Very small.
Under 25 - profoundly intellectually impaired. Percentage? Even smaller.

Strictly speaking low functioning autistics comprise all those who have intellectual impairments. - about 2.3%+/- of the total population and about 80% of all autistics.


GEE, I have known a number of people that have intellectual impairments, like my stepbrother. MOST, like he, are NOT autistic! As for the being 80% of autistics? I doubt that. Of course, rules have changed to allow MORE people to be considered autistic.

Steve



Juliette
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01 Feb 2007, 7:51 pm

Steve, you have misinterpreted here. As we were talking about the high/low divide in the autistic population, the autistic man who shared this information with me had hoped it be understood that he meant "Strictly speaking low functioning autistics comprise all those autistics who have intellectual impairments." Sorry for any confusion.

In regard the 80% figure, as he's studied and worked in the field for over 30 years and is highly respected, I don't doubt the figure.



anbuend
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01 Feb 2007, 8:10 pm

I do doubt the figure, given that (among many other things) conventional IQ tests are being shown to be totally unreliable on autistic people. People can work in that field for their entire lives and be mostly clueless about these things, and simply working in the field for 30 years does not guarantee any understanding of this.


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OddDuckNash99
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01 Feb 2007, 8:47 pm

anbuend wrote:
Anyway, to reply to Oddducknash, that's not always how the term "Kanner" has been used. As you can see, most of his patients would now be considered "HFA" or "AS" or "PDD-NOS", so it doesn't make sense to use his name to differentiate between autism and those things.

I find that interesting. Probably the fact that Kanner was the first to professionally describe autism (of any severity) at all is the reason that his name is associated with the low-functioning end of the spectrum. I wonder how the stereotypical "autistic" became known as a "Kanner's autistic?"
-OddDuckNash99-


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anbuend
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01 Feb 2007, 8:54 pm

The stereotype originated -- as far as I can surmise anyway -- largely from institutionalized autistic people, similar to how stereotypes of Down's syndrome and intellect originated in institutions. But a lot of people were added to the autistic spectrum later on who became that stereotype -- that was not the initial people Kanner saw.


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Juliette
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01 Feb 2007, 9:14 pm

anbuend wrote:
People can work in that field for their entire lives and be mostly clueless about these things, and simply working in the field for 30 years does not guarantee any understanding of this.


I share your view on IQ tests and am generally wary of statistics. I also agree with the above statement. However, the autistic man who shared this information could never be said to have "simply worked in the field for over 30 years." With respect, he has a M.Sc. in adapted physical education, over 30 years experience in disability, primarily autism and the development of autism in the blind. He has been a classroom and specialist P.E. teacher in special shools. Has also worked in the early intervention, primary(N,K, 1-6) and high school streams in Australia and the USA and trained student teachers in teaching methods while employed at James Madison University in Virginia. He specialises in working with autistic people presenting with the most extreme and dangerous patterns of behaviour. He also worked full time in behaviour intervention in the Behaviour Intervention service of Disability Services in Victoria, Australia and more. Though we know how terribly unreliable IQ tests are, his score was in the top 1% of the population and autism is his main obsession.



anbuend
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01 Feb 2007, 9:22 pm

But all of that still doesn't mean he knows anything about whether IQ tests accurately measure the intellect of autistic people are not. It is currently -- in research -- being shown that they in fact don't, and that 80% is not even close to the right figure. And all of the things you just cited about the person you described still don't count a lot towards him being right in my book (especially since I count world-renowned autism "experts" who've devoted their entire lives to the study of autism in the category of people whose "authority" still doesn't mean they know anything about this), at least not when compared to recent evidence to the contrary. Facts trump credentials -- any credentials -- in my book.

And there is recent evidence to the contrary, so recent it's still in press:

Dawson, M., Soulières, I., Gernsbacher, M.A., & Mottron, L. (in press). The level and nature of autistic intelligence. Psychological Science.


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