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lotuspuppy
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06 Oct 2013, 11:39 am

So what do y'all think of John Boehner? It's interesting to me that Boehner gets so much heat for the government shutdown (I think deservedly so), and everyone pretends Boehner can end this thing if he wants to. The reality, I think, is much more complex. Boehner fascinates me because, unlike Obama, it's not clear what position Boehner should take. The House GOP is in the midst of a civil war between the Tea Party crowd and more mainline Republicans. The Tea Party is currently the more powerful faction, but Boehner has acted in the past as a more mainline Republican.

I personally feel sorry for Boehner. I think he would personally love to end the government shutdown, and indeed would have prevented the sequester if it were up to him. Nevertheless, I feel he realizes that doing anything against the Tea Party's wishes jeopardizes his political future. He may not have the courage to defy the Tea Party, but frankly, if he did, Boehner would probably be replaced by a Speaker who was even more extreme.



zacb
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06 Oct 2013, 12:48 pm

Mixed. I disagree with him agreeing to the firebombing of foreigners, and allowing the NSA debacle to go unchecked. I will give him kudos for the healthcare fight. Those are my thoughts.



Stargazer43
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06 Oct 2013, 3:19 pm

I think that he's in a tough position. I don't particularly like him or support him, but I think that in many ways his hands are tied. He has a significant portion of his party that have basically gone off the deep end and are unwilling to consider any viewpoint other than their own. I think that Boehner himself isn't quite so extreme, and I think that he is probably far more open to cooperation and compromise himself, but he is being driven towards more extreme measures by the far right elements of his party.



zacb
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06 Oct 2013, 3:30 pm

Stargazer43 wrote:
I think that he's in a tough position. I don't particularly like him or support him, but I think that in many ways his hands are tied. He has a significant portion of his party that have basically gone off the deep end and are unwilling to consider any viewpoint other than their own. I think that Boehner himself isn't quite so extreme, and I think that he is probably far more open to cooperation and compromise himself, but he is being driven towards more extreme measures by the far right elements of his party.


True. I think they should just go after the individual mandate, or maybe the device tax, and call it a day. They are not going to get rid of the rest of Obamacare, even if it will hurt the deficit.



simon_says
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06 Oct 2013, 3:35 pm

He was summed up best in an article that said he enjoys his job, realizes he's not in a great position, and just wants to enjoy it while it lasts. He can't keep his own party in line and so he'll inevitably be seen as a weak Speaker.



eric76
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06 Oct 2013, 5:50 pm

Many people are buying into the nonsense that it is the Republican who are the problem.

But if you look at the actions of the government under the direction of the executive branch, it is the President who is really playing dirty politics. He is trying to make it as painful as possible for everyone under the belief that they will think it is the Republicans who are responsible. But what they are doing is so absurd that it is hard to imagine that anyone can be gullible enough to believe him.

For example, there are reports of lakes where the boat rams have been shut down. A fairly large fishing area in Florida between Miami and the keys has reportedly been shut down. I was just reading something about them putting orange cones along the viewing points on the highway for Mount Rushmore to keep people from looking at Mount Rushmore from public highways. And everyone already knows about them closing off parks and monument areas in Washington DC that are normally monitored only a few hours a day but are normally available to the public 24 hours a day whether or not any park people are present. From what I understand, during all previous shutdowns none of these were made unavailable. The only possible view is that they are trying to make it painful far beyond what little may be necessary.

What's next? Closing down the interstate highways or shutting down all airspace? Closing all ports?

Obama is now engaged in some of the most despicable political shenanigans imagineable. Him and the other Democrats are making the Republicans look better every day.



eric76
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06 Oct 2013, 5:56 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=k7RCKKrRf24[/youtube]

Does anyone actually believe there is any other reason for closings like this other than to cause maximal pain?

Not sure why that doesn't want to work. Click on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=k7RCKKrRf24



simon_says
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06 Oct 2013, 6:03 pm

The official argument is that tens of thousands of park rangers are furloughed. There is no one to protect those sites. Who would prevent or repair any vandalism or theft?

Of course Obama could call them essential services and keep them running, but why would he? Let the GOP lie in it's own low rent diaper wetting mess.



appletheclown
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06 Oct 2013, 6:07 pm

Yah, and the 10 or so constitutional infringements the president has made are never worth discussing his impeachment over....(exective action abuse, obama care, anti militia/ second amendment, gm, never making a budget and blaming republicans thereby allowing himself to borrow more and more and more and more and more (cause of the national debt increase in his presidency), letting china get our drone (not really illegal, just a lot ****ing worse than even a drunk vagrant *blow it up, and gimmie more booze*), failed chance at killing Ahmadinejad (not illegal, just a lot worse than a drunk vagrant *blow em up, gimmie more booze*), Lybia, Egypt, Syria.)

Only success was finishing an almost complete operation started by bush to kill osama, and actually taking care of a pirate nation.


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eric76
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06 Oct 2013, 6:28 pm

simon_says wrote:
The official argument is that tens of thousands of park rangers are furloughed. There is no one to protect those sites. Who would prevent or repair any vandalism or theft?

Of course Obama could call them essential services and keep them running, but why would he? Let the GOP lie in it's own low rent diaper wetting mess.


Are you saying that they usually station park rangers on the highways where someone might see something scenic and stop to see it better?

I'm no Republican, but in this instance, the Republicans don't really look like the party at fault.



simon_says
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06 Oct 2013, 6:36 pm

appletheclown wrote:
Yah, and the 10 or so constitutional infringements the president has made are never worth discussing his impeachment over....(exective action abuse, obama care, anti militia/ second amendment, gm, never making a budget and blaming republicans thereby allowing himself to borrow more and more and more and more and more (cause of the national debt increase in his presidency), letting china get our drone (not really illegal, just a lot ****ing worse than even a drunk vagrant *blow it up, and gimmie more booze*), failed chance at killing Ahmadinejad (not illegal, just a lot worse than a drunk vagrant *blow em up, gimmie more booze*), Lybia, Egypt, Syria.)

Only success was finishing an almost complete operation started by bush to kill osama, and actually taking care of a pirate nation.


A) The SC is the arbiter of Constitutionality and they ok'd Obamacare even with a conservative majority. As did a majority of the lower courts who dealt with it.

B) Obama has submitted a budget every single year.

C) Bush took the budget from 1.8 trillion to 3.1 before including $700 billion from TARP. Obama's budgets have topped out at 3.8 for years and deficits are falling as revenue recovers from the collapse. His signature policy hasnt kicked in yet and Republicans have had the House since 2010. He didnt start the Iraq war, or it's costs, but he did wind it down. And Obama can't control the automatic spending from food stamps and other programs that kick in during a historic economic collapse.

D) GM is doing very well.

E) Why would he kill the President of Iran?

Quote:
Are you saying that they usually station park rangers on the highways where someone might see something scenic and stop to see it better?

I'm no Republican, but in this instance, the Republicans don't really look like the party at fault.


They blocked off some apparently federal viewing areas along the highway. The agency responded to the state and said they were only trying to block access inside and to direct people to viewing areas. They are down now due to weather and the state says they'll watch how they go back up. So....

The Republicans cannot deal emotionally with the fact that 11 months ago they lost the Presidency, 8 House seats and 2 Senate seats. They expected a big win. Now their Obamacare busting dreams have collapsed and they've decided to hold the government, and the US credit rating, hostage.



zacb
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06 Oct 2013, 7:00 pm

eric76 wrote:
simon_says wrote:
The official argument is that tens of thousands of park rangers are furloughed. There is no one to protect those sites. Who would prevent or repair any vandalism or theft?

Of course Obama could call them essential services and keep them running, but why would he? Let the GOP lie in it's own low rent diaper wetting mess.


Are you saying that they usually station park rangers on the highways where someone might see something scenic and stop to see it better?

I'm no Republican, but in this instance, the Republicans don't really look like the party at fault.


I think the Republicans may pull a coup de tete, if they do this just right. I don't think Obama saying he will not negotiate in good faith with the Republicans helps him. I agree with the Republicans somewhat on some issues, but I seriously think they are trying to at least offer something (like opening up the parks and such)



eric76
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06 Oct 2013, 7:06 pm

What is the purpose of not letting people go to their homes?

From http://www.ktnv.com/news/local/Lake-Mead-Property-Owners-Forced-Out-Until-Gov-Shutdown-Ends-226557661.html?lc=Smart:

Quote:
Las Vegas, NV (KTNV) -- The government shutdown is being felt close to home for some locals. They say they're being forced out of private homes on Lake Mead because they sit on federal land.

Joyce Spencer is 77-years-old and her husband Ralph is 80. They've been spending most of their time in the family ice cream store since going home isn't an option.

The Spencers never expected to be forced out of their Lake Mead home, which they've owned since the 70s, but on Thursday, a park ranger said they had 24 hours to get out.

...

The Stewart's Point home sits on federal land, so even though the Spencers own their cabin outright, they're not allowed in until the government reopens.

Park officials said property owners can visit only to retrieve belongings; they sent Action News a statement which reads in part, "Unfortunately overnight stays are not permitted until a budget is passed and the park can reopen."



zacb
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06 Oct 2013, 7:06 pm

eric76 wrote:
simon_says wrote:
The official argument is that tens of thousands of park rangers are furloughed. There is no one to protect those sites. Who would prevent or repair any vandalism or theft?

Of course Obama could call them essential services and keep them running, but why would he? Let the GOP lie in it's own low rent diaper wetting mess.


Are you saying that they usually station park rangers on the highways where someone might see something scenic and stop to see it better?

I'm no Republican, but in this instance, the Republicans don't really look like the party at fault.


I think the Republicans may pull a coup de tete, if they do this just right. I don't think Obama saying he will not negotiate in good faith with the Republicans helps him. I agree with the Republicans somewhat on some issues, but I seriously think they are trying to at least offer something (like opening up the parks and such).



simon_says
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06 Oct 2013, 7:13 pm

What can the Republicans possibly offer Obama to destroy his signature achievement? He's not up for election again. And if he agrees to the extortion they'll just demand something else in a few months. It's bad policy to give in to those kinds of threats.

Their best chance for a deal is right now, on non-Obamacare issues. I believe Obama when he says the upcoming debt ceiling is non-negotiable. That's money that Congress already voted to spend. Pay the bill.



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06 Oct 2013, 11:27 pm

the boner man had his chance to be a decent statesman but he irresponsibly chose raw power instead, and to hell with everything else. when he meets his maker he will have some 'splainin' to do.