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Misslizard
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08 Oct 2013, 7:57 pm

I just tried to go to Buffalo Nat river to see if it was open,the site is closed due to Gov shutdown.But I can still get in that park :twisted: Now would be the best time to float where there is water,no Rangers. :lol:


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eric76
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08 Oct 2013, 8:04 pm

From http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/gestapo-tactics-used-on-americans-at-yellowstone/:

Quote:
The park service has been all over the news during the partial federal government closure for erecting barricades at the otherwise open and accessible military memorials on the Washington Mall. World War II veterans who traveled hundreds of miles to visit, for example, were told they were not allowed on a public sidewalk there to see the memorial.

Members of Congress personally got involved, taking down the barricades, although they were brought back, with wire to tie them together, according to reports.

It was there that an angry park ranger affirmed the Obama administration has given instructions that the shutdown impact be made as painful as possible for the American public.

We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can,” he said. “It’s disgusting.”
Remember that -- "as painful as possible" -- and think about who is doing that to you and it isn't the Republicans.



auntblabby
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08 Oct 2013, 8:09 pm

horsepuckey- there are 220 votes in the house [all 203 dems and 17 rethugs] for a clean budget bill, so the only obstacle is TP and bonerman. THEY are the problem here.



eric76
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08 Oct 2013, 8:27 pm

auntblabby wrote:
horsepuckey- there are 220 votes in the house [all 203 dems and 17 rethugs] for a clean budget bill, so the only obstacle is TP and bonerman. THEY are the problem here.


I wonder where you are getting those numbers.

If there are 203 Democrats in Congress ready to vote for a "clean" budget bill, whatever that is, then they must have snuck in some ringers. There isn't even 203 Democrats in Congress at present.

Whether they have enough Republicans who will vote along with the Democrats is something nobody really knows. The only way to find out is to put it to a vote. You can bet that if it comes to a vote, there is going to be immense pressure on the Republicans who might consider voting for the bill to not do so. If you think there is something wrong with that, then get over it because it happens all the time in both parties.

And while we are at it, I find your continued referring to the Republicans as "rethugs" to be patently offensive. It doesn't show anything bad about the Republicans, but it does paint you in extremely unflattering tones. It guarantees that many people will not listen to you and will not value your opinion at all. I promise you that whenever I hear people calling others by such names, I think much the less of them as a result. Intelligent and honest people don't need to use such despicable tactics -- they are the tactics of losers.

Why do you do it? Does it make you feel good to be able to look down on them? Does it make you feel intelligent? I can guarantee you -- it doesn't make you look intelligent to others.

Maybe you will sooner or later understand that if you have no respect for others, others will not respect you in return.

You really need to grow up and learn to respect others. Until you do so, why should anyone have any respect for you or your views?



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08 Oct 2013, 8:33 pm

eric76 wrote:
And while we are at it, I find your continued referring to the Republicans as "rethugs" to be patently offensive. It doesn't show anything bad about the Republicans, but it does paint you in extremely unflattering tones. It guarantees that many people will not listen to you and will not value your opinion at all. I promise you that whenever I hear people calling others by such names, I think much the less of them as a result. Intelligent and honest people don't need to use such despicable tactics -- they are the tactics of losers. Why do you do it? Does it make you feel good to be able to look down on them? Does it make you feel intelligent? I can guarantee you -- it doesn't make you look intelligent to others. Maybe you will sooner or later understand that if you have no respect for others, others will not respect you in return. You really need to grow up and learn to respect others. Until you do so, why should anyone have any respect for you or your views?

I reserve the right to be offended by people who are thugs [by dint of what they do to the working class] and by people who defend such, and that includes YOU!! !



eric76
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08 Oct 2013, 8:51 pm

auntblabby wrote:
eric76 wrote:
And while we are at it, I find your continued referring to the Republicans as "rethugs" to be patently offensive. It doesn't show anything bad about the Republicans, but it does paint you in extremely unflattering tones. It guarantees that many people will not listen to you and will not value your opinion at all. I promise you that whenever I hear people calling others by such names, I think much the less of them as a result. Intelligent and honest people don't need to use such despicable tactics -- they are the tactics of losers. Why do you do it? Does it make you feel good to be able to look down on them? Does it make you feel intelligent? I can guarantee you -- it doesn't make you look intelligent to others. Maybe you will sooner or later understand that if you have no respect for others, others will not respect you in return. You really need to grow up and learn to respect others. Until you do so, why should anyone have any respect for you or your views?

I reserve the right to be offended by people who are thugs [by dint of what they do to the working class] and by people who defend such, and that includes YOU!! !


Like I say, if you don't respect people, then don't be surprised when they have no respect for you because you sure as hell don't deserve their respect.



auntblabby
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08 Oct 2013, 9:07 pm

eric76 wrote:
Like I say, if you don't respect people, then don't be surprised when they have no respect for you because you sure as hell don't deserve their respect.

why in hell should I respect the people who pee on my leg then tell me it's only raining? that is like expecting an extortionist's victim to have respect for the extortion. btw you never answer why the TP has such disrespect for the concerns of working class folk [as in affordable health care and reliable retirement]. is it because we collectively put the lie to horatio alger? you have no idea how offensive a thing it is when TPers suggest to impressionable young folk that they should go bare rather than use obamacare, that is telling them a big fat LIE that could result in financial catastrophe for many.



Last edited by auntblabby on 08 Oct 2013, 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Misslizard
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08 Oct 2013, 9:19 pm

I'm going to trespass in the park tomorrow,my act of civil disobedience.We all should,everyone just go to the park,it's yours,not the stupid f*****g government.


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auntblabby
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08 Oct 2013, 9:20 pm

Misslizard wrote:
I'm going to trespass in the park tomorrow,my act of civil disobedience.We all should,everyone just go to the park,it's yours,not the stupid f***ing government.

good luck 8)



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08 Oct 2013, 10:06 pm

Quote:
Do you think the Democrats are ready to negotiate at all about anything? Are you that delusional?

The Democrats have no intention of negotiating. They want to crack the whip and make the Republicans do whatever they say. And in the process, with a lot of help from the press, they are making it look like it is the Republicans who refuse to negotiate.


Democrats have already negotiated many times on this in the past and this time have already accepted the sequestration level of budget without trying to increase it. So they've already given something as even some Republican congressmen have admitted.

Those are facts. The reason Republicans are making demands again is that it's worked for them in the past.

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Like I say, if you don't respect people, then don't be surprised when they have no respect for you because you sure as hell don't deserve their respec


Yeah, that's how it works. Welcome to Earth. You earn respect or scorn. The baggers have earned scorn. They are ignorant, loud and prone to spreading outrageous lies. You make your judgements and others will make theirs.



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08 Oct 2013, 10:22 pm

I think it comes down to a disagreement about what kinds of things are up for discussion when the government is setting a budget. According to the Tea Party definition, seemingly anything and everything is on the table, as everything costs money. That definition is simply too broad to be workable.



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09 Oct 2013, 4:17 am

auntblabby wrote:
eric76 wrote:
Like I say, if you don't respect people, then don't be surprised when they have no respect for you because you sure as hell don't deserve their respect.

why in hell should I respect the people who pee on my leg then tell me it's only raining? that is like expecting an extortionist's victim to have respect for the extortion. btw you never answer why the TP has such disrespect for the concerns of working class folk [as in affordable health care and reliable retirement]. is it because we collectively put the lie to horatio alger? you have no idea how offensive a thing it is when TPers suggest to impressionable young folk that they should go bare rather than use obamacare, that is telling them a big fat LIE that could result in financial catastrophe for many.


The fact of the matter is, the Republicans and their tea party Frankenstein monster already have no respect for people like you and I. We don't fit into their Randian fantasy of the strongest surviving, while the rest of us weaklings are allowed to die off. Funny how people who don't believe in biological Darwinism absolutely believe in social Darwinism. So if they hate us first, we ought to have the right to hate them right back.
And to get back to the OP, my impression of Boehner is that he's a career politician cruising through his job which he plans to keep for the rest of his life. At the same time, he's weak; refusing to stand against the tea baggers, because they can threaten his cushy job in a way the Democrats never could. So, he's living in fear that he'll be unseated in a Republican primary against a tea party candidate back home. At one time, he seems to have honestly believed he could control the tea baggers as long as he played ball with them. Now, he has to be content playing "step and fetch it" with them - a very humiliating and demeaning thing for a Speaker of the House to have to do.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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09 Oct 2013, 10:19 am

lotuspuppy wrote:
So what do y'all think of John Boehner? It's interesting to me that Boehner gets so much heat for the government shutdown (I think deservedly so), and everyone pretends Boehner can end this thing if he wants to. The reality, I think, is much more complex. Boehner fascinates me because, unlike Obama, it's not clear what position Boehner should take. The House GOP is in the midst of a civil war between the Tea Party crowd and more mainline Republicans. The Tea Party is currently the more powerful faction, but Boehner has acted in the past as a more mainline Republican.

I personally feel sorry for Boehner. I think he would personally love to end the government shutdown, and indeed would have prevented the sequester if it were up to him. Nevertheless, I feel he realizes that doing anything against the Tea Party's wishes jeopardizes his political future. He may not have the courage to defy the Tea Party, but frankly, if he did, Boehner would probably be replaced by a Speaker who was even more extreme.


Its a very interesting topic, to be sure. Putting his politics aside (which I happen to disagree with for the most part), I think his speakership has been a disaster for the country. And I don't necessarily blame him personally, nor am I sure that there's another Republican who could do better given how divided the Republicans seem to be. But what I do see is that, his fault or not, as a leader of the Republican caucus, he is ineffective, and this is a huge problem. Even when he seems to negotiate in good faith with the Democrats, it seems that often he can't get his membership to go along with what he's agreed to. Because of this, negotiations and compromise have become difficult or impossible, and so very little is being done legislatively. In the past, the membership voted for the speaker at least with the theory that most of them would be in general agreement with him most of the time. But in this case, many of the Republians are not in agreement with Boehner or many of the other Republicans almost all the time.

I think part of the problem is that no one is acknowledging something that's unspoken but is apparent to everyone who's paying attention - America no longer has two major political parties, it has three - the democrats, the mainline Republicans and the Tea Party. Things in the house would probably go better if the Tea Party had its own elected leader. Perhaps the Tea Party and the other Republicans could join forces to maintain control of the house, but they should be acknowledged as separate parties, most likely, with separate leadership and a separate place at the negotiating table - side by side with Boehner, not with Boehner acting as a gopher between the Tea Party and the Democrats.

In any case, what's going on right now I think sets a very dangerous precedent. Unless one party controls the Presidency, the House, and a 60 vote supermajority in the Senate. then the other party can effectively stop the government from functioning. As long as our representatives are willing to go to the extremes that we've seen lately rather than compromise, it will be nearly impossible for government to function. Quite scary because its highly unlikely either party will have those types of majorities any time soon.



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09 Oct 2013, 10:47 am

I think it possible that the entire shutdown has been orchestrated by "normal" Republicans, in order to turn people against the Tea Party and purge them from their organization before the next presidential election.



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09 Oct 2013, 11:03 am

YippySkippy wrote:
I think it possible that the entire shutdown has been orchestrated by "normal" Republicans, in order to turn people against the Tea Party and purge them from their organization before the next presidential election.


The thing is though that these Tea Party politicians, unlike most politicians, actually do represent the views of the people who elected them! Also, unlike most other politicians, Tea Partiers seem not as willing to compromise their ideals at all in order to make things work. A lot of the people who vote for Tea Party candidates really believe that our government in its present form needs to be overthrown or shut down permanently. For them in their situations, maybe that would be an advantage, maybe not, but for most Americans it would not be so nice to let corporate monsters get away with even more than what they get away with now and to have a fundamentalist theocracy as the form of government.


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09 Oct 2013, 12:48 pm

simon_says wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
simon_says wrote:

A) The SC is the arbiter of Constitutionality and they ok'd Obamacare even with a conservative majority. As did a majority of the lower courts who dealt with it.
I thought that we the people part was pretty self explanatory. If this is the case that this SC or what ever
has the say of what is constitutional, and not the people, then we are already serving under a monarchy.


B) Obama has submitted a budget every single year.
No he has not, and if he did, he just tells the democrats to reject it. You seem to forget it is not PASSING A BUDGET that is unconstitutional.

C) Bush took the budget from 1.8 trillion to 3.1 before including $700 billion from TARP. Obama's budgets have topped out at 3.8 for years and deficits are falling as revenue recovers from the collapse. His signature policy hasnt kicked in yet and Republicans have had the House since 2010. He didnt start the Iraq war, or it's costs, but he did wind it down. And Obama can't control the automatic spending from food stamps and other programs that kick in during a historic economic collapse.
The Senate is the one rejecting it, and don't act like the Liberal media is Master Of Puppets, and believe everything they say.
Obama's Senate doesn't want to pass a realistic budget, and they win either way, Obama spends as much as he wants or a whole stinking lot, something the logical republican would obviously think is ludacris. Who spends more and more with no limit because of no budget, Obama. Bush inherited the peak of the economy from Clinton, who inherited the slump of our economy from bush sr.. Take highschool economics again, the economy is a wave, or LOOK AT THE SQUIGGLES EXPLAINING GROWTH AND DROP IN OUR ECONOMY!




D) GM is doing very well.
Goverment Motors vs Ford, nuff said

E) Why would he kill the President of Iran?
He supports Hezbollah, and killed every pro US iranian who started to protest. what did obama do? Shook his hand and said, "good job let's hang out and eat humus and Persian wine." the Iranian people were ready for us to squash that midget like we were helping lybia, well seems Obama thinks Lybians are more important than Iranians who think Americans are awesome.
Quote:
Are you saying that they usually station park rangers on the highways where someone might see something scenic and stop to see it better?

I'm no Republican, but in this instance, the Republicans don't really look like the party at fault.


They blocked off some apparently federal viewing areas along the highway. The agency responded to the state and said they were only trying to block access inside and to direct people to viewing areas. They are down now due to weather and the state says they'll watch how they go back up. So....

The Republicans cannot deal emotionally with the fact that 11 months ago they lost the Presidency, 8 House seats and 2 Senate seats. They expected a big win. Now their Obamacare busting dreams have collapsed and they've decided to hold the government, and the US credit rating, hostage.


You are so woefully confused on just about every point that there isnt any point is trying to explain things to you.


You don't think you can defend against it? Must be the truth then for sure!


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