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Socialism vs. Capitalism
Socialism 56%  56%  [ 25 ]
Capitalism 44%  44%  [ 20 ]
Total votes : 45

Alexius848
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07 Oct 2013, 4:44 am

Hi everyone what do you prefer socialism or capitalism, I'm a socialist because it seems logical and fair to me, so what do you guys prefer there is a quiz at this website.

http://www.blogthings.com/areyouasocialistorcapitalistquiz/

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You Are 0% Capitalist, 100% Socialist

You see a lot of injustice in the world, and you'd like to see it fixed.
As far as you're concerned, all the wrong people have the power.
You're strongly in favor of the redistribution of wealth - and more protection for the average person.



DentArthurDent
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07 Oct 2013, 5:01 am

Firstly please could you define socialism. In the past there has been a lot of debate on this subject and many people equate socialism with various styles of social nationalism eg Stalinism, Maoism. I have even had debates with people who think that the social democracy of the 60's and 70's British Labour governments was socialism and even worse that the union movement is socialist. So we need to define in this instance what you mean by socialism. Is it a style of social democracy framed within the existing capitalist system, or an economic system which removes the profit motive.

But for the record I scored

0% Capitalist, 100% Socialist

Which is an accurate assessment, however many of the questions could have been phrased very differently. E.G on prostitution I did not click that it should be be legal as I do not think we should live in a society where it is necessary for individuals to market their bodies for profit. Where as some would also not click because they see prostitutes as scum and they should be sent to gaol


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Last edited by DentArthurDent on 07 Oct 2013, 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Alexius848
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07 Oct 2013, 5:05 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
Firstly please could you define socialism. In the past there has been a lot of debate on this subject and many people equate socialism with various styles of social nationalism eg stalinism, maoism. I have even had debates with people who think that the social democracy of the 60's and 70's British Labour governments was socialism and even worse that the union movement is socialist. So we need to define in this instance what you mean by socialism. Is it a style of social democracy framed within the existing capitalist system, or an economic system which removes the profit motive.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/socialism

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism

I prefer Democratic Socialism because I like democracies and hate dictatorships.

DentArthurDent wrote:
But for the record I scored

0% Capitalist, 100% Socialist
Which is an accurate assessment, however many of the questions could have been phrased very differently. E.G on prostitution I did not click that it should be be legal as I do not think we should live in a society where it is necessary for individuals to market their bodies for profit. Where as some would also not click because they see prostitutes as scum and they should be sent to gaol


I agree their were errors in the quiz and agree with your point on socialism because I’m sure the prostitutes don't enjoy it, I thin prostitutes should not be punished for their way of life it should be their handlers who go to jail.



Last edited by Alexius848 on 07 Oct 2013, 5:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

DentArthurDent
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07 Oct 2013, 5:18 am

Alexius848 wrote:

I prefer Democratic Socialism because I like democracies and hate dictatorships.


You see here we go again because from a Marxist/Trotskyist perspective socialism is the pinnacle of democracy. Once again we have the confusion of Stalinism/Maoism etc with socialism. Leon Trotsky defined Stalinist Russia as a "degenerated workers' state".


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Alexius848
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07 Oct 2013, 5:21 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
Alexius848 wrote:

I prefer Democratic Socialism because I like democracies and hate dictatorships.


You see here we go again because from a Marxist/Trotskyist perspective socialism is the pinnacle of democracy. Once again we have the confusion of Stalinism/Maoism etc with socialism. Leon Trotsky defined Stalinist Russia as a "degenerated workers' state".


I never said stalinism or maoism were socialist I just said I like democracies and hate dictatorships like Nazi Germany for example.



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07 Oct 2013, 6:48 am

Flawed poll is flawed. It's predicated on statism.

I don't think taxation is ever moral. I don't think systematically violating rights can ever be justified on the grounds of protecting rights, because it's inherently self contradictory and there is no room of contradictions in my worldview. Paradoxes, yes, but only if both sides are quite clearly true.

But I still believe in free education, and healthcare. Just not at gunpoint.



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07 Oct 2013, 6:58 am

Why people need to choice between them??
Great problem of humanity, socialism is impossible without capitalism and the inverse also is true. They are complements.



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07 Oct 2013, 7:13 am

You Are 28% Capitalist, 72% Socialist

Can't say I think the quiz is that accurate, since I consider myself primarily to be a capitalist (albeit with some left-leaning tendencies).

Anyway, I'm the first capitalist in the poll. Socialism has some interesting ideas but history shows us that at the best, it produces mildly oppressive countries with sluggish economies (e.g. Eastern Europe under socialism), and at it's worst ends up as a Stalinist hell-hole like North Korea. I can get onboard with capitalism mixed with social elements such as the Scandinavian countries but in it's pure form, not worth the risk. I think capitalist countries tend to be more successful since competition between businesses encourages innovation like nothing else and so in the long run everyone's living standards get raised. Market forces are also fairly effective at keeping supply and demand close to one another, whereas socialist countries (see the USSR in particular) often had real trouble using quotas, producing far too much of some products and not enough of others since the quotas took a long time to update.



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07 Oct 2013, 7:33 am

I am actually have nothing against either, as long as they are implemented and run voluntarily. To that , I will add a preface to both. I would not consider what we have now capitalism. I think it is more akin to mercantilism, or state capitalism, where the rich plunder the market through government subsidies, monopolies, IP, and the likes. To me, the free market would be people choosing their ultimate destiny, outside the influence of society or governments.So to that exetent, I advocate agorist or panarchist "capitalism" or free markets if you will. So if you define capitalism as free markets, voluntary arrangements (both private and communal property"), then I would have to go with capitalism.



Alexius848
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07 Oct 2013, 1:29 pm

Jojopa wrote:
[i]
Anyway, I'm the first capitalist in the poll. Socialism has some interesting ideas but history shows us that at the best, it produces mildly oppressive countries with sluggish economies (e.g. Eastern Europe under socialism), and at it's worst ends up as a Stalinist hell-hole like North Korea..


Why would you think North Korea is socialist or Stalinist just because they say they are doesn't mean they are, for example I could say I am a purple Hippopotamus that doesn't mean i am one.



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07 Oct 2013, 1:34 pm

I am a technocrat but i err towards socialism.

Ultimately all price system forms of economics are inherently flawed.


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Jojopa
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07 Oct 2013, 2:29 pm

Alexius848 wrote:
Jojopa wrote:
[i]
Anyway, I'm the first capitalist in the poll. Socialism has some interesting ideas but history shows us that at the best, it produces mildly oppressive countries with sluggish economies (e.g. Eastern Europe under socialism), and at it's worst ends up as a Stalinist hell-hole like North Korea..


Why would you think North Korea is socialist or Stalinist just because they say they are doesn't mean they are, for example I could say I am a purple Hippopotamus that doesn't mean i am one.


North Korea was originally created as an attempt by the USSR to set up a socialist state in the Korean peninsula, over time admittedly they have deviated from that to their unique 'Juche' ideology but nevertheless, it shows one of the possible risks of attempting to make a socialist state in the first place. Which is exactly my point, historically states claiming to be socialist tend to either become super-oppressive, fail economically or both. The only successful 'socialist' nations are those like China which essentially jettisoned their socialism in exchange for state capitalism when they realised the former didn't work. Social democracy works well too as I mentioned previously but again, that's basically just capitalism with a particularly large welfare state bolted on rather than actual 'seize the means of production!' socialism.



Alexius848
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07 Oct 2013, 2:38 pm

Jojopa wrote:
Alexius848 wrote:
Jojopa wrote:
[i]
Anyway, I'm the first capitalist in the poll. Socialism has some interesting ideas but history shows us that at the best, it produces mildly oppressive countries with sluggish economies (e.g. Eastern Europe under socialism), and at it's worst ends up as a Stalinist hell-hole like North Korea..


Why would you think North Korea is socialist or Stalinist just because they say they are doesn't mean they are, for example I could say I am a purple Hippopotamus that doesn't mean i am one.


North Korea was originally created as an attempt by the USSR to set up a socialist state in the Korean peninsula, over time admittedly they have deviated from that to their unique 'Juche' ideology but nevertheless, it shows one of the possible risks of attempting to make a socialist state in the first place. Which is exactly my point, historically states claiming to be socialist tend to either become super-oppressive, fail economically or both. The only successful 'socialist' nations are those like China which essentially jettisoned their socialism in exchange for state capitalism when they realised the former didn't work. Social democracy works well too as I mentioned previously but again, that's basically just capitalism with a particularly large welfare state bolted on rather than actual 'seize the means of production!' socialism.


I don't think the leaders of North Korea ever wanted to become socialist all they wanted was complete control over the defenseless citizens of the Korean peninsular. And just because Socialism has never succeeded before doesn't mean it isn't worth trying, capitalism has never succeeded and yet you love it and by the way it took Thomas Edison numerous tries to make the light bulb. China is not socialist they let their people be paid a dollar a day by foreign corporations with no sick leave or other benefits nor any safety precautions.



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07 Oct 2013, 3:06 pm

Alexius848 wrote:
Jojopa wrote:
Alexius848 wrote:
Jojopa wrote:
[i]
Anyway, I'm the first capitalist in the poll. Socialism has some interesting ideas but history shows us that at the best, it produces mildly oppressive countries with sluggish economies (e.g. Eastern Europe under socialism), and at it's worst ends up as a Stalinist hell-hole like North Korea..


Why would you think North Korea is socialist or Stalinist just because they say they are doesn't mean they are, for example I could say I am a purple Hippopotamus that doesn't mean i am one.


North Korea was originally created as an attempt by the USSR to set up a socialist state in the Korean peninsula, over time admittedly they have deviated from that to their unique 'Juche' ideology but nevertheless, it shows one of the possible risks of attempting to make a socialist state in the first place. Which is exactly my point, historically states claiming to be socialist tend to either become super-oppressive, fail economically or both. The only successful 'socialist' nations are those like China which essentially jettisoned their socialism in exchange for state capitalism when they realised the former didn't work. Social democracy works well too as I mentioned previously but again, that's basically just capitalism with a particularly large welfare state bolted on rather than actual 'seize the means of production!' socialism.


I don't think the leaders of North Korea ever wanted to become socialist all they wanted was complete control over the defenseless citizens of the Korean peninsular. And just because Socialism has never succeeded before doesn't mean it isn't worth trying, capitalism has never succeeded and yet you love it and by the way it took Thomas Edison numerous tries to make the light bulb. China is not socialist they let their people be paid a dollar a day by foreign corporations with no sick leave or other benefits nor any safety precautions.


No economic system is perfect but you could say capitalism is the least 'worst' system so far tried, the most prosperous nations on Earth are all capitalist so until someone can demonstrate an alternative system that actually works better in practice, my poll votes will continue to go to capitalism. Of course, feel free to disagree with me, diversity is the spice of life after-all and you guys have some of the best national anthems (both the USSR anthems are among my favourites) :D



Alexius848
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07 Oct 2013, 3:09 pm

Jojopa wrote:
Alexius848 wrote:
Jojopa wrote:
Alexius848 wrote:
Jojopa wrote:
[i]
Anyway, I'm the first capitalist in the poll. Socialism has some interesting ideas but history shows us that at the best, it produces mildly oppressive countries with sluggish economies (e.g. Eastern Europe under socialism), and at it's worst ends up as a Stalinist hell-hole like North Korea..


Why would you think North Korea is socialist or Stalinist just because they say they are doesn't mean they are, for example I could say I am a purple Hippopotamus that doesn't mean i am one.


North Korea was originally created as an attempt by the USSR to set up a socialist state in the Korean peninsula, over time admittedly they have deviated from that to their unique 'Juche' ideology but nevertheless, it shows one of the possible risks of attempting to make a socialist state in the first place. Which is exactly my point, historically states claiming to be socialist tend to either become super-oppressive, fail economically or both. The only successful 'socialist' nations are those like China which essentially jettisoned their socialism in exchange for state capitalism when they realised the former didn't work. Social democracy works well too as I mentioned previously but again, that's basically just capitalism with a particularly large welfare state bolted on rather than actual 'seize the means of production!' socialism.


I don't think the leaders of North Korea ever wanted to become socialist all they wanted was complete control over the defenseless citizens of the Korean peninsular. And just because Socialism has never succeeded before doesn't mean it isn't worth trying, capitalism has never succeeded and yet you love it and by the way it took Thomas Edison numerous tries to make the light bulb. China is not socialist they let their people be paid a dollar a day by foreign corporations with no sick leave or other benefits nor any safety precautions.


No economic system is perfect but you could say capitalism is the least 'worst' system so far tried, the most prosperous nations on Earth are all capitalist so until someone can demonstrate an alternative system that actually works better in practice, my poll votes will continue to go to capitalism. Of course, feel free to disagree with me, diversity is the spice of life after-all and you guys have some of the best national anthems (both the USSR anthems are among my favourites) :D


Their is neither a true socialist or capitalist country on earth, and I agree we do have the coolest anthems, even though Nazi Germany was evil they had a very good economy and they were socialist (unfortunately for socialists like me).



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07 Oct 2013, 3:13 pm

If we define socialism as workers' control of the means of the production, I'm a socialist.

If we define socialism as state welfare, I'm a short term socialist.

If we define socialism as state control of the means of production, I am not a socialist.