36 year old female teacher had sex with 14 year old student

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Jono
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28 Oct 2013, 2:23 pm

MCalavera wrote:
I agree with setting ages (even if it has to be 18 ) but only as guidelines, allowing for flexibility for cases that don't warrant such harsh penalties. Some adults can be vulnerable enough to fall into them without being predators or even trying to prey on underage teenagers. They may be mentally ill or not cognitively aware enough to and the teenager might be manipulative and know how to get what he wants, it should not equal doom for the adult in such a case.


In that case, I think that there is already some flexibility. The thing is that then the laws have to be made more complicated in order to account for mitigations and exceptions. There are already clauses that contain close of age exemptions ("Romeo and Juliet" clauses), "power differential clauses", I've even heard of defences where the accused had mistaken the age of the alleged victim (depending on country).



pawelk1986
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28 Oct 2013, 2:54 pm

MCalavera wrote:
I agree with setting ages (even if it has to be 18 ) but only as guidelines, allowing for flexibility for cases that don't warrant such harsh penalties. Some adults can be vulnerable enough to fall into them without being predators or even trying to prey on underage teenagers. They may be mentally ill or not cognitively aware enough to and the teenager might be manipulative and know how to get what he wants, it should not equal doom for the adult in such a case.


I also agree the the teacher may deal with teenage version of Dr. House :D a manipulative egocentric jerk :D



eric76
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28 Oct 2013, 5:38 pm

thomas81 wrote:
I've always preferred older women generally ever since I was old enough to appreciate women. Its what happens when you attend a boys only school and your teachers are the only non-related females you come into contact with on a regular basis.


My age preference was 25 when I was in my late teens and it is still 25 today even though I'm nearly 60.



MCalavera
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28 Oct 2013, 8:25 pm

GGPViper wrote:
So, where do we draw the line?

Last time I checked, the age of consent (AOC) in the "civilized world" (Go home, Saudi Arabian age of consent law. You are drunk... and evil) varies between 13 and 18 years of age.

To make things even more complicated, several countries have:

- "Romeo and Juliet" clauses which eliminate or reduce penalties when the age difference of participants is low, and
- "Power differential" clauses with increase the age of consent (or the penalties) when one participant is in a position of power.
- Different ages of consent depending on the sexual activity (although - in general - these countries are less likely to be in the "civilized category")

How do we resolve this? Well...

1. We could focus purely on the "physical maturity" aspect, in which case most contemporary age of consent thresholds would likely be too high.
2. We could focus purely on the "mental maturity" aspect, in which case - given the rule of thumb about the brain only being fully developed at the age of 25 - most people would be guilty of child molestation.
3. We could design a legal system with the necessary legal tools to appropriately punish true offenders and appropriately protect true victims (=an age of consent), and the necessary flexibility to avoid rigidly applying these tools in unwarranted cases (=judicial discretion)


I like option 3 the best if I understood it correctly. Sure, it might be more work for those in charge, but it also means less severe penalties for those not deserving it.

I agree that power differentials are important to consider when it is actually the case. It is easy for a preying teacher to use that for his own gain to get sex from a vulnerable student. But even then, I think this applies for ages above 18 as well. So the issue here is more to do with power than with age. And we shouldn't just go by mere nominal position because it could be the case that the student is being the dominant one and the teacher turning out to be a naive vulnerable person (for whatever psychological reasons they may be).

And as your data shows, the law doesn't stop underage sex from happening regularly anyway. But then again, this is to be expected (drug use is a similar matter as well). Personally, I think it's the national attitude towards sex that helps. Less peer pressure and all that. I don't know if that's the case for Spain.



MCalavera
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28 Oct 2013, 8:28 pm

Jono, it's good then. I accept your apology. It did hurt me to believe that I was being painted as a potential predator for expressing an opinion different from yours. I appreciate you apologizing and clarifying to me that this is not what you meant.

Anyway, I don't want to spend any more time in this thread, so I'm moving on to other threads.



pawelk1986
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29 Oct 2013, 5:05 am

MCalavera wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
So, where do we draw the line?

Last time I checked, the age of consent (AOC) in the "civilized world" (Go home, Saudi Arabian age of consent law. You are drunk... and evil) varies between 13 and 18 years of age.

To make things even more complicated, several countries have:

- "Romeo and Juliet" clauses which eliminate or reduce penalties when the age difference of participants is low, and
- "Power differential" clauses with increase the age of consent (or the penalties) when one participant is in a position of power.
- Different ages of consent depending on the sexual activity (although - in general - these countries are less likely to be in the "civilized category")

How do we resolve this? Well...

1. We could focus purely on the "physical maturity" aspect, in which case most contemporary age of consent thresholds would likely be too high.
2. We could focus purely on the "mental maturity" aspect, in which case - given the rule of thumb about the brain only being fully developed at the age of 25 - most people would be guilty of child molestation.
3. We could design a legal system with the necessary legal tools to appropriately punish true offenders and appropriately protect true victims (=an age of consent), and the necessary flexibility to avoid rigidly applying these tools in unwarranted cases (=judicial discretion)


I like option 3 the best if I understood it correctly. Sure, it might be more work for those in charge, but it also means less severe penalties for those not deserving it.

I agree that power differentials are important to consider when it is actually the case. It is easy for a preying teacher to use that for his own gain to get sex from a vulnerable student. But even then, I think this applies for ages above 18 as well. So the issue here is more to do with power than with age. And we shouldn't just go by mere nominal position because it could be the case that the student is being the dominant one and the teacher turning out to be a naive vulnerable person (for whatever psychological reasons they may be).

And as your data shows, the law doesn't stop underage sex from happening regularly anyway. But then again, this is to be expected (drug use is a similar matter as well). Personally, I think it's the national attitude towards sex that helps. Less peer pressure and all that. I don't know if that's the case for Spain.


power differentials it can also apply in college, university or work place, someone may use their position for sexual gain, and from what I know, it happens very often.