Women and Masculinity

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I don't p**** foot around either Sol. As soon as it happens I address it right here and hen. The thing is, usually the way I choose to address it would not be by fighting or nagging. I simply set the boundary and make it very clear in a non combative way.

Yes there will be boundary setting, and perhaps even a small misunderstanding or 2. But fights, no. Fights don't usually happen until one person tries to impose their will on the other in a combative way. That's why they can be so destructive and why people often hold grudges over them.

And it's not zero boo, we just deal with them in a different way so they never get to that point. And when they finally do, you know the other person well enough to be able to work through it successfully.

Stalk: no drama relationships are a good thing. With a temper like mine, things evatablity happen in my social life or at work. The relationship is a safe haven where I don't have to worry about more drama.

So much is wrong with this.

I am a mother of a boy and a girl and guess what? I raise them the same. They both have exactly the same oppurtunities in life and can develop their own interests and likes and friendship groups as they see fit. Everybody can be happy in their lives by just being themselves and not pretending to be anything but that. My son and daughter can always talk to me about anything and they will always be treated the same.

I would prefer my son and daughter be happy within themselves and alone then have to change for a partner because they are not good enough how they are.

Also 95% of my friends are men and men discuss life choices with each other and get advice. They just dont take hours aganising over every detail and constantly backtrack. They give their advice and move on.

These are all things we need to adress with 4th wave feminism.

So much is wrong with this - Do you mean the post, or the bringing up of boys? If it's the post, I'd be very happy to be wrong!

As I am sure that you appreciate - not everybody raises children the same way as you. Also, I would guess that you share a lot of values with your friends. I'm not talking about the intelligent equality-driven minorities, and you could well come from a different culture than the UK.

If you work with a lot of children, from different social groups, you will see the point I am making. It's there.

When's this fourth wave going to hit? Who is going to listen?

Solvejg is an interesting person.


I guess I must be bored at work, because I am always the s*** stirrer. I do it everywhere, I think. How can one just be, like, communicating and be happy all the time, it feels wrong to me. Where is the passion and emotional flare etc? I don't do it often btw.

women can be pretty masculine. just look at serena williams

By saying the Western culture is "female", do you mean the 'opposite' culture, the Eastern, is "Male"?
Because whar you've described above applies exactly on Eastern culture as well.

Shau, It sounds to me that you have a pretty good grasp on how to treat and handle this relationship. That shows a lot of maturity. You should be proud.

Cultural differences can be hard to overcome sometimes. You both need to be willing to at least try to accomidate each other. You should encourage fairly regular open and honest dialogues with her. It'll help you both realize fairly quick if this is something worth pursuing.

is Solvejg a mother or someone who doesn't want children?

I have lost the plot..as so often happens.

The only thing I know is that people are different. When I was little I wanted all the borders to disappear because I thought everyone would be happy because that was what makes me happy. As I grew up I found people are not like me. They are not like eachother either. The BIOS is the same but from there on everything differs. Operating system, software, style, peripherals..you name it.. is why each one of us is unique. So it's daft to approach life with the attitude of 'right, this is how women are and this is how men are and this is a lever I can pull to get this result' - as much as HFA spectrum people would love this type of manual, it doesn't exist, you have to build one for each person you meet and the cheat codes are not always reliable.

There. I said my peace. Perhaps without making much sense but whatever.

I am sort of considering this blindness issue and the fact that a lot of my female friends have told me that the man's appearance plays secondary influence in their attraction and ..well they don't call it a male brain for nothing.. I cannot feel attracted to someone unless I am visually attracted to someone. If they have the most beautiful soul or brain then I will hope to be their friend but there is just no way that I could ever fall for someone without seeing them.

If I talk to certain people online who I may like the sound of, I will think to myself 'I really hope you are hot otherwise this is a pitiful waste of everyone's time'. Does this mean I am shallow?

Solveg, you are driving me nuts!

Earlier in the thread you were generalizing women's behaviour and quite deliberately setting yourself as outside of being a woman, in a nutshell you claimed you're not a nit-picky gossip but that most women are, while most men aren't. Then most recently you complained about someone who was generalizing about how women raise kids, and suddenly you attach yourself to the subgroup of being a woman while you fight against generalizations about how mother's raise kids. (Which itself is also rather funny, because you're not even countering what octobertiger was saying but are presenting it as if you were.)

Also, it's despicable to me that if you have a child with someone, it's yours alone to raise, as if the father didn't have anything to do with it and has no rights with his own kid. That's awful.


I agree to something said much earlier in this thread, about men only acting hyper-masculine around other men. Whether or not it's true, my NT husband, for instance, feels this very strongly. He will also tell me he acts differently with a group of men and I've actually seen him act differently solely with groups of men if when I'm being ignored socially. I'd like to elaborate and say this applies to women too. Women will act differently within a group of other women than they will in a mixed group.

Obviously in the OP's case, this woman is perpetuating a male stereotype. It might purely just be a sexual attraction thing, but I suspect it runs a lot deeper than that.

octobertiger: I actually rather think that there's been a surge in promoting stereotypical masculine behaviours, and I think this itself is almost a rebound to the feminist movements that is making it OK for women to have 'masculine' traits. If women can now do manly things, in order for a man to not be a women they need to push themselves deeper into masculinity.

I should really just shut my big mouth though, even talking about characteristics as masculine or feminine is promoting the stereotypes as far as I'm concerned. I don't like being shoved into a group and stamped with a label as much as the next person which clouds perceptions as to how an individual really's like.

This is the sort of thing I'm talking about solvejg. Maybe the 1st thought isn't a typical gender stereotype, but it most definitely IS a stereotype.

BEING YOURSELF AND BEING CONSIDERED DESIRABLE TO WOMEN FOR IT IS SURE NICE, HUH. As it were, though, that attitude starts to fail people when they're staring virginity right in the face on their 26th birthday and contemplating whether or not they're going to die alone.

Grumble grumble grumble...

zomg how can you NOT see the relevance of your gender identity and sexuality on this conversation when YOUR stance is 'Welp, you're not my gender with my height, so you will never be able to understand what I'm getting at.'

Furthermore, you are confounding one variable with another. That you feel that women pressure you doesn't apply to the idea that men pressure other men. Just because men don't pressure YOU isn't the same as a man not feeling pressured by another man. You aren't asexual. Tomboy or no, men will still treat you as a woman. Transgendered people are never really in some sort of 'cusp' area at all, quite the opposite. They strongly feel that they are the sex they are not; it's the opposite of feeling gender neutral.




So the assumption you're making is that men don't go to childraising forums? Oh wait, you don't let your kids' fathers have a role in their life, of course men don't look into raising children from your perspective.
Importantly though, the only fair comparison between your 'masculine' vs 'feminine' forums would be a craft forum to a car or weightlifting forum. How to raise a person isn't on par with a hobby. People, men and women, are going to be a lot more adamant when it comes down to people that will no doubt go against their personal morals...much like I'm acting towards your view that men don't have the right to their kids. Something like how to do a craft or fix a car though, those activities don't have nearly the emotional significance that raising a kid has.

/frustration

Enh it's worse than you think shau, I'm a heterosexual woman...sorry I guess

*trying really hard to not sound ironic*
Happy Birthday!

Last edited by cavernio on 30 Oct 2013, 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

What I find so funny about all these gender based generalizations is that they can all be flipped around and applied pretty much equally to both. Being shallow, judgemental, illogical and closeminded are human characteristics.

I agree.

No, I wasn't commenting. I don't know enough about Eastern culture - I've travelled a bit, but I couldn't make too much of a generalisation from it. And to be fair, I wouldn't dream of saying anything about the 'Middle East' from the basis of a handful of stops at Abu Dhabi International!

I have seen a lot of advertisement more man-focused, a bit more of a masculine culture, and generally different attitudes towards relationships than I have seen in England and parts of Europe. Also, the money=power and more 'traditional' thinking concerning the male and female roles in a relationship - something that the OP knows too well.

Once again, it's all a picture of society, not a generalisation of the individual, and the posts above substitute a microscope for a telescope.

Last edited by octobertiger on 30 Oct 2013, 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.