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staremaster
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Apple_in_my_Eye
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06 Nov 2013, 12:50 am

If mass murderers are usually mentally unbalanced then they'll probably be on some psychotropic drugs. So, IMO, the problem is the usual "correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation."

I noticed the entry for Hinkley -- he likely took the valium to calm himself after he decided to try to kill Reagan. The two bank robbers in the L.A. North Hollywood shootout took phenobarbital likely for the same reason.

The article also misspells "amitriptyline."



heavenlyabyss
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06 Nov 2013, 4:44 am

I believe there is a correlation. The most common correlation to violence is street drugs, but some people do have bad reactions to prescribed antidepressants and antipsychotics. Drug manufacturers who say otherwise are in all likelihood lying and well are of their lies. I don't have proof, this is just what I believe.



pete1061
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06 Nov 2013, 8:29 am

There is so much corruption and turnaround between the FDA & pharmaceutical industry it's hard to trust the effectiveness of psychotropic drugs. So many of them are poorly tested and grossly over prescribed.
So, yes there definitely could be a correlation.


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zer0netgain
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06 Nov 2013, 9:15 am

Most of these drugs are basically PCP-variants. For many, they may work, but they have known side effects of making the patient much worse.

Under the influence of a PCP-type drug, the ability to distinguish between reality and dreaming becomes blurred. People with violent tendencies or fantasies can act them out in real life all the time thinking it's not really happening.

They are prescribed way too readily and not enough medical supervision is applied to those on the drugs to watch out for these known side effects.

It's the same way there's a lot of drugs for depression, and a known side effect is that they can make the patient worse and lead to suicide. Sounds like the drug should only be prescribed in the worst of cases, not as a way for anyone with depression to try and cope.



staremaster
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06 Nov 2013, 3:31 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
They are prescribed way too readily and not enough medical supervision is applied to those on the drugs to watch out for these known side effects.

It's the same way there's a lot of drugs for depression, and a known side effect is that they can make the patient worse and lead to suicide. Sounds like the drug should only be prescribed in the worst of cases, not as a way for anyone with depression to try and cope.


Absolutely. The patient is told to inform their doctor about negative side effects they may be experiencing, but is also told that there is an adjustment period of discomfort before the effects of the medication can be accurately assessed.
Most psychiatrists would have no issue prescribing amphetamines for depression or ADHD, and then prescribing a "sleep aid" to help the patient sleep through the night.



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06 Nov 2013, 4:23 pm

Maybe.But look at the lives that anti-depressants have saved.


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staremaster
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06 Nov 2013, 6:46 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Maybe.But look at the lives that anti-depressants have saved.

People say that about guns, too. But it takes longer to get a legal pistol than it does to get a prescription for anti-depressants/anti-psychotics...



visagrunt
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06 Nov 2013, 8:54 pm

By that logic, breathing and digestion are also linked to violent behavior. :roll:

Don't get me wrong--I'm perfectly aware that people can have catastrophic reactions to psychotropes, but this survey provides nothing like a meaningful review.


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staremaster
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06 Nov 2013, 9:25 pm

Everyone agrees that guns need some effective oversight. And people say the same thing about psychiatric medication.
But the pharmaceutical industry is much larger than the civilian gun market could ever be, and I think that its power prevents effective regulation of powerful psychiatric prescriptions.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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06 Nov 2013, 10:46 pm

You have to have a consultation and regular visits with a doctor (and maybe a pharmacist) to get prescription meds -- you don't need to check in with someone every 3 months to own a gun.

I say the mass shootings are all due to video games -- they all played them, so it's indisputable. The fact basically everyone now also play video games is of no relevance. [/sarcasm]



staremaster
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06 Nov 2013, 11:37 pm

While there is some evidence that desensitization to violence can occur through games, they don't have physical side effects or create chemical dependencies.
I realize that psychiatric medications are ubiquitous, but that doesn't mean they're harmless.
And that "consultation" was kind of a joke in my personal experience.