First time I've had to really deal with homophobia.

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goldfish21
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09 Nov 2013, 2:31 pm

Thought I'd share.

Last month at work I was discussing the Sochi Olympics and gay marriage w/ my work partner. Conversation just went there after talking about all kinds of current events and politics etc. Then on the drive home (he was driving, I needed a ride at the time) I knew that he could tell my opinions on the stuff were pretty charged.. so, feeling that he was pretty tolerant, I disclosed the fact that I'm gay. He just said "yeah, well, I kinda figured.. most people don't have such strong opinions on that stuff." He then went on to advise me not to say that stuff too loud around work because some of the guys might not be so tolerant. (Construction.) I agreed with that, and besides, I normally never mention it. This was the first time in my life I told a coworker that. I'm rather fortunate in that I don't look and act "gay," so unless I disclose that I am almost no one knows. Other people don't have that luxury, I realize.

Anyways, fast forward a few weeks or so after we were off work due to waiting for a building permit and I'm working with the guy 40' in the air and he's going nuts, kicking tools around, just generally being an a-hole. It was clearly not the time for a productive conversation about why, and I was concerned only for my safety on the job, so I didn't ask or say anything - I just let him be a jerk all day. Couple days later he tells me he was all pissed off because of what's been on his mind, that that stuff I said to him (disclosing my orientation) really bothers him and he considers it sexual harassment. At the time I'm thinking "wtf?" but rather than point out that he doesn't get to redefine the term sexual harassment to fit his homophobia, I simply apologized to him if I made him feel uncomfortable in any way and told him that if he has an issue with anything I say that he can feel free to raise it instantly and clear the air vs. stew about it for weeks and blow up. He shook my hand and said "well, at least you apologized." Again I'm thinking "wtf? seriously? I have nothing to apologize for, a-hole," but kept my thoughts to myself for the sake of work politics. I figured it was over and done with.

Then the same hot head blows up at the staffing agency we're working via because they messed up on his paycheque for the 4th week in a row. Others advised him to just keep cool. He left work to go get his cheque. Later that day I get called into the top boss' office and he says "so, ___ says you're gay." I reply, "yeah." He asks what was said etc, so I told him and made sure to be crystal clear that there was nothing sexual or harassing or explicit and that I wasn't "coming onto," the guy or anything like that - it's simply that the guy isn't as comfortable with knowing that about me than he said he was at first. Also told him it's the first time in my 31years I've disclosed that to a coworker and it's never been an issue because I keep my private life private as it has absolutely no relevance to the work I do. That night I get home and he's left his harness on my front porch because he owed me money for it (in the beginning I needed a ride and he needed some gear, we made a deal so we could both get to work etc.) & while I was annoyed that I'll be out a little bit of cash I figured I wouldn't see the guy again - good riddance.

The next morning I get almost to work when he cuts me off on the road.. I follow him into the parking area and get out of my car and ask him about the bit of money he still owes me. He freaks out and screams and yells and swears and tells me to back off or he's going to knock me out. I didn't react, I just turned and got into my car to go park it and thought to myself.. "good, he's fired up now and here to see the boss about something - just give him enough rope to hang himself with and he will.." and that's exactly what happened. He went into the office trailer and screamed and yelled about who knows what, and according to a guy that talked to him afterwards apparently he threatened to "go outside and smash him (me) right now," and that was the final straw with the boss & what got him fired.

Then I had to disclose my orientation to the agency manager, who I've known for 12 years, as he went and complained to them about sending him to work with me "knowing what kind of guy I am." LOL

FYI had he actually physically attacked me we'd have probably been a pretty even match and I could have defended myself just fine, but I'd simply rather not fight - what for? Anyways, just felt like sharing this whole experience as it was rather eye opening for me. It really does make me feel for those amongst us that have to deal with homophobic BS regularly because they're "stereotypically," gay and can't conceal it if they wanted to. On the flipside, while I'm out to more and more friends and family over the last year or so, dealing with this BS makes me want to be a lot more out than I am - not to cause confrontation, but rather to just say I am who I am and if you have a problem with it, well F you. :) I think more and more gay people need to do that vs. expend mental energy concealing our sexual orientation. Nah, I'm not suggesting a big attention getting coming out or anything, but rather that I feel like I should be a lot more comfortable and open about it in any situation vs. having to feel like concealing it is the appropriate thing to do - ya know?

edit:

The top boss on site was very cool to talk to about this. He said he had never had to deal with anything like this before as he wasn't an HR guy, and I told him I never had to deal with anything like this before either but that I thought he handled it appropriately. He shook my hand when we parted from that meeting and all was and is well. 8)

I was out w/ most of my immediate family the other night and shared the updates on this story and my father commented that maybe I should just keep this part of my life to myself when it comes to work.. I get it, and I told him I get it because I do - and I've typically just kept it to myself, but a the same time I think it's BS that this day and age a guy has to be so guarded and careful about something that should be so trivial and irrelevant to other people as my sexual orientation. I don't mind not advertising it, but I just don't think I should HAVE to make a concentrated effort to conceal it - ya know?


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Last edited by goldfish21 on 09 Nov 2013, 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

redrobin62
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09 Nov 2013, 3:34 pm

Thanks for sharing something so personal. I actually had a homophobic session at one of my jobs about 2 years ago. I forgot how the topic came up but I told one of my co-workers I'm gay. She said something like, "Eww. That's disgusting. You're a fa***t? I hate fa***ts. Why do you want to be a fa***t for?, etc."

I thought her vitriol was uncalled for but I left it alone. I thought about reporting her to the managers but I don't know what they would've done with it. About two weeks later, she was arrested by Immigration for not registering (she's an illegal immigrant from Africa) and sent down to Immigration jail in another city.

I considered that as karmic payment for her small mindedness.



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09 Nov 2013, 4:19 pm

redrobin62 wrote:
I considered that as karmic payment for her small mindedness.


Exactly what I thought of this guy losing his job. 8)


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09 Nov 2013, 4:42 pm

I know its a cliche, but I can only imagine this fella getting angry about this and brooding over it for weeks is because he wants to consider himself a hetero macho type but you've woken something up inside him that he doesn't like about himself.



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09 Nov 2013, 4:58 pm

redrobin62 wrote:
About two weeks later, she was arrested by Immigration for not registering (she's an illegal immigrant from Africa) and sent down to Immigration jail in another city.


A lot of the African countries have a severe problem with homophobia unfortunately, though it does vary in seriousness from place to place.

I'm sorry that this happened to you. That sounds horrid.

Quote:
FYI had he actually physically attacked me we'd have probably been a pretty even match and I could have defended myself just fine, but I'd simply rather not fight - what for? Anyways, just felt like sharing this whole experience as it was rather eye opening for me. It really does make me feel for those amongst us that have to deal with homophobic BS regularly because they're "stereotypically," gay and can't conceal it if they wanted to. On the flipside, while I'm out to more and more friends and family over the last year or so, dealing with this BS makes me want to be a lot more out than I am - not to cause confrontation, but rather to just say I am who I am and if you have a problem with it, well F you. Smile I think more and more gay people need to do that vs. expend mental energy concealing our sexual orientation. Nah, I'm not suggesting a big attention getting coming out or anything, but rather that I feel like I should be a lot more comfortable and open about it in any situation vs. having to feel like concealing it is the appropriate thing to do - ya know?


That's absolutely disgusting. What the hell is wrong with some people? Nutters! What the hell got into him to induce in him such hatred? I really don't get it.

Whilst I wouldn't go about advertising my gayness to the world on a placard if I had it (because people who do that for anything tend to get on my nerves), it's absolutely nothing at all that you should feel ashamed about either and you should not be concealing it either. It is who you are. It seems as though you have a pretty good handle on things, goldfish21. And I'm glad that that twat was sacked.



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10 Nov 2013, 11:25 am

Nambo wrote:
I know its a cliche, but I can only imagine this fella getting angry about this and brooding over it for weeks is because he wants to consider himself a hetero macho type but you've woken something up inside him that he doesn't like about himself.


Yeah, this - or he's had a bit of a logical problem? Example:

- I hate gay people (global world view)
but
- I like this person (emotional)
- but he is gay. (global and emotional are in conflict)

He had a choice between looking at his logic, or dealing with what challenged his logic. He 'chose' the latter. He lacked the breadth to tackle his internal dilemma, so he had to 'get rid' of the external bringing this to light.

Exactly how most people choose to tackle their problems.

It is disgusting that the OP was put in the position that he was.



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10 Nov 2013, 12:20 pm

Blimey goldfish if that's your first real experience of homophobia, it's a doozy.

Talk about a baptism of fire.

The bloke in question sound positively deranged. Glad you had a sensible boss.



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10 Nov 2013, 2:27 pm

Yeah, it was a good one for sure..

On the silver lining end of things, meh, at least I'm "comfortably out," to another friend/acquaintance 8) (agency boss) & the same thing goes for the conversation I had with the top boss on site - it was just a very real, frank, matter of fact conversation - no anxiety, no embarrassment, nothing bad at all. Just neutral, "it is what it is," conversation the way it should be. This was a valuable thing to observe in myself for sure. I know without a doubt that several months ago or a couple years ago these conversations would have been extremely difficult for me and I'd have wished I didn't have to have them, but thanks to the influence of some gay friends - especially one - I'm ever more comfortable with myself. That's one factor. The other that's changed me significantly over the last 5-6 months is the diet/treatment protocol I've been doing to treat myself in terms of ADHD/OCD/Tourettes/Autism/Depression/Anxiety/Dyspraxia symptoms. It's been working amazingly well and I'm no longer an anxious nervous person, which made these conversations flow smoothly and normally vs. being topics that would make me highly anxious, worried, and stressed. Just one more self observation of how much this medicinal diet is changing me for the better in every way. I'm still working on typing up my story and everything I'm doing to treat myself to share with wp when I get it done. It's at 7 or 8 typed pages now and coming along. I'll share it when it's complete.


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11 Nov 2013, 1:48 am

I've had some disturbing homophobic encounters, but none as harsh as you had goldfish21.

I suck at playing or abiding by the gender conformity game and don't bother with it much, and have been called numerous varied homophobic insults and taunts as a child usually at school, or while walking home from school.

But those are not as bad as a few years later when I would walk down this one street a group of teens would gang around me and get ready to beat me up. They thought I was a receiver type gay guy and had a malicious spirit of hatred about them. They would approach and follow me around watching for a good time to strike. Luckily they never succeeded usually because there were too many onlookers or because they were too scared to get hurt because I would ball a fist and show a ready to take someone down with me look. It scared me and made my adrenaline go berserk. Later on I would usually try to avoid the streets those kids frequented because I hated those encounters.



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11 Nov 2013, 5:15 am

I don't look or act "gay," and didn't as a child/teenager, either, so I've never had to deal with crap like you described above with bully kids doing their thing because someone's suspected of being gay. I'd rate that as being more damaging and traumatic than some guy on a jobsite losing his s**t over knowing my orientation when I'm a 31 year old man that can handle the situation with ease. I don't know, but I assume that it would be a lot more stressful to have had to deal with threats of physical violence as a kid than have to put up with the scenario that unfolded over my last work week.


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12 Nov 2013, 9:40 am

Homophobia is still very common but usually it's subtle. Most people subtly discriminate against LGBT people because they don't want to get in trouble. What the OP experienced is pretty explicit and can be quite traumatic but also can be well dealt with because it's a very clear case of discrimination. But honestly I don't think I could handle something like that myself because I get easily stressed out by people's hostility whatever the reason. I'm glad that the OP handled it very well and his boss and others did the right thing. I'm a bit worried about the OP's safety because those crazy idiots could resort to violence after they get in trouble for their bad behaviour.



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12 Nov 2013, 8:54 pm

jk1 wrote:
Homophobia is still very common but usually it's subtle. Most people subtly discriminate against LGBT people because they don't want to get in trouble. What the OP experienced is pretty explicit and can be quite traumatic but also can be well dealt with because it's a very clear case of discrimination. But honestly I don't think I could handle something like that myself because I get easily stressed out by people's hostility whatever the reason. I'm glad that the OP handled it very well and his boss and others did the right thing. I'm a bit worried about the OP's safety because those crazy idiots could resort to violence after they get in trouble for their bad behaviour.



re: bolded bits:

Several months ago I wouldn't have been able to hand the live situation nor the conversations afterwards with such ease. The only way I was able to do so is because of the medicinal diet & treatment protocol I've been following for 5+ months now that's changing e v e r y t h i n g for the better. My anxiety levels that used to be through the roof are now pretty much through the floor. My capacity to deal with stress & stressful situations has increased more than tenfold. As I wrote above, I'm working on typing it all up - I'm about 8 pages in now and will share it all once I can finish it. Bit by bit I'll get it done. I've been typing a bit on my lunch breaks and even in the border lineups waiting to go in/out of the USA.

That thought hasn't really been on my mind much re: safety. This guy knows where I live and could come here if he wanted to. He's a 24yo hothead homophobe. Yeah, he's in pretty good shape and apparently has a pretty aggressive past.. but I'm 31yo, a bit taller than him at 6'2 w/ longer arm reach & I'm currently 190lbs @ 10.5%bf. I'm no fighter, but I'm certainly capable of defending myself if I have to. Besides, I really don't think he's stupid enough to waste his time coming after me for anything since he knows it wouldn't end well for him in terms of getting arrested and charged and whatnot. I appreciate your concern, though, thank you. :)


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goldfish21
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24 Jan 2014, 10:00 pm

This whole thing has taken a dramatic turn this past few days.

I received a document package in the mail from the BC Human Rights Tribunal with this guy's complaints against me. Allegations of Sexual Harassment. The long and the short of it is that due to his homophobia & blaming me that he's out of a job (apparently he quit from the agency and wasn't fired. Another version of events I heard (hearsay) is that he was told if he leaves not to come back. Either way, he's lashing out at me because he's not working & doesn't have an income. So, he's completely fabricated a bunch of allegations that I said some pretty ridiculous sexual things to him.

Fortunately he's not very bright. He has no ability to prove any of his claims that I said these things (that he made up.). Further, he's stated several other things about me in his writing that are not true and that I can prove aren't true. On top of all of that, I'm now learning that he had said other things about me that aren't true to other coworkers before he left.

Now I get to consult with lawyers/legal advisors & learn the whole process of dealing with all of this nonsense.

I'm not worried about coming out on the losing end of this. I can prove he has no proof that his outrageous claims are true. It may even be dismissed because of it. The difficult part may be to prove the he fabricated his story - but that would be ideal, as then I can file for an Abuse of Process as well as to recover costs. There's also the potential of slander/libel/defamation of character and so forth that I need to discuss with lawyers.

As I said to my boss, maybe the silver lining in all of this is going through the process and learning all of this.. no one should have to go through this, but who knows - maybe at some point in the future I'll need to know these things to help a friend defend themselves in a similar situation.

These sorts of complaints are sometimes settled in mediation without a tribunal hearing. I said that it sounds like admission of guilt & extortion for money because I suspect that he's trying to get me and/or the company(ies) involved to pay him some sort of financial compensation. Apparently sometimes these things are settled for an apology. That got my wheels spinning and I thought about my comments on articles about the Vancouver hockey stanley cup rioters that I said should be sentenced to Learning in order to change them for the better as people. I thought about it for a little bit and pondered what I'd have him do if I can turn the tables on this and get him to agree to some sort of educational punishment (in addition to costs to make me whole, and lost money for the charity fundraising I can't spend my time on now, and potentially other compensation if a lawyer figured it was worth pursuing.) & I figure if it were up to me I'd have him sentenced to/agree to doing x# of volunteer hours at a LGBT youth homeless shelter & an HIV clinic in the gay district downtown so that he can have his eyes opened to the reality of what life is like for people that get treated by others in the ways that he's doing to me. I'd be content with that as a part of his punishment for putting me through this.

*sigh* Just another day in the life, eh?


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24 Jan 2014, 11:59 pm

Sorry to learn of the new drama. Unfortunately, I have seen things of this type before - after coming out in the workplace, gay men may be vulnerable to allegations of sexual harassment from those with bad intentions.

I came out in the workplace at a large company around 1990, and became active in LGBT matters there. Here are some of the negative consequences I have personally witnessed:

Smoking Gun - Rare, but sometimes some idiot is stupid enough to overtly make anti-gay remarks or actions. Though certainly stressful, these can be the easiest to address.

Glass Ceiling - Others just happen to receive promotions or opportunities ahead of the gay person. Very difficult to address successfully. Best bet is usually to change departments or hope that those making the harmful decisions will move on.

Allegations of Harassment or Inappropriate Remarks - After coming out, people can make up stuff to harpoon a gay person’s career. (For this reason, at work I never allowed myself to get involved in any sort of off-color joking or conversations lest I have what I say turned against me.) Even if proved wrong, such allegations can place a bit of a cloud over one’s reputation that can lead to a glass ceiling, or having a target placed on one’s back for any upcoming layoffs.

I have taken part in many workplace rallies to promote diversity, including LGBT folks. I have been in LGBT employee conventions where skilled motivational speakers orate on the glories of coming out in the workplace. I have also seen how LGBT employees can sometimes suffer career consequences after coming out.

As a person with Asperger’s, I experienced more than one meltdown and other health issues as a result of all this. Whatever problems with socially fitting-in I might have experienced as a result of my Asperger’s were generally compounded by coming out.

I am sure other people may have different stories, but the above is mine.


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25 Jan 2014, 12:05 am

goldfish21 wrote:
This whole thing has taken a dramatic turn this past few days.

I received a document package in the mail from the BC Human Rights Tribunal with this guy's complaints against me. Allegations of Sexual Harassment. The long and the short of it is that due to his homophobia & blaming me that he's out of a job (apparently he quit from the agency and wasn't fired. Another version of events I heard (hearsay) is that he was told if he leaves not to come back. Either way, he's lashing out at me because he's not working & doesn't have an income. So, he's completely fabricated a bunch of allegations that I said some pretty ridiculous sexual things to him.

Fortunately he's not very bright. He has no ability to prove any of his claims that I said these things (that he made up.). Further, he's stated several other things about me in his writing that are not true and that I can prove aren't true. On top of all of that, I'm now learning that he had said other things about me that aren't true to other coworkers before he left.

Now I get to consult with lawyers/legal advisors & learn the whole process of dealing with all of this nonsense.

I'm not worried about coming out on the losing end of this. I can prove he has no proof that his outrageous claims are true. It may even be dismissed because of it. The difficult part may be to prove the he fabricated his story - but that would be ideal, as then I can file for an Abuse of Process as well as to recover costs. There's also the potential of slander/libel/defamation of character and so forth that I need to discuss with lawyers.

As I said to my boss, maybe the silver lining in all of this is going through the process and learning all of this.. no one should have to go through this, but who knows - maybe at some point in the future I'll need to know these things to help a friend defend themselves in a similar situation.

These sorts of complaints are sometimes settled in mediation without a tribunal hearing. I said that it sounds like admission of guilt & extortion for money because I suspect that he's trying to get me and/or the company(ies) involved to pay him some sort of financial compensation. Apparently sometimes these things are settled for an apology. That got my wheels spinning and I thought about my comments on articles about the Vancouver hockey stanley cup rioters that I said should be sentenced to Learning in order to change them for the better as people. I thought about it for a little bit and pondered what I'd have him do if I can turn the tables on this and get him to agree to some sort of educational punishment (in addition to costs to make me whole, and lost money for the charity fundraising I can't spend my time on now, and potentially other compensation if a lawyer figured it was worth pursuing.) & I figure if it were up to me I'd have him sentenced to/agree to doing x# of volunteer hours at a LGBT youth homeless shelter & an HIV clinic in the gay district downtown so that he can have his eyes opened to the reality of what life is like for people that get treated by others in the ways that he's doing to me. I'd be content with that as a part of his punishment for putting me through this.

*sigh* Just another day in the life, eh?

This guy seems plain crazy. He may be homophobic, but I think he's just mad at you in particular. Had you been straight, he would find some other obscenity to call you. It doesn't justify his homophobia, of course, but it makes me think this guy is a stupid blowhard who picks fights with everyone.

I have been lucky enough to never experience homophobia. My guess is that it'll probably be amusing when I do experience it.



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25 Jan 2014, 12:12 am

lotuspuppy wrote:
This guy seems plain crazy. He may be homophobic, but I think he's just mad at you in particular. Had you been straight, he would find some other obscenity to call you. It doesn't justify his homophobia, of course, but it makes me think this guy is a stupid blowhard who picks fights with everyone.

I have been lucky enough to never experience homophobia. My guess is that it'll probably be amusing when I do experience it.


Oh yeah.. I'd guess he has some mental health issues.

He wouldn't have made the same allegations towards anyone who wasn't gay, so it's definitely homophobia. It's compounded by whatever other issues he has, though, for sure.

Yeah, he told stories of fights, fights with cops, assault charges, getting handcuffed etc. I think he may create problems with others regularly.

And yeah, I'd never experienced it before this.. mainly because people don't know I'm gay unless I tell them. Very few guess or assume it. I'm not your stereotypical gay guy. And in some ways this is amusing to me because it's so ridiculous.. but because of the situation and the serious level he's taken it to, it's annoying & stressful and makes part of me want to broadcast the story publicly and shame people who do s**t like this to others as well as show others in my position that accepting this kind of treatment is not something they need to do.


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