Non Aspies Explaining Things To Us

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A couple of days ago, I started a thread asking people to help me explain Asperger's to non Aspies. I made a joke of it with my cat and nobody really responded seriously - however I am very serious about this topic. I believe that if Aspies don't start communicatingto non Aspies, we will always be stuck in this netherland limbo where so many of us feel completely ignored, isolated and often bullied.

I was writing it myself and I came across a problem. When I was describing the Aspie problem of not being able to read social cues, I thought to suggest to non Aspies that it would help if they could explain social cues to us in those circumstances when we obviously aren't seeing them for ourselves - BUT, big but - how would they do that?

Can we expect them to explain to us mid conversation? Or would we rather they told us later in private, in which case we would still have been left fumbling through the problem conversation. And just how much explaining can we reasonably expect any non Aspie to want to do? Yet, if they don't help us out, how will we ever know?

And then if they did explain by trying to describe those invisible social cues to us, how would that go? Did anybody see the thread about eyes from last night? Would non Aspies say things like, her eyes lit up so and so way and so I knew she wanted me to do this or that?

I am totally baffled about this - what do you guys think? Am I just wrong entirely to think we should ever ask for help? (As a group as in activism, not talking about individuals speaking with people they trust).

I'm just looking for ideas here, a way to begin to touch on this subject.

At my social skills class at my old school, the teacher said people should say hi to each other because it makes them feel good. That explanation made absolutely no sense to my logical mind that sees things unemotionally.

At my new school, the explanations for social rules make better sense.

Explaining social ques in the middle of a conversation likely would not work well (with me, anyway). When someone says, "I'm joking" after having just insulted me, I tend to think that they really did insult me, and that the "I'm joking" part was more for the benefit of their friends -- after all, they wouldn't want their friends to think less of them, right?

We have been communicating for some time. Many of us. Bloggers, authors, public speakers. There are autistic people doing this.

There are certain experiences common among NTs that could serve as relevant reference points in trying to describe AS (which is generally like asking a fish to explain water, imho)

It needs to be related to specific emotional situations so they can perceive it at a rational and instinctive level.

For example: "Have you ever been in a situation where your classmates or colleagues pulled a prank on you (perhaps hiding your bag) and when you protested, they all innocently pretended not to recognise what you were complaining about? Do you remember how frustrated and angry you got, and then how confused you were, and how you even began to doubt your own perceptions in the face of their consistent straight-faced denials?"

That's what the social isolation of AS can feel like all the time.

Or: "Have you ever been in a situation where you've overseen your partner talking intimately with another person and demonstrating signs of physical intimacy with them? Then having to pretend you hadn't seen it, while all the while the idea of being cheated on ate away at your soul, affecting everything you did and every thought you had, trying to put it out of your mind and carry on as normal, while your partner remained totally oblivious to your distress, which only made things even worse?"

That's what the communication limitations of AS can feel like all the time.

Some similar illustrations along those lines would probably do the trick, but it's late at night now and my batteries are running out.

As for the 'eyes light up' thing, it is true. I've encountered it myself once or twice. People's eyes take on a sort of inner light and appear to become luminous for a moment or two. It's particularly unnerving if you're looking them in the eye at the time. It's often associated with love, but I couldn't comment on that. And I once had a girlfriend whose eyes literally flashed when she was angry -- it was like they were emitting translucent sparks.

As for the eyes 'drinking in' etc, this is straightforward personification and shouldn't be taken literally as being an observable feature of eyes that you're missing due to AS/

Ahh ... I see ... (I think) ...

Asking NTs these questions might give them some idea of what we go through:

"Have you ever been to a party where no one would speak with you? Did people then ask you later why you didn't attend?"

"Have you ever sat through a foreign film where you could see that something was going on, but where the dialog made no sense?"

"Have you ever seen a friend, called out their name, and everybody else turns to look at you except the friend?"

"Did you ever seem to say the wrong thing every time you spoke?"

Yes, I like those, and they are much pithier than my dramatic scenarios.

As mentioned there are are social skills classes. Others of us have learned by observing and reading. My 5 decades of experience is that a lot will figure you are different it is up to you to adjust, others will figure since they have have some if these problems they understand and expect you to suck it up since they did. With them all you can do is try and limit interaction with them as much as possible and that can be difficult.

I have had a good number of people on and off over the years really respect my logic, differences, genuineness. I never explained anything to them they just got to know me over time. Those NT's tended be mentally adult and mellow, relaxed and comfortable in there own skin and some of that translated to me making me more relaxed and comfortable in my skin.

I don't think this is a straight forward issue for a number of reasons.

“Social cues” is a broad heading for a lot of different indicators throughout many contexts. Many don't just simply translate to something we directly understand. There are some that may be simple gestures used as cues, while there are others that are more subtle used to indicate variations of word usage and intent. Such as when they mean what they say and when they mean the opposite.

NTs tend to perform them subconsciously. It would probably be as difficult for them to be aware of and express them how we would understand them as it would be for us to figure them out on our own.

While some indicators are more universal, many are local even to particular groups. They can also be somewhat dynamic. Women that work in highly social fields may have a more sophisticated system than working class men for example. It is not a purposely defined system and they often mistake each other. Sometimes things such as general understandings with a particular emphasis of priority can alter the understanding of an exchange.

There are fundamental differences of the function of language and priorities between NT and ASD, especially for ASDs who interpret less through their emotions. In the sentence “Look what I did”, “what” is often the most significant word for ASDs, while “I” is usually the most significant for NTs.

While there are NTs who do have an interest in ASD, most do not. Just the same as the vast majority of people do not learn sign language to communicate with deaf people. Just as the deaf have to learn how to read lips to communicate in the open world, ASDs have to learn NT to do the same.

While we can learn some of the “rules” and I believe it is beneficial that we do, it would be unlikely that an ASD person will ever become as fluent as most NTs. What we can learn is still of significant value, as it will not only help to overcome many obstacles, but also to overcome many of the misinterpretations between ASD and NT. While most NTs will not interpret us as we are, we can present more in a manor that they can understand, and also interpret much of their behaviour as it really is for them. This is an area that causes a lot of grief for our kind and could be avoided. In more sophisticated settings, such as competitive environments relying on favour, we will probably still be lacking. To interpret all the little indicators in real time would be extremely difficult for most of us, and exhausting. Also, some of the perceptive and behavioural priorities for NTs may be directly against those of many ASDs.

loosewheel - those are some really great points. I am aware of most of them, but had never taken the time to write them out like that.

I think you are right that much of this is unconscious for non Aspies and it might in certain circumstances be difficult for them to explain. So explanations may not be perfect on either side, we too will often stumble trying to explain ourselves. I'm aiming for a kind of detente if you will. Aspies and non Aspies - more blending. So we will never understand each other entirely, we can still appreciate each other. Accept each other. Jesus, we're the same freaking species, but you'd never know it from most of the stories here.

Hell no! Lots of people have tried very hard and very passionately, you're right about that.