Why Don't Liberals Move to Europe? (Or North Korea?)

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zacb
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16 Nov 2013, 8:45 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
zacb wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
zacb wrote:
Tequila wrote:
zacb wrote:
If it is so great over there, why don't liberals move there? They always talk about Libertarians moving to Somalia, then why don't they practice what they preach? Maybe we should book a free one way ticket to NK or Europe. Write it off as welfare, although it will help us in the long run :D .


Erm, there is a lot of public sentiment across Europe (and relatively new parties that represent that sentiment) against foreigners simply turning up and claiming benefits.
Isn't the UK liberal in it's immigration?

We allow immigrants to come here if they benefit us- and the vast majority do.

We don't allow people to come here and live off our public services. Much of our country is irrationally xenophobic. The mainstream parties pander to that. A lot of falsehoods are spread about foreigners which only make it harder for them to gain acceptance.

So no, we're not "liberal in our immigration". We're deeply conservative.


I see. I hear a lot of Gumby like individuals bitching about free housing. But then again they are part of the Common Wealth, so that adds a new dimension to it. Who do you think has the most liberal immigration? I hear that a lot of EU countries have amnesty every so often, but is this still the case?


While New York has rent controls as do other cities, my understanding is that most American cities with rent controls are megalopolises, whereas rent controls are applied to small cities and towns in Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_auto_insurance


This is true. but wasn't the West typically more liberal?



ArrantPariah
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16 Nov 2013, 9:40 pm

1000Knives wrote:
Mainly because most of Europe won't let Americans in as naturalized citizens unless you invest hundreds of thousands of dollars or are a skilled trades worker or have a high level college degree.
.


I remember Germany granting people of German descent a "right of return" to Germany. Or, was that just for ethnic Germans in Eastern Europe and Russia?

If you think of it, most Englishmen are basically of German descent, given the successful Saxon invasions. But, they're already in Europe. Still, an American of English descent should be able to claim German descent, given that he had ancestors who moved from Germany to England some 1700 years ago.

Anyways, Americans of German descent ought to be entitled to our EU passports and benefits.

Or, we could try to sell ourselves as mail-order husbands.

http://mailorderhusbands.net/love/order/



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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16 Nov 2013, 9:54 pm

zacb wrote:
If it is so great over there, why don't liberals move there? They always talk about Libertarians moving to Somalia, then why don't they practice what they preach? Maybe we should book a free one way ticket to NK or Europe. Write it off as welfare, although it will help us in the long run :D .

I always ask why don't libertarians and people who don't want any regulation move to China.



JakobVirgil
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16 Nov 2013, 10:26 pm

The answer of course is because U.S. Foreign policy is crazier than its Domestic policy.
We torture non-citizens without blinking our evil eye.


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zacb
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16 Nov 2013, 11:01 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
zacb wrote:
If it is so great over there, why don't liberals move there? They always talk about Libertarians moving to Somalia, then why don't they practice what they preach? Maybe we should book a free one way ticket to NK or Europe. Write it off as welfare, although it will help us in the long run :D .

I always ask why don't libertarians and people who don't want any regulation move to China.


We don't believe in the death penalty :D .



sonofghandi
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18 Nov 2013, 11:13 am

VIDEODROME wrote:
So how is it many European countries are stuck with many Muslim immigrants while American have such a hard time moving there?


In some European countries, refugees/humanitarian cases have exemptions from normal immigration requirements.


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Jojopa
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18 Nov 2013, 1:05 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
1000Knives wrote:
Mainly because most of Europe won't let Americans in as naturalized citizens unless you invest hundreds of thousands of dollars or are a skilled trades worker or have a high level college degree.
.


I remember Germany granting people of German descent a "right of return" to Germany. Or, was that just for ethnic Germans in Eastern Europe and Russia?

If you think of it, most Englishmen are basically of German descent, given the successful Saxon invasions. But, they're already in Europe. Still, an American of English descent should be able to claim German descent, given that he had ancestors who moved from Germany to England some 1700 years ago.

Anyways, Americans of German descent ought to be entitled to our EU passports and benefits.

Or, we could try to sell ourselves as mail-order husbands.

http://mailorderhusbands.net/love/order/


A small correction but actually the vast majority of English people's heritage is the same as the Scottish and Welsh peoples: the original inhabitants of Britain who arrived millennia before the classical era from northern Spain. The Anglo-Saxon invaders contributed more to English culture than they did to the English genome: for comparison the Welsh are estimated to be around 80% Celt, whilst the English are 60% on average.

OT: I'm already in Europe, being a European myself. I'm sure many American liberals would like to live in Europe but we have fairly strict immigration controls, so good luck getting in unless you have some professional skills or are a refugee. Nothing wrong with staying in your own country to improve it no?



beneficii
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18 Nov 2013, 1:54 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
1000Knives wrote:
Mainly because most of Europe won't let Americans in as naturalized citizens unless you invest hundreds of thousands of dollars or are a skilled trades worker or have a high level college degree.
.


I remember Germany granting people of German descent a "right of return" to Germany. Or, was that just for ethnic Germans in Eastern Europe and Russia?

If you think of it, most Englishmen are basically of German descent, given the successful Saxon invasions. But, they're already in Europe. Still, an American of English descent should be able to claim German descent, given that he had ancestors who moved from Germany to England some 1700 years ago.

Anyways, Americans of German descent ought to be entitled to our EU passports and benefits.

Or, we could try to sell ourselves as mail-order husbands.

http://mailorderhusbands.net/love/order/


You should have done basic research instead of posting this claptrap. The right of return is limited to ethnic Germans who are refugees or expellees and their spouses and descendents:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return#Germany



beneficii
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18 Nov 2013, 2:04 pm

I strongly considered immigrating to Canada or Europe to have my sex reassignment surgery paid for by the public health systems there, but doing so would be difficult and I may be denied on the basis that I am going there to have SRS done. Now I hear Japan may actually start paying for sex reassignment surgery in their public health system, and it's easier to immigrate there than Canada or Europe, if you go with a skill like teaching English. So that might be an option.

There are other options, like relocating to California and getting on Medicaid there and having surgery paid for through that--yes, Medi Cal does pay for sex reassignment surgery. As for the statement that you should stay where you are and seek to improve it, I say: Where I am, things will probably not improve very much in the next 10 years, and I'm not sure I'd want to spend another decade of my life wallowing in futility. Of course, I'm also trying to change other aspects of my situation and hope I can make tangible progress soon.



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18 Nov 2013, 3:20 pm

VIDEODROME wrote:
So how is it many European countries are stuck with many Muslim immigrants while American have such a hard time moving there?

There're several reasons.

1. During the 60s, 70s and 80s many immigrants from mainly muslim countries were invited for temporary work in Europe. Somehow our politicians adopted the notion that it's a good idea to let thousands of mainly muslim people from poor countries work here to, after some earning and saving, eventually go back. However, throughout Europe it was decided that these people could stay. Even more: They could invite their relatives to come here, which they did of course, resulting in an influx of extra immigrants.
2. They get a lot of children.
3. There're too many illegal immigrants. After being rejected a permit many start roaming the streets or try to stretch their procedure endlessly. They deliberately get children in Europe in the hopes of those kids being reason enough to not having to go back- and it works sometimes. As we keep giving hope to Africans and others we keep having an inflow of mainly muslims.
4. Refugees. For example, we allowed many Somali people into Europe because of the war in Somalia.
5. It's allowed for muslims to seek a bride in their home country and letting him or her live in Europe.
6. In some countries it's indeed a lot of people from former colonies.
7. That one's for the reasons I missed ;)

And well, Americans don't really fall in any of the categories, so I guess that's why.



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18 Nov 2013, 5:14 pm

sonofghandi wrote:
VIDEODROME wrote:
So how is it many European countries are stuck with many Muslim immigrants while American have such a hard time moving there?


In some European countries, refugees/humanitarian cases have exemptions from normal immigration requirements.


And most muslims in EU countries are immigrant workers and their descendants from way back when immigration was easier and there was a shortage of workers. In some countries also people from former colonies.



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18 Nov 2013, 7:36 pm

I already live in Europe and although I'm leftwing, I'm an anarchist, not a liberal. I don't tell people that in case I get the 'move to Somalia' thing as well. Which is a stupid suggestion considering how feminist and anti-religion I am.


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18 Nov 2013, 7:42 pm

1000Knives wrote:

So the only way Europe will let mass amounts of Americans in is as refugees if we have another civil war. Basically it.


Do it! :P


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18 Nov 2013, 7:47 pm

I would consider moving to Germany, except for the fact that they expect you to be punctual. And not waste time at work.



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18 Nov 2013, 7:59 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
zacb wrote:
Tequila wrote:
zacb wrote:
If it is so great over there, why don't liberals move there? They always talk about Libertarians moving to Somalia, then why don't they practice what they preach? Maybe we should book a free one way ticket to NK or Europe. Write it off as welfare, although it will help us in the long run :D .


Erm, there is a lot of public sentiment across Europe (and relatively new parties that represent that sentiment) against foreigners simply turning up and claiming benefits.
Isn't the UK liberal in it's immigration?

We allow immigrants to come here if they benefit us- and the vast majority do.

We don't allow people to come here and live off our public services. Much of our country is irrationally xenophobic. The mainstream parties pander to that. A lot of falsehoods are spread about foreigners which only make it harder for them to gain acceptance.

So no, we're not "liberal in our immigration". We're deeply conservative.


I used to teach English to new immigrants (usually here by marriage) and asylum seekers and they are mostly hard-working people. My problem is that they sort of live in ghettoes. I can see why asylum seekers don't have much choice about that but with the new immigrants, it made learning English hard and just being able to cope with being part of society difficult. British people being xenophobic creates those ghettoes but it is partly created by the immigrant communities themselves.


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