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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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19 Nov 2013, 4:27 pm

JSBACHlover wrote:
I can't stand these "experts." A formal diagnosis is, of course, reasonable; but good luck in finding someone competent!

Most all of us here "knew" the moment we read the descriptions of Aspergers that we had it. And that AQ test is statistically quite accurate, especially if you get a 45 like I did.

Do you find that getting your oil changed is a major event of the day, and that it exhausts you? Does going to the store wipe you out? Do numbers have personalities to you? Then chances are.....

And if you knew what I know about how frucked up most of these psychologists and counselors are, you'd realize that 90% of them are flying by the seat of their pants and haven't a clue. I am sorry if I am insulting some of you out there. But I've been seeing therapists for 20 years. And, yes, I am angry.

I thought Asperger's Syndrome was really neat the first time I read about it. But it did take me a while to warm to the idea that not only am I kind of close, but I am fully on the spectrum myself.

And the first couple of things I read made it sound like AS was discrete and its own thing. Not that it was part of a Spectrum extending all the way from 'normal' to nonverbal but communicative in other ways (and no such thing as 'normal' anyway and how boring a place the world would be if there was! :jester: )

And I understand about getting your oil change as a major event and exhausting. And for me, I can put off calling my insurance company for day after day. I might get someone friendly who wants to chat and/or someone competent and engaged and the possibility of real progress, or a disengaged idiot, or anywhere in-between. It is complicated. It is a big deal.



Halfmadgenius
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19 Nov 2013, 6:14 pm

Don't' get angry, just get a new counselor.



Callista
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19 Nov 2013, 6:30 pm

Some people think it's a compliment to say "You don't look autistic". If you're not severe-and-obvious, you may not fit your counselor's stereotype of autism, and she may be thinking to herself, "Why are they labeling this person? They look too normal to be autistic."


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blueblahbleh
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19 Nov 2013, 7:34 pm

Callista wrote:
Some people think it's a compliment to say "You don't look autistic". If you're not severe-and-obvious, you may not fit your counselor's stereotype of autism, and she may be thinking to herself, "Why are they labeling this person? They look too normal to be autistic."


I ran into this problem when I decided to tell my family about my asperger's.



Callista
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19 Nov 2013, 8:23 pm

It's the old invisible disability thing again. It's like people think that disability always has to be severe and glaringly obvious. Well, often it's not. It can be quite mild and very hard to spot. So they think you can't have autism because autism is always extreme. They don't realize that disability blends quite smoothly into the typical, and that even a mild disability can set people back a lot if they don't get help. I think if people knew just how mild disability can be and how common it is, we wouldn't think of it as so foreign and scary, and people with mild disabilities would stop exhausting themselves trying to look normal, for want of the really minor accommodations that can make their lives so much easier.


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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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19 Nov 2013, 9:00 pm

I think we need to take a page from gay and lesbian rights, that it mainly needs to be about self-advocacy. And yes, it's okay to be authentically yourself, including being different in ways which count. That's okay.

And good-hearted professionals can help out, but we should not let them run the show.

Now, this can be somewhat scary. But similar to what we do here at Wrong Planet, we can try and help others in respectful ways, and sometimes it's well-received and sometimes it isn't. We can try and post videos which we think are helpful, etc. And we can build and develop our skills all along the way. And we can do these same things with meetup groups and self-advocacy groups. But really, sometimes I think the Internet and WP can be equally or even more productive.

And like what Callista is saying, sometimes with just a little bit of help, sometimes with more help, sometimes just letting us do things our own ways, we on the Asperger's-Autism Spectrum are interesting people to get to know and we can contribute in all kinds of ways. :D



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19 Nov 2013, 11:49 pm

JSBACHlover wrote:
... Most all of us here "knew" the moment we read the descriptions of Aspergers that we had it. And that AQ test is statistically quite accurate, especially if you get a 45 like I did...

In other words, "You might be an Aspie if you believe you are an Aspie after you've read a few dumbed-down descriptions and given a series of subjective answers to an unsupervised on-line test".

Like we really need another delusional belief system ... :roll:


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20 Nov 2013, 12:09 am

fortydaysthree wrote:
Should I be angry about this? My psychiatrist says I am but my counselor is trying to change her mind. She has only met me a couple of times and I think if she knew me more she would see it. You thoughts?


My first (failed) autism evaluation (by some goon working out of the trunk of his car) led to him saying people with autism regard others as inanimate objects, and don't recognize that other people have feelings. Because I could interact and had a sense of humor "obviously" I wasn't autistic.

My own therapist said the guy is nuts, pretty much everyone here at WP said he was a quack, and the Asperger's group I've had contact with said no qualified doctor would have said such a thing, and if he was in their database he was getting at least flagged if not removed.

Your "counselor" may have NO understanding of high functioning autism. Tell your psychiatrist how you feel about this person's line of thinking, and ask if the counselor has the qualifications to recognize/diagnose autism, in particular high functioning autism. If your psychiatrist feels the counselor is lacking the needed qualifications, RUN, and don't look back.

There are other qualified people out there.


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20 Nov 2013, 12:12 am

Fnord wrote:
JSBACHlover wrote:
... Most all of us here "knew" the moment we read the descriptions of Aspergers that we had it. And that AQ test is statistically quite accurate, especially if you get a 45 like I did...

In other words, "You might be an Aspie if you believe you are an Aspie after you've read a few dumbed-down descriptions and given a series of subjective answers to an unsupervised on-line test".

Like we really need another delusional belief system ... :roll:


Fnord? My own therapist made a valid point you might want to take into account.

"If the patient suspects they have a certain condition [oh...like AUTISM], it very often turns out they're right."

My doctor agrees with the therapist.


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AQ 31
Your Aspie score: 100 of 200 / Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 101 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

What would these results mean? Been told here I must be a "half pint".


Fnord
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20 Nov 2013, 12:39 am

There is a deep distinction between suspicion and knowledge. What I find stupid is when a non-medical person claims to know that they have AS, when they are not even qualified to make a similar diagnosis in other people. Nobody knows they have AS until it has been confirmed by a professional. I once suspected that I had AS, but I did not know until my diagnosis. Even then, the diagnosis may change when further data is obtained, or when the diagnosed condition is found to be merely a subset of a larger spectrum of disorders.

Right now, I have an official diagnosis of PDD-NOS, based on the criteria of DSM-V, even though the presentations are the same. So my original suspicion is invalid in the light of new knowledge.


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20 Nov 2013, 1:36 am

JSBACHlover wrote:
I can't stand these "experts." A formal diagnosis is, of course, reasonable; but good luck in finding someone competent!

Most all of us here "knew" the moment we read the descriptions of Aspergers that we had it. And that AQ test is statistically quite accurate, especially if you get a 45 like I did.

Do you find that getting your oil changed is a major event of the day, and that it exhausts you? Does going to the store wipe you out? Do numbers have personalities to you? Then chances are.....

And if you knew what I know about how frucked up most of these psychologists and counselors are, you'd realize that 90% of them are flying by the seat of their pants and haven't a clue. I am sorry if I am insulting some of you out there. But I've been seeing therapists for 20 years. And, yes, I am angry.


^^^ This



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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20 Nov 2013, 12:59 pm

There are ample numbers of both, ample numbers of therapists who are good, ample numbers of those who are lousy, as well as ample numbers of those in the sloppy middle who are sometimes helpful and sometimes not.

What we really need are specific skills to disengage from those who are lousy.



Callista
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20 Nov 2013, 3:24 pm

Fnord wrote:
There is a deep distinction between suspicion and knowledge. What I find stupid is when a non-medical person claims to know that they have AS, when they are not even qualified to make a similar diagnosis in other people. Nobody knows they have AS until it has been confirmed by a professional. I once suspected that I had AS, but I did not know until my diagnosis. Even then, the diagnosis may change when further data is obtained, or when the diagnosed condition is found to be merely a subset of a larger spectrum of disorders.

Right now, I have an official diagnosis of PDD-NOS, based on the criteria of DSM-V, even though the presentations are the same. So my original suspicion is invalid in the light of new knowledge.
That's a bit of a fallacy there--appeal to authority. Doctors can be wrong; patients can be right. In the end, there's no way to know for sure. Doctors are not infallible and some nonprofessionals--including many people on WP--are autism experts that know more about autism than 99% of medical professionals.

Can someone be wrong about their belief that they have an ASD? Certainly. But a professional diagnosis can be wrong, too. The benefit of a professional diagnosis is obvious: The person involved has at least some training, and their belief that you have an ASD opens the door to services. However, a well-educated autistic person, who may have perseverated on autism itself, is likely to be more of an expert than anyone other than a well-trained autism specialist.

I do think that most people who can make a correct self-diagnosis of autism will still need a professional diagnosis. Autism is a disability; the impairments are real; getting help for them can dramatically improve your life. But if you can't get a competent evaluation or you would be hurt by the stigma of having a disability label, then sometimes there's no choice.


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20 Nov 2013, 3:45 pm

fortydaysthree wrote:
Should I be angry about this? My psychiatrist says I am but my counselor is trying to change her mind. She has only met me a couple of times and I think if she knew me more she would see it. You thoughts?


Anger is helpful only if it is used as motivation to act (as opposed to reacting).

Get a second opinion from a new counselor. You can probably get help (referrals) finding a new counselor from your psychiatrist since he/she is helpful.


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Callista
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20 Nov 2013, 3:57 pm

Yeah, you need a second opinion. Your counselor says you're not autistic, but doctors who've worked with you longer say you are. You're going to have to settle this somehow. You could go with whoever's better qualified, but if you really need a yes-or-no answer you can trust, finding somebody who knows adult autism would be your best bet.


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fortydaysthree
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25 Nov 2013, 10:58 pm

I'm going to my psychiatrist tomorrow and talking about this to her. She's really great so I'm sure she'll understand and maybe get me someone else but if not I'll just go with the flow with whatever she wants to do. By the way, she is the one in charge over my situation so my counselor doesn't have too much of a say in my diagnoses.