Do you think abortion is wrong?

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Fair enough. I just wanted to decrease animosity between pro-choice and pro-life with the whole intent thing.

The thing about intent is that when a woman is pregnant and really doesn't need to be at the time, the main goal of hers is simply to get the baby out of her body. The only way that can be done is by abortion. She's not malicious about it and simply wants it dead, she wants it not inside of her. Because abortion is the only way to make her not pregnant, that's her only choice to be not pregnant. So, for people who say it's murder, it's not because her goal isn't simply to kill it, her goal is to remove it from her body by whatever means she has available to her that will work within her time frame. I know women who have had abortions and wished that they could have simply gotten pregnant at a later date, they had no ill will against the baby, they just couldn't have a baby at that time.

That's a good point. I will be more careful about calling it murder.

Would you support the right to abortion if it was merely the forced physical separation of two organisms that you already see as "separate"? Say, a c-section at 12 weeks gestation, and then the woman goes her merry way and the zef can do what it wants, too?

Never mind that c-sections are ridiculously dangerous for the mother as compared to natural birth, which is already 10 times more dangerous than an abortion at 12 weeks...

Sometimes 'accepting responsibility' means 'seeking medical treatment to end the problem,' so, yeah. Abortion can be the responsible choice in the same way that antibiotics can be the responsible choice.

And, not to nag, but don't forget that said penis is not some sort of inanimate object. Women don't get pregnant off of dildos.

So you want women to wait to have an abortion while they try to line up adoptive parents for the baby, then when they can't find anyone willing to adopt the baby, have a late term abortion, where the fetus is even more developed? BTW the general consensus is usually that the woman should have the abortion as early as possible.

And yes the pro life people are full of BS. There are already almost a million children in this country awaiting adoption, and they are doing nothing to adopt those kids. Add another 40 million to that, and their chances for adoption would go to zero. And that will never change. Because the pro-life Conservatives in this country, are the most greedy self-centered SOBs on this planet. They care less about children after they are born. They vote against anything that will help children. The most conservative areas of this country have the worst most underfunded schools, and child services.

I don't think everybody who is pro life is that way at all. I'm pro choice and have many pro life friends and we agree to disagree, and I've even had an extremely rabid pro life friend. However none of my friends were politicians.

One thing you point out is that there are many kids in this country awaiting adoption, but they are older kids and the people who are waiting only want a baby. They won't adopt an older kid, for whatever reason they have for that. This idea would kill two birds with one stone. The woman wouldn't be pregnant any longer and a couple who only wants a baby to adopt, not an older child, would get their baby.

Either way, it'll never happen. Neither side wants to lose such a powerful political motivator as abortion.

I find it so strange, so many pro-life people eat so much meat…. innocent animals being horribly abused during life to meet cruel slaughter at the end of their short, unworthy existence but that's okay apparently. The only difference is that the foetus, without brain activity, is in essence human but does that outweigh all these intelligent, conscious, feeling pigs for instance? It's HUMAN, yes, but that's all there is to it?

And because of something so principle, unwanted children are to be born to moms who can't r won't look after them as they deserve. Just build more orphanages? Nah.

And the arrogance it requires to actually think you (in general) know that it's best to let a child be born. As if pregnant women go for abortion for fun. The fact that they do it to begin with shows imo that in most cases, reasons are more than valid enough. But those are just to be brushed aside for the mere principle of the foetus being human?

Yes, a safe way to do that would be ideal.

Prediction: if religiosity continues to decline, the abortion debate will move to the fringes like it has in many EU countries. One or two generations and people won't care about it anymore.

"Maybe a chance but maybe not
Born to be thrown in the trash to rot
To exist in this world may be a mistake
The one who is with child, it's their choice to make"

and thats all ive got to say on this subject...

I think it's wrong to judge people who abort or to group them all as murderers. The idea that anyone would think that there is enjoyment to be have in abortion is sickening. Do you think the women who choose to abort enjoy it? Of course they wouldn't because it is a difficult and emotional situation for them but in the end abortion might be the only solution they have left. And to have the government force control over such a decision regardless of the situation is just not right. I think you would feel the same way if you had an aging relative on their deathbed or on life support and you had to make a decision to either let nature handle it or allow the doctors to put an end to their misery.

I don't have the right to tell someone what choice to make.There are too many unwanted children out there already.
It's easy to adopt out white babies,not so easy for other babies,and very few want to adopt ones with disabilities or babies born addicted to drugs.Some family friends were on the waiting list for a white baby,they got tired of waiting (for years),and adopted two beautiful black babies.They are very happy with two lovely girls.
It's tough enough to find foster parents for bigger kids,and lots of these kids have baggage so it is even harder to find adoptive parents.And group homes suck.

I am against term abortions. I think terminating the fetus that far along is barbaric and I can't understand why any mother would wait that long to do it. Only time I am okay with it is if there was something wrong with the baby.

Not yet read the rest of this thread, but I am not surprised to find near the top of page one moviefan spouting nonsense. Mr Fan are you aware that if god is so ALMIGHTY that if 'he' intervenes like you believe then,'he' is the most vile infanticidal maniac ever to infest this earth. By your estimation of 'his' powers and definition of "human life," 'he' is complicit in the murder of approximately 50% of all human babies ( I Would call them zygotes)

So before you go off pontificating at, and abusing,pregnant women who wish for whatever reason, to terminate their pregnancy, maybe you should shake you vitriolic fist at the deity you worship. Because it is a fact that nearly 50% of all pregnancies spontaneously abort before the end of the first trimester. And please do not suggest that this is because these zygotes are so holy they only need to be in human form for a few short hours or weeks. If you believe this then you also believe that your god is completely insensitive to the emotions of the relatives involved.

I think that abortion is wrong. But it's not wrong enough to override the mother's freedom to control her own body.

Something can be wrong, but not wrong enough to override a human's freedom to control their life. Everyone knows this, but some people conveniently forget it when it comes to abortion.

For example, I just killed a mosquito that was annoying me. Is that wrong? Yeah, a little bit. Should I feel bad about it? Not really.