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thinkinginpictures
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27 Nov 2013, 3:10 pm

In the past years, the Bible has been abused to mix it with various political agendas (really, it is nothing new, the Bible has always been abused politically), but also heavily criticized for being non-authentical.
In the recent years I have spend a lot of my time studying the Bible and the criticism of it.

The conclusion I have come to is that the Bible does not deserve that criticism, but neither does the Bible grant you access to condemn other people on grounds of race, creed etc.
We must understand the Bible in the context it was written in. The Bible was not handed down to humans from God in one day. Rather it has a long and complex history behind, several hundred years in between the scriptures, written by various scribes.

This became evident by the professor Julius Wellhausen in the late 19th-century, who setup the Documentary-Criticism (or the Documentary-hypothesis) of the Bible in his book "History of Israel". In his criticism of the Biblical claim that the five books of Moses (also known as the Pentateuch) were written by Moses himself, his main argument, amongst others, were of the fact that God had different names, such as Yahwe and Elohim and he could date the books of Deutoronomy back to the 7th century and the scriptures of the Jewish priests exiled in Babylon to the 6th century.

Modern scholars and archeologists such as Israel Finkelstein and Niel Asher Silberman have now confirmed through various archeological findings that Julius Wellhausen was right:
The Bible had not one author or main author, rather it had many authors throughout time and place.

The Hebrew Bible was compiled by greek jews during Alexander The Great's empire and refined and "polished" and put to the text that we now know as the official Tohrah.

When we see the Bible in that context, we must review the Biblical origins. We must allow ourselves to see that the Bible itself has undergone an evolutionary process and has borrowed a lot of its philosophies from ancient cultures. For example the Jewish laws can be dated back to king Hammurabi's Laws. Others would be of greek origin and others from the surrounding area of Palestine.

When understanding the Bible, we must always remember that the Bible portrays history in the favor of the Jews, either as victorious or as poor victims of abuse. The real history is way more nuanced.

However, I do believe that the Bible, because of its long history of compilation from various origins, contains a lot of of ethical questions, written in such a way that it makes it a great book for a summary of ancient philosophy that still has its relevance in todays modern high-technological world.
In that regard, the Bible cannot be dismissed. While some people might say that you could as well study the ancient philosophy from its real sources (ie. reading Plato's dialogues) instead of reading the Bible, you miss the moral of the story. The Bible has its strength from combining the various philosophies and stories into one great philosophical story, and this is probably what made people to regard the Bible as God-given, back then.

And this also applies to the New Testament, the story of Jesus. The New Testament is a compilation of many scriptures, carefully selected by Rome, and compiled into what we know as the New Testament. Many people make a big deal out of saying that we have various of other gospels, such as Gnostic texts portraying a very different view of Jesus.

But I don't think this changes the moral or conclusion of the story either.

I would go as far as say that wether or not Jesus died on the Cross or if he were taken down too early before he was dead (by people who believed him to be dead) and fled to India where he lived to be 80 years old, I don't think that changes anything in the story.It's a minor detail that has no significance. The significance of the story is what Jesus taught, even if he didn't live a real person and were merely a legendary figure to be placed amongst dragons, and flying unicorns.
The New Testament too has its various authors who had different social backgrounds. That itself makes the Bible nuanced in its storytelling.

It derives a lot of its stories from various other sources (which it doesn't mention, nor does the Old Testament mention that the story of Noah's Ark and the Flood had its origins in ancient Sumerian texts, which I believe is a shame, but it has probably to do with writing one storytelling, rather than the actual intention of writing a factual book as such).

The sources that the Bible relies on is first of all Greco-Roman in its origin. It is basically a summary of ancient Greek philosophy in one book.
The birth of Jesus has its origins from Asia (Persia and India). Virgin birth-stories were quite common.

In short, the New Testament derives not only from ancient meditarrenian region, but as far as India and perhaps even China.
Even when the Bible has been debunked into being a fake story, it is still true in its teachings.

The teachings of the Bible are still relevant today. However, one shouldn't read it as a factual book or understand the texts literally. Rather, people should learn the lessons of the stories, even if the stories are untrue (didn't happen that way).



Fnord
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27 Nov 2013, 6:09 pm

What is the numerical value - to fifteen decimal places - of the circumference of a circle to its diameter?

Please refer to 1st Kings 7:23 & 7:26, and 2nd Chronicles 4:2-5.

(BTW: This numerical value is named "Pi".)



DentArthurDent
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27 Nov 2013, 6:35 pm

The voracity or otherwise of the bible is extremely important to quote that great god devotte CS Lewis "I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”

Either the bible is written by god using human scribes and therefore he is somewhat crazed, incoherent and inaccurate ( something I have trouble attributing to an all knowing being) or it is not and therefore by definition, it is man made.

This is really important as the Judeo/Islamic/Christian god is used for all manner of evil and the idea that the bible contains the moral necessities for humanity has massive consequences for large swathes of humanity, especially for roughly 50% of the species ie women.

That bible stories were written over a long period of time and using different scribes does not excuse an all powerful, all seeing, all knowing god the alarming amount of inaccuracies and contradictions. How anyone can attribute this collection of stories to this supposed deity is beyond my comprehension. The sooner we come to the obvious conclusion that it is man made the sooner we can do away with the vitriolic morals it contains.


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27 Nov 2013, 6:43 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CshCI90Nfqc[/youtube] It cant if its on fire!


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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27 Nov 2013, 7:27 pm

One thing I wonder is whyyyyyy don't they ever add anything to it? Did the word of God just suddenly stop? No one is ever allowed to add any more word of God after 500 AD?



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27 Nov 2013, 7:29 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
In the past years, the Bible has been abused to mix it with various political agendas (really, it is nothing new, the Bible has always been abused politically), but also heavily criticized for being non-authentical.
In the recent years I have spend a lot of my time studying the Bible and the criticism of it.

.


Unless you have read the scriptures in Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine you have NOT studied the Bible. Most of the translations into English are far from good. Go to Isaiah 7:14 and read the translation. If you see the word "virgin" there commit it to the flames. It is an incorrect translation.

ruveyn



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27 Nov 2013, 8:30 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
One thing I wonder is whyyyyyy don't they ever add anything to it? Did the word of God just suddenly stop? No one is ever allowed to add any more word of God after 500 AD?
Yeah I have been wondering the same thing! Maybe they realized that they were wasting their time only for some gullible folks to pick it up and take it literally.


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27 Nov 2013, 9:37 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CshCI90Nfqc[/youtube] It cant if its on fire!


I wonder why there aren't any YouTubers burning the Koran?



DentArthurDent
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27 Nov 2013, 10:03 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Go to Isaiah 7:14 and read the translation. If you see the word "virgin" there commit it to the flames. It is an incorrect translation.

ruveyn


Indeed, from memory it should read "young woman". But this only serves to ask the question why did god only have his book written in Hebrew and Aramaic?, surely it's quite rational to assume that iff this book is so important that god sent angels to earth to help get it written then he should have had first edition versions made in all the languages of his facsimiles. Why allow the confusion of translation to muddy the understanding of his true word.


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thinkinginpictures
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28 Nov 2013, 3:41 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
That bible stories were written over a long period of time and using different scribes does not excuse an all powerful, all seeing, all knowing god the alarming amount of inaccuracies and contradictions. How anyone can attribute this collection of stories to this supposed deity is beyond my comprehension. The sooner we come to the obvious conclusion that it is man made the sooner we can do away with the vitriolic morals it contains.


Please read my topic again, I think you missed my point that the Bible is indeed man-made.



adifferentname
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28 Nov 2013, 4:19 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Go to Isaiah 7:14 and read the translation. If you see the word "virgin" there commit it to the flames. It is an incorrect translation.

ruveyn


Indeed, from memory it should read "young woman". But this only serves to ask the question why did god only have his book written in Hebrew and Aramaic?, surely it's quite rational to assume that iff this book is so important that god sent angels to earth to help get it written then he should have had first edition versions made in all the languages of his facsimiles. Why allow the confusion of translation to muddy the understanding of his true word.


Taking this a step further:

Assuming an omniscient god, why not have an English version of scripture written and sealed 2000 years ago and entrusted to a bloodline that he/she/it knew would keep it safe until modern times? Seems a tad imperfect to create it in a language you knew was going to die.

Upon verification of such a text, more people would be willing to believe in prescience at the very least.



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28 Nov 2013, 8:50 am

Religion is a trauma inflicted on the young children.
God is really the fear of others. Belief in God is fear of social attack.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVI4kzoZmy0[/youtube]



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Nov 2013, 10:14 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CshCI90Nfqc[/youtube] It cant if its on fire!


I wonder why there aren't any YouTubers burning the Koran?

Because they are afraid of terrorists's retaliation?



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Nov 2013, 11:06 am

Okay this is what's interesting about the KJV of the Bible. You have your old testament and your new testament. What I want is my own testament to be added and I should be allowed because if I could ask Jesus if it were alright, bet he would say yes. We should all have the right to be added to the Bible.



MCalavera
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28 Nov 2013, 11:47 am

Forget the Bible. It's history now.



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28 Nov 2013, 1:26 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Okay this is what's interesting about the KJV of the Bible. You have your old testament and your new testament. What I want is my own testament to be added and I should be allowed because if I could ask Jesus if it were alright, bet he would say yes. We should all have the right to be added to the Bible.



But A guy in New England in the 19th Century did just that.

He was Joseph Smith. He made up a whole third book ( a new new testament) called the "Book of Mormon".