Tropes vs Women in Video Games: Ms. Male Chararacter"

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Schneekugel
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13 Dec 2013, 4:30 am

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Secondly, I believe the argument that "women's perspectives are under-represented in games because women aren't involved in the creative process" is true, but I think there's a lot more to the story there. To say that "some jobs just don't appeal to women" is to be somewhat dismissive. There are definitely a ton of women who are artists, and there are a ton of women who are into video game art, and there are a ton of women who are into 3d/interactive art. So, it should follow that there would be a bunch of women who would want to be character modelers for video games - but we're not seeing that in reality. The same can be said for other areas of video game development - there are female writers creating stories, etc.
Actually tons of people simply let them scare of, by actual role prejudices. "I am a boy, so I must be doing this or that bad. - I am a girl, so I must be doing this or that bad." As you mention yourself, there are many females doing creative jobs, that require skills, that would as well fit for 3D-modelers. But many people simply have without an intention, this old prejudices in their head, and so enable themselves. You can compare it with the tons of guys, telling themselves, feeling clumsy and a a bit scared when using or doing stuff, that does not fit to the prejudice of their gender role. Like some boys that feel bad about using washing machine, but feeling without probs confident to fix their car motors, that are way more complicated. Just as there are tons of girls, that feel afraid of using normal electric handtools, because of that role prejudice telling them that they are bad at using them, while they have no prob with sitting down, reading the manual of an comparable complex and as well possible dangerous sewing machine, and then use it without probs.

For many older people, gaming industry is still related to weird, crazy nerds with pickles and superthick eyeglasses. But I would see it in relation to the generations. For the actual young generation, playing computer games, simply have become part of normal life. But because of them being between 14-25, there actually cant be now that many developers, simply because they will still be sitting in IT-school. ^^ When I was in engineer school 1995-2000, actually building classes already had about 20% females, while I think the whole IT-departement, had two girls. XD So its no whonder, that there are actually very few woman in the developers team of actual games. While when I look at the photos of actual classes, then you already see in most classes a few girls. About asian games, I dont have much hope. They simply still have such great different expectations on role and behavior, according to gender, that I think it will at least need 50 years. I simply stopped playing those games, because they often annoy me that much, with that nonsense.



Jono
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13 Dec 2013, 8:27 am

MCalavera wrote:
This is usually a trend in Japanese series, movies, and games when it comes to both male and female characters. Why is it distasteful when the person is a woman, particularly a so-called damsel in distress, that is being killed/sacrificed?


I would find it distasteful for either gender but it also depends on how it's done.



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13 Dec 2013, 8:35 am

Jacoby wrote:
Jono wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
His dismissal of her arguments was based on reasonable grounds, not on the fact that she (for example) doesn't have a penis. He came close to, but didn't quite make the point, that the only way to fulfil her criteria would be to draw all characters in exactly the same manner except for the addition of a prominent male member to distinguish males from females.


Why is there a need to distinguish gender at all then? Pac-Man did not have a gender until Ms Pac-Man was created, so why not just leave it as gender neutral?


How did Pac-Man not have a gender? The character's name is Pac-Man.


That doesn't necessarily indicate gender. Originally, it was simply an anglicised version of the Japanese name Pakuman.



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13 Dec 2013, 8:37 am

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
Jono wrote:
Why is there a need to distinguish gender at all then? Pac-Man did not have a gender until Ms Pac-Man was created, so why not just leave it as gender neutral?


Because studies showed that people of all genders preferred playing Ms. Pac-Man games over regular Pac-Man - even though it's basically exactly the same game.

Like you said in an earlier post, people want to identify with the characters that they play, and people would generally prefer playing games that expose the humanity of the protagonist, even if the character themselves isn't human.


That makes sense. Although, Pac-Man wasn't initially designed to have a sequel.



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13 Dec 2013, 10:47 am

Jono wrote:
That doesn't necessarily indicate gender. Originally, it was simply an anglicised version of the Japanese name Pakuman.


Paku Paku is a japanese term for munching, and originally the american game was to be called "puck-man" as a description of what the character looked like - it was changed to pac because the publishers were concerned about vandalism (changing the P to an F). Either way, the "man" part of the name is unambiguous.

Jono wrote:
That makes sense. Although, Pac-Man wasn't initially designed to have a sequel.


That is entirely irrelevant to the point.

Jono wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
This is usually a trend in Japanese series, movies, and games when it comes to both male and female characters. Why is it distasteful when the person is a woman, particularly a so-called damsel in distress, that is being killed/sacrificed?


I would find it distasteful for either gender but it also depends on how it's done.


Ok - but recognize that is your personal opinion, and has nothing to do with the games' classification as sexist or misogynist. It's simply a plot device that you don't care for.


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14 Dec 2013, 1:41 pm

This game company had the nerve to hire a woman as community manager for their indy game project:
http://www.dailydot.com/entertainment/m ... an-sexism/

Que sexist nerd outrage.............



sliqua-jcooter
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14 Dec 2013, 2:00 pm

This goes way beyond sexism, though. It's the Facebook problem: every time Facebook makes a change to their site, everyone protests and makes a huge deal about it - 6 months later, it's the highest used, most popular feature on the site.

At some point, you have to filter out the stupid and trust that you made the right decision.


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sephardic-male
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14 Dec 2013, 7:03 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
This game company had the nerve to hire a woman as community manager for their indy game project:
http://www.dailydot.com/entertainment/m ... an-sexism/

Que sexist nerd outrage.............


they are not outraged because she is a woman. they are angry because she never played mega man before. and she like anita scam artist is also a fraud


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15 Dec 2013, 7:43 pm

sephardic-male wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:
This game company had the nerve to hire a woman as community manager for their indy game project:
http://www.dailydot.com/entertainment/m ... an-sexism/

Que sexist nerd outrage.............


they are not outraged because she is a woman. they are angry because she never played mega man before. and she like anita scam artist is also a fraud

Boo f*****g hoo....... She's not even a developer. She made some genderbending fan art and expressed support for Sarkassian. That's all the evidence it took for her to suddenly become part of some vast feminist conspiracy to ruin videogames for men (as if the very thought of a female protagonist is bloodboiling to them.) There's nothing here to justify real anger.



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16 Dec 2013, 12:27 am

Geekonychus wrote:
There's nothing here to justify real anger.


Gamers as a group are well-known for getting really angry at the stupidest sh*t. Any time anything is announced, a group of gamers are outraged and calling for a boycott. I'm convinced that no one is capable of making a game that doesn't get "boycotted" for one reason or another.


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sephardic-male
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16 Dec 2013, 12:59 pm

kickstarter becoming a magnet for scam artists


http://www.dailydot.com/business/kickst ... ik-farhan/

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/c ... andal.html


Rather than vetting projects on its own, Kickstarter relies on its own users to report suspicious campaigns.
http://money.msn.com/investing/latest.a ... a2520e7f0+


http://www.gametrailers.com/side-missio ... ds-answers


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Jono
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16 Dec 2013, 3:47 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:
There's nothing here to justify real anger.


Gamers as a group are well-known for getting really angry at the stupidest sh*t. Any time anything is announced, a group of gamers are outraged and calling for a boycott. I'm convinced that no one is capable of making a game that doesn't get "boycotted" for one reason or another.


Gamers can be quite fanatical about their choice of medium. However, this type of phenomena is not just limited to gamers, consider how many Star Wars fans reacted to George Lucas' treatment of the Prequel Trilogy, for example.



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16 Dec 2013, 3:51 pm

sephardic-male wrote:
kickstarter becoming a magnet for scam artists


http://www.dailydot.com/business/kickst ... ik-farhan/

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/c ... andal.html


Rather than vetting projects on its own, Kickstarter relies on its own users to report suspicious campaigns.
http://money.msn.com/investing/latest.a ... a2520e7f0+


http://www.gametrailers.com/side-missio ... ds-answers


So? Just because there are some scammers on Kickstarter, it does not follow that any specific project on Kickstarter is scam. That includes Anita Sarkeesian's "Tropes vs Women in Video Games" as well as the Mega Man project. There is no proof that either of these 2 projects are scams.



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16 Dec 2013, 7:00 pm

Just because you do not approve of a project, does not mean that it's a scam. Anita Sarkeesian only asked for 6,000 USD, but like everyone else, she also needs to pay rent, she needs to pay for the games she play, she needs to pay for video editing software and she needs to cover travel expenses, given that she also does spoken words and holds guest lectures.

In any case, there are plenty of game and comic related pictures on her Flickr page from long before she started her Kickstarter campaign.



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16 Dec 2013, 7:57 pm

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Just because you do not approve of a project, does not mean that it's a scam. Anita Sarkeesian only asked for 6,000 USD, but like everyone else, she also needs to pay rent, she needs to pay for the games she play, she needs to pay for video editing software and she needs to cover travel expenses, given that she also does spoken words and holds guest lectures.



she should get a job like everybody else if she has to pay rent and living expenses. she is clearly able bodied, and have no signs of disabilities. she does not play video games she steal the footages from youtube gamers then upload them. also in a past lecture she said she is not a gamer. she doesn't need $165K to make youtube videos using video editing software many of which are freeware and are part of windows and OS mac. she is no different from tv peachers using their sheep for money. she/fem freq is not a registered charity she has no business asking for donations.


Image




Anita the hypocrite
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONuIvX21VYU


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16 Dec 2013, 8:32 pm

sephardic-male wrote:
she should get a job like everybody else if she has to pay rent and living expenses. she is clearly able bodied, and have no signs of disabilities.


If people want to pay her to give her the ability to make videos full-time, I don't have a problem with that. That essentially *becomes* her full time job. No one is being forced to give her money - she's not taking federal grants to make her videos - people are giving money to her of their own free will - ostensibly because they find value in what she does and want her to continue.

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she does not play video games she steal the footages from youtube gamers then upload them.


The two aren't mutually exclusive. You can play video games and also use footage from other youtube videos.

Quote:
she doesn't need $165K to make youtube videos using video editing software many of which are freeware and are part of windows and OS mac.


She never said she did. She said she needed 6k, and people gave her far more than that because they saw value in what she wanted to do. Unless you were one of those people and feel like she's not living up to what she said she would do, I don't care what you think. Be jealous all you want.

Quote:
she/fem freq is not a registered charity she has no business asking for donations.


501(c)(3) charitable organizations are a tax structure meant to shield charities and the people that donate to charities from federal tax burdens. It's not a pre-requisite to operating a charity. And accepting donations does not, in and of itself, mean that you are running a charitable organization.

In summary, you're hating someone because they're successful doing something you don't agree with. Grow up, or go call the whaaaambulance.


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