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iamnotaparakeet
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08 Dec 2013, 2:25 am

TallyMan wrote:
I'm almost a vegetarian... Nowadays I make it a point to only eat herbivores.


Oy, just oy, TallyMan.



iamnotaparakeet
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08 Dec 2013, 2:33 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
Ps might I suggest you start a veganism thread before this "hi I am back" turns into one. You never know you might find an unlikely ally :wink:


I had a veganism thread here, the youtube clip from the documentary From Farm To Fridge having been removed because it violated the TOS by showing violence that is done to animals at factory farms. It's like one meme said, regarding the ag-gag laws, showing a picture inside a factory farm, 'they want this to end - not the violence, the evidence of violence' or something like that.

I don't mind you being an ally on subjects we agree on. I do know many churchians who pretend to eschew everything not produced by Christians and such nonsense of that type, but that's just silly. If this thread turns into a veganism thing, I don't mind. This is an Aspie forum, tangents happen.



iamnotaparakeet
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08 Dec 2013, 2:36 am

LKL wrote:
Fwiw, those male chicks probably lose consciousness more quickly (i.e., suffer less) than a broiler or a Thanksgiving turkey getting its head chopped off. Accepting the need for animal products almost inevitably means accepting at least a small amount of animal suffering; even Temple Grandin does not ask for 'perfection' in her animal handling designs.


Nutrition wise, there is no need though. There is economic demand however, based on tastes and people thinking that the need for animal flesh is real while vegans and other vegetarians disprove that by both surviving and thriving without such input.



91
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08 Dec 2013, 2:52 am

Welcome back. Feel free to stick around in Australia. Heading back to America next year myself.


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iamnotaparakeet
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08 Dec 2013, 3:02 am

91 wrote:
Welcome back. Feel free to stick around in Australia. Heading back to America next year myself.


Thanks. Why is it that you and LKL think that I've gone to Australia? I'd love to go there, visit or move there, but I live in the USA and the closest I;ve been to borders is Galveston, Texas and Mille Lacs, Minnesota. I wish I could travel more, but will bills and everything I can't



91
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08 Dec 2013, 3:21 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
91 wrote:
Welcome back. Feel free to stick around in Australia. Heading back to America next year myself.


Thanks. Why is it that you and LKL think that I've gone to Australia? I'd love to go there, visit or move there, but I live in the USA and the closest I;ve been to borders is Galveston, Texas and Mille Lacs, Minnesota. I wish I could travel more, but will bills and everything I can't


No idea, guess I just misread the thread. You really ought to travel. Even if you just cross the border and collect the stamps on your passport. That being said, there is still so much in the US that I want to see. I have done California on the west coast and from Virginia to Canada on the east. Still lots to see.


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08 Dec 2013, 3:56 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
91 wrote:
Welcome back. Feel free to stick around in Australia. Heading back to America next year myself.


Thanks. Why is it that you and LKL think that I've gone to Australia? I'd love to go there, visit or move there, but I live in the USA and the closest I;ve been to borders is Galveston, Texas and Mille Lacs, Minnesota. I wish I could travel more, but will bills and everything I can't

Wasn't it you who said that you were going to move to Australia if Obama won again? Maybe I'm misremembering.

Wrt. nutrition, for humans you're mostly correct; we can get by pretty well without animal flesh. I have to take multivitamins or I get pica, but that's not too high of a price. Unfortunately, many of us have pets who are obligate omnivores (dogs) or even obligate carnivores (cats), and to feed them, some death is required.



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08 Dec 2013, 10:08 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
^^^Ever see the inside of a Tyson's chicken house?Thats not much of a life.
If I had to be born as a broiler,I'd rather not be.
Free range if you have to eat meat is the most humane.


Free range is just a larger cage, no range, and either way they're still sentenced to death without committing any capital crimes.

In some cases it's a bogus claim.But there are lots of free range beef cows here.I keep a small flock of Japanese Bantams for eggs,I could never kill one even though I have surplus roosters.But if I did not have them in a run the coyotes and other wild animals would eat them.I give them weeds from the garden and scraps from the kitchen.
We all wind up on the food chain eventually.Food for worms.


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iamnotaparakeet
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09 Dec 2013, 4:32 am

91 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
91 wrote:
Welcome back. Feel free to stick around in Australia. Heading back to America next year myself.


Thanks. Why is it that you and LKL think that I've gone to Australia? I'd love to go there, visit or move there, but I live in the USA and the closest I;ve been to borders is Galveston, Texas and Mille Lacs, Minnesota. I wish I could travel more, but will bills and everything I can't


No idea, guess I just misread the thread. You really ought to travel. Even if you just cross the border and collect the stamps on your passport. That being said, there is still so much in the US that I want to see. I have done California on the west coast and from Virginia to Canada on the east. Still lots to see.


As of this January, I'll have two days vacation time, and next July another 4 days vacation time. I'm making a fair bit more as an assembler and have more consistent hours than I did working retail or fast food, but such schedules are constricting on travel. Really, I'd like to sail the oceans and see the world as many of the great explorers of the 1500's and so on did, using an octant and trigonometry to determine longitude and latitude. I much rather live on Mars and be an actual pioneer there than just retrace the steps of cool people of the past though. Right now though, I have bills and bills and bills and bills, and stupid student loans to repay, and did I mention bills? Life isn't so terrible, but it's annoying to have so many things that help you to worry if you let them.



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09 Dec 2013, 4:44 am

LKL wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
91 wrote:
Welcome back. Feel free to stick around in Australia. Heading back to America next year myself.


Thanks. Why is it that you and LKL think that I've gone to Australia? I'd love to go there, visit or move there, but I live in the USA and the closest I;ve been to borders is Galveston, Texas and Mille Lacs, Minnesota. I wish I could travel more, but will bills and everything I can't

Wasn't it you who said that you were going to move to Australia if Obama won again? Maybe I'm misremembering.

Wrt. nutrition, for humans you're mostly correct; we can get by pretty well without animal flesh. I have to take multivitamins or I get pica, but that's not too high of a price. Unfortunately, many of us have pets who are obligate omnivores (dogs) or even obligate carnivores (cats), and to feed them, some death is required.


I think I might have said that actually. I was broke and working for Walgreen's then. He'll be out of office eventually, I just hope the damage he does to the USA is minimized and at least he gets to take the blame for his stupid health care program rather than letting it's repercussions fall upon another. Whatever though, I'm getting sick of politics - especially since most republicans now might as well run as democrats more accurately anyway.

There are vegan foods for dogs and cats, as well as some recipe stuffs like this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V76UAL7PgJA[/youtube]



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09 Dec 2013, 4:57 am

Misslizard wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
^^^Ever see the inside of a Tyson's chicken house?Thats not much of a life.
If I had to be born as a broiler,I'd rather not be.
Free range if you have to eat meat is the most humane.


Free range is just a larger cage, no range, and either way they're still sentenced to death without committing any capital crimes.

In some cases it's a bogus claim.But there are lots of free range beef cows here.I keep a small flock of Japanese Bantams for eggs,I could never kill one even though I have surplus roosters.But if I did not have them in a run the coyotes and other wild animals would eat them.I give them weeds from the garden and scraps from the kitchen.
We all wind up on the food chain eventually.Food for worms.


Private farmers like you can do things right, or at least better than factory farms, and it's cool that you don't kill the chickens. If industrial factory farms didn't have it so that supporting dairy is supporting veal and supporting eggs is supporting the horrendous killing of baby roosters, I would have only the issue of the conditions for milk cows and egg laying hens to be concerned with which could be done in a way that doesn't suck for the creatures who are often treated like machines instead of being treated as the living beings with minds and the ability to feel pain and emotions which they are..

While wild animals are difficult to stop, it's not impossible to do so. I would understand using deadly force to protect one's friends from someone who wants to kill and eat them, but if non-lethal methods are possible to employ that's even better. Even though they may do whatever, they are not a moral compass. If anything, animals should be able to look up to us and not out of fear and dread but instead out of friendship and respect.

Yes, eventually we'll all die, but the actions of saprophytic worms are not quite comparable to that of those who harvest other animals for food, but instead just happen upon already dead bodies on or under the ground. They don't kill or pay others to kill for them.



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09 Dec 2013, 12:53 pm

It's not that hard to keep a goat for milk but there is always the problem of surplus male animals.But with goats many people like to have them to clear fields of sprouts,so you can find homes for the male animals.At one time when people used castrated male calves as draft animals they had a chance to live.Hatcheries also dispose of surplus rooster chicks.I don't like commercial farms because of the cruelty, they wreck the environment,and the meat produced is not healthy food.My brother in law raised broilers,he would not eat chicken ever,they used to feed the chickens small amounts of arsenic to make them thirsty so they would weigh more.For his families personal food he raised grass feed beef.
I don't believe it is right to profit from suffering,but many people are not going to give up meat.If meat has to be consumed it should be raised responsibly,with the least amount of trauma to the animal.People also eat to much meat,you only need a piece the size of a deck of playing cards.If people would just reduce the amount they eat that would also help.


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09 Dec 2013, 6:05 pm

LKL wrote:
Wasn't it you who said that you were going to move to Australia if Obama won again? Maybe I'm misremembering.


That was our old buddy Ragtime. He's probably hopping around the outback with the kangaroos as we speak.



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09 Dec 2013, 8:16 pm

Welcome back, Parakeet!


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09 Dec 2013, 8:30 pm

Welcome back, 'Keet.



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09 Dec 2013, 10:47 pm

Glad to see you back, 'keet.

Glad the veg lifestyle is working for you. I completed a 40 day water fast earlier this year and lost in the neighborhood of some 70 pounds or so. I've gone more of a flexitarian route. I'm afraid I just can't see animal cruelty as sufficient to justify eliminating meat entirely, nor can I see it as anything more than an emotional issue and unconvincing to give up meat entirely. For me, vegetarianism is an ideal, but not one I feel I can ever be consistent with.

That said, MAYBE I eat meat two days out of a week at most. It seems to me portion sizes are larger when meat, especially red meat, are on the menu. Indeed, I've gained back about 15 pounds since March. That most wonderful time of the year is upon us [/sarc] and I'm counting my blessings that Thanksgiving didn't put me back over 170. And while I do restrict my meat intake to one day a week or less, I also fast consistently once a week, and sometimes twice. The best part is not feeling like I'm a slave to whatever fad diet is out there, or that I'm a slave to any kind of diet at all. I feel like I don't even really need food all that much, and it has been liberating.

The only thing I somewhat regret at the moment is my reversion to some old habits I would have enjoyed doing without. I drink coffee pretty much on a daily basis and sneak a diet soda every now and then. I've been under a tremendous amount of stress lately, hence my compensatory consumption of caffeine. Maybe after this week I can cut out coffee and soda and reduce my sodium intake, hopefully feel a little bit better, too!