what is borderline personality disorder

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billiscool
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12 Dec 2013, 12:33 am

when I look up asperger,bpd often comes up
How is it related to Asperger? is it a subgroup of ASD.
is it a milder form of asperger.



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12 Dec 2013, 12:42 am

It is not related as far as I know to AS. My brother has it. It is a personality disorder listed in the DMS. People with it do tend to be anti-social and not fit in with society, but for different reasons.


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12 Dec 2013, 1:02 am

my sister has Severe BPD, its a personality disorder thats borderline to a phschyopath. they basically just hate themselves a great deal and think everyone is out to get them and dwell on perfection.


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billiscool
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12 Dec 2013, 1:08 am

ZombieBrideXD wrote:
my sister has Severe BPD, its a personality disorder thats borderline to a phschyopath. they basically just hate themselves a great deal and think everyone is out to get them and dwell on perfection.


but how come bpd and asperger often get mistaken for each other.
how do you know if you have asperger or bpd?



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12 Dec 2013, 1:15 am

There is no particular relation between an ASD and BPD.

An ASD is a neurodevelopmental disorder, primarily characterized by social deficits/difficulties, sensory processing issues/difficulties, and strong/narrow interests. I realize this is a very simple, basic characterization of autism/Asperger's, but it will suffice for what follows.

BPD is a personality disorder (up to the DSM IV; in the DSM V, the criteria have all changed) primarily characterized by a morbid fear of abandonment, very impulsive behavior (e.g.: drugs, sex, impulse buying), unstable sense of self (up to suicidal ideation), unstable and short-lived relations with others, and black-and-white thinking about people and situations. People with BPD often have multiple psychiatric hospitalizations and ER visits for cutting, drug overdoses, or suicide attempts.

Because the mental health community is not particularly knowledgeable about BPD or ASDs in general, some people, particularly adolescent women, are often misdiagnosed. The same happens with eating disorders and Asperger's in teenage girls. A girl presenting with fairly typical traits of AS will nonetheless first be considered, and even diagnosed with an eating disorder. Also, BPD is sometimes used as a "garbage bag diagnosis," that is to say it will be given to a very deeply troubled person who does not fit any of the other personality disorders, and this happens more often with women than with men.

There is little evidence at present to suggest an overlap between BPD and ASDs in terms of genetics, epigenetics, or early life experiences. It is a subject of debate amongst the mental health professionals I've asked if BPD and an ASD can co-occur. Although BPD has the highest level of comorbidities among all personality disorders, the common comorbidities include panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, major affective depression, and personality disorders such as histrionic personality disorder (ASDs are not typically found on such lists).

Further, the most effective treatment for BPD at present is dialectical behavior therapy (DBT), along with medication to control symptoms. DBT is not regarded as useful for people with an ASD as far as I've heard or read from people in the field.

So BPD is in general unrelated to AS or ASDs. It is not a subgroup or a mild form of Asperger's. Instead it is a separate clinical entity with its own natural history and treatment modalities.



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12 Dec 2013, 1:38 am

What they have in common is black-and-white thinking.


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12 Dec 2013, 2:11 am

I was going to say this. Then you said it for me. :)
Yes, they are unrelated.

Aoi wrote:
There is no particular relation between an ASD and BPD.

An ASD is a neurodevelopmental disorder, primarily characterized by social deficits/difficulties, sensory processing issues/difficulties, and strong/narrow interests. I realize this is a very simple, basic characterization of autism/Asperger's, but it will suffice for what follows.

BPD is a personality disorder (up to the DSM IV; in the DSM V, the criteria have all changed) primarily characterized by a morbid fear of abandonment, very impulsive behavior (e.g.: drugs, sex, impulse buying), unstable sense of self (up to suicidal ideation), unstable and short-lived relations with others, and black-and-white thinking about people and situations. People with BPD often have multiple psychiatric hospitalizations and ER visits for cutting, drug overdoses, or suicide attempts.

Because the mental health community is not particularly knowledgeable about BPD or ASDs in general, some people, particularly adolescent women, are often misdiagnosed. The same happens with eating disorders and Asperger's in teenage girls. A girl presenting with fairly typical traits of AS will nonetheless first be considered, and even diagnosed with an eating disorder. Also, BPD is sometimes used as a "garbage bag diagnosis," that is to say it will be given to a very deeply troubled person who does not fit any of the other personality disorders, and this happens more often with women than with men.

There is little evidence at present to suggest an overlap between BPD and ASDs in terms of genetics, epigenetics, or early life experiences. It is a subject of debate amongst the mental health professionals I've asked if BPD and an ASD can co-occur. Although BPD has the highest level of comorbidities among all personality disorders, the common comorbidities include panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, major affective depression, and personality disorders such as histrionic personality disorder (ASDs are not typically found on such lists).

Further, the most effective treatment for BPD at present is dialectical behavior therapy (DBT), along with medication to control symptoms. DBT is not regarded as useful for people with an ASD as far as I've heard or read from people in the field.

So BPD is in general unrelated to AS or ASDs. It is not a subgroup or a mild form of Asperger's. Instead it is a separate clinical entity with its own natural history and treatment modalities.


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12 Dec 2013, 4:25 am

I was diagnosed with BPD in the early 90's and in the UK it is a pretty crappy DX to be handed. The prevailing professional opinion was that there was nothing that could be done as it was "untreatable". This led to me being labelled a 'Psycho' as they assumed I was on a knifedge and would fly into a violent frenzy at any time. This wasn't the case, but I felt isolated and unable to understand the world I lived in, yet had to carry on through the frustration. It made me question whether it was worth living on a number of occasions. (another BPD criteria) The anger that stemmed from these various frustrations was interpreted as a prime example of BPD triggered by PTSD. I didn't think they were correct, and said as much, but they said that refusal to accept a diagnosis and constant challenging Doctors or authority in general was a typical response of somebody with BPD. Checkmate!

It is only years later I was able to get my proper DX and my current psychotherapist said that it was common for people of my age to be given incorrect DX's then - especially as some of the comorbid conditions that can accompany Asperger's can be similar to BPD. It was a lazy and convenient DX at the time - instigated by an employer who wanted shut of me and my "disruptive ways" - but ultimately an incorrect one. That cost me a lot in terms of employment, support and distress.

They are by no means the same thing, but if you are unfortunate enough not to be seen by a professional who doesn't take enough time or care to listen then it can be easy for them to push you into an ill fitting pigeonhole. I am much more comfortable with my AS label as I think this is finally the correct one.


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12 Dec 2013, 4:44 am

AS is frequently dx´ed as borderline, bipolar and schizophrenia because of traits and behaviors, that superficially reminds about those. To complicate the picture further, AS is often accompanied by the typical comorbids, ADHD and Tourette, - and vice versa.
Unless the professional is specifically trained/has solid specific knowledge in this area, it is SO easy to mix up the signals and give a wrong dx, - sometimes to great misfortune for the dx´ed.


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12 Dec 2013, 6:45 am

Davvo7 wrote:
I was diagnosed with BPD in the early 90's and in the UK it is a pretty crappy DX to be handed. The prevailing professional opinion was that there was nothing that could be done as it was "untreatable". This led to me being labelled a 'Psycho' as they assumed I was on a knifedge and would fly into a violent frenzy at any time. This wasn't the case, but I felt isolated and unable to understand the world I lived in, yet had to carry on through the frustration. It made me question whether it was worth living on a number of occasions. (another BPD criteria) The anger that stemmed from these various frustrations was interpreted as a prime example of BPD triggered by PTSD. I didn't think they were correct, and said as much, but they said that refusal to accept a diagnosis and constant challenging Doctors or authority in general was a typical response of somebody with BPD. Checkmate!

It is only years later I was able to get my proper DX and my current psychotherapist said that it was common for people of my age to be given incorrect DX's then - especially as some of the comorbid conditions that can accompany Asperger's can be similar to BPD. It was a lazy and convenient DX at the time - instigated by an employer who wanted shut of me and my "disruptive ways" - but ultimately an incorrect one. That cost me a lot in terms of employment, support and distress.

They are by no means the same thing, but if you are unfortunate enough not to be seen by a professional who doesn't take enough time or care to listen then it can be easy for them to push you into an ill fitting pigeonhole. I am much more comfortable with my AS label as I think this is finally the correct one.


Not diagnosed with BPD. Not diagnosed with ASD either. Diagnosed with Social anxiety and depression but feel your frustration anyway. If I argue with people over my diagnosis I get the you are just in denial type thing as well. Even though I have been proven to be correct about other things in the past (ie some chronic headaches that were diagnosed as anxiety headaches turned out to be a chronic sinus infection. I told them for 2 years the headaches were not anxiety. I also tried to tell people my physical CFS type symptoms, migraine and IBS were not depression and anxiety related...which they are not as they have gone away despite my mood being low and if they do come are related more to what I eat than anything else).

But still people won't listen so I end up stuck, given the wrong treatments and am not given any beneficial help other than disability benefits. I am left to struggle with my social difficulties alone and am treated as though I am deliberately socially difficult when that is not the case. i merely did not know I was doing anything that was so wrong I deserve to be treated like I am someone with the plague.

The more upset and distressed I get, the more often I yell at myself and hit myself on the head, the more I am treated like a lunatic by society, the more depressed I get. The more depressed I get the more upset and distressed I get, the more distressed...and so and so forth.

Stuck in a vicious cycle I can't get out of.

PN I have never been in a psychiatric unit thank fully. I am usually too reasonable and well spoken when I am in the psychiatrists office and have never been considered to be psychotic or dangerous enough to warrant in house treatment so to speak. Just seen as emotionally unstable in regards to my ability to cope with stressers I think.

I have had suicide attempts but not for many years and only at times when something horrifically stressful has happened combined with the wrong time of the month (ie someone has just died, as a result of years of bullying, the use of mind altering chemicals such as alcohol). My suicide attempts or suicidal thoughts do not appear for no reason or just because my mood is low. It usually involves some or all of the above. I have a genuine impulse to want to kill myself and am doing my best not to given the surge of extreme emotional pain I am feeling.

why would I want to threaten to kill myself for attention when I could go to college and get lots of pats on the back for getting fabulous grades. People thinking you are extremely intelligent is far nicer than them thinking you are a nut case. I simply don't need the attention I would get from threatening suicide...it is destructive not beneficial and is NOT the type of attention I would want anyway. This it is attention seeking bull I keep hearing is ridiculous. Why would anyone want that kind of attention? Do you like being in hospitals with nutty people who hear things and hate themselves or something?

I also hate pity...I am in pain, not pitiful. There is a vast difference.

Personally I prefer my independence...hence why I try to keep it controlled as much as I am able. If I threaten suicide it is because I am in great pain and am in need of some understanding. Visiting the nut ward where they treat you inhumanely is only going to make things worse and cause my pain to amplify. As does people thinking I just want attention.

I mostly stick to writing my feelings and thoughts down these days rather than acting on the. Writing allows me expression in a way that speaking does not. I am not able to formulate my replies quickly enough when speaking for example so my self expression is very poor when in the spoken word. It can also be misinterpreted in the written word as well but that depends on who is doing the reading and happens to anyone who writes something down.

We live in a world where reading comprehension is not only poor and much of the population is illiterate but where subjectivity rules to the extent that people only see and hear what they want to see basically.

For this reason I feel it would be best for me if I mostly just stayed away from interacting with the world as much as possible. And when I say world I mean other humans, not the planet. I love the planet and go out and about to interact with her as much as possible.

The planet has not done anything to hurt me and does not treat me like s**t. With the occasional exception (whom I shall welcome into my world should they want to enter) most humans have treated me extremely poorly. Not something that will EVER earn them my respect. They lost my respect a long time ago.



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12 Dec 2013, 8:35 am

They're not related or alike at all. The only thing they have in common is both may have trouble with understanding and regulating emotions but even this manafests very differently.



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12 Dec 2013, 8:48 am

You're wrong.



ZombieBrideXD
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12 Dec 2013, 2:03 pm

billiscool wrote:
ZombieBrideXD wrote:
my sister has Severe BPD, its a personality disorder thats borderline to a phschyopath. they basically just hate themselves a great deal and think everyone is out to get them and dwell on perfection.


but how come bpd and asperger often get mistaken for each other.
how do you know if you have asperger or bpd?


my sister and i share traits, she cant read facial expressions because she thinks everyone is angry at her, shell push people away which will make herself alone, and she has meltdowns because of her own thoughts and dwell on perfection. I have HFA but between the two of us, if you had just met us, you couldn't tell the difference, but once you get to know us, you can see shes very angry, explosive and judgemental while i am aloof and prefer to be alone.


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12 Dec 2013, 3:44 pm

When I saw Girl Interrupted I almost thought I had it. But symptoms overlap and I trust an expert than my own opinion. Hence the reason why I don't believe in self diagnoses. So many symptoms overlap and it can be hard to distinguish. Like how do you know if you have anxiety rather than just being a b***h and want things your way or how do you know you don't like change because of predictability or because of something else. Even I am not sure sure about my own symptoms like if they are anxiety or because I am hungry or just having a bad day or whatever. Only an expert would know like a psychiatrist and I haven't been to one since 6th grade. I know everyone acts worse on their bad days and when they are hungry as do ASD people but it's very hard for me to tell the difference. How do you even know if something is lack of TOM or just selfishness, how do you know that about yourself?

I can remember telling my mom my concern about BPD after seeing the movie and she said it was Asperger's when I was tested and saw a psychiatrist and to talk to my shrink about it. I think she said this to me because she didn't want to deal with it and he would be able to explain better since he was the doctor. But I got over it before I brought it up in the office because I discarded the label. I think I may have looked more into it and decided I was being paranoid. If I have never been diagnosed with it, chances were I didn't even have it even though not being labeled with something doesn't mean you don't have it. Sometimes doctors keep missing what the real problem is so the patient keeps getting misdiagnosed and sometimes they know the label doesn't fit if they are honest with themselves or know themselves that well because it doesn't explain everything. Sometimes it's just a small problem they have like for me OCD was part of my problem and ADD and dyspraxia and sensory processing disorder but I still wasn't getting the help I needed and my school knew I had bad social skills and inappropriate behavior and emotions but there was no explanation for it. They also thought I had a behavior problem instead of looking at what was causing the behavior.


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12 Dec 2013, 6:26 pm

I'm guessing the two disabilties have some overlapping symptoms. But BPD is a more severe disability than AS.



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12 Dec 2013, 8:10 pm

so,how come people who diagnosis people,can't tell
the difference between asd,bpd,bipolar.

it's stupid,if you have a career in diagnosis people,shouldn't
you know what each conditions look like.

do these doctors have a dartboard with different disability
names on it.everytime someone new comes in,they throw
the dart,and see where it land.
''oh,look the dart landed on bpd,yep that what he has''