Some certain vaccines do cause brain injury: Study.

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16 Dec 2013, 6:21 am

http://fedgeno.com/documents/delayed-ne ... erosal.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2571213

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3264864/

You say that it's impossible for vaccines to be the cause (or one of the causes) for autism, yet some studies have showed that they can cause neurotoxin brain injuries.

But what if Autism can be a manifestation caused by brain injury?

AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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16 Dec 2013, 10:41 am

To me, we're kind of chasing a rabbit hole with the whole thimerosal hypothesis, and I'd really question how good that first source is.

I think a straightup autoimmune reaction to the vaccine is a lot more likely.

And we can Guillain-Barre Syndrome as a model. It's something that's reasonably well known about, and it can be caused either by an infection or a vaccine. And relatively rare in both cases.

The_Walrus
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16 Dec 2013, 10:55 am

Your second link does not appear to be to a study, but rather a peer-reviewed comment on a controversy from 1989.

Reading the abstract, it actually says

Quote:

The cornerstone of the claim that pertussis vaccine can cause permanent brain damage has always been the apparent clustering of onset of neurological disorders within the first 24-48 h after vaccination. One of the main finds of the NCES, however, which was not divulged in any published report but emerged in the course of the hearing, was that permanent brain damage did not occur within 48 h of DTP vaccination in any child in England, Scotland and Wales from mid-1976 to mid-1979 when 2 million doses of vaccine were used. The NCES, in this respect, completely undermined the evidence provided by various published case series.

In other words, that vaccination do not cause brain damage.

Your first link is to an article that was ultimately never published, but does not appear to have been retracted either... curious.

In any case, rodents and primates don't get autism. Something which causes "autism like behaviours" in an animal isn't very useful.

The weight of evidence is that vaccines don't cause autism. Vaccinated children are not more likely to have autism than unvaccinated children.

The_Walrus
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16 Dec 2013, 11:02 am

While I'm here, posting a link to one or two very different studies isn't very useful. There are one-off studies that show all kinds of crazy things. There is one high-profile study that shows that humans can predict the future, for example.

It is much more useful to rely on meta-analysis and systematic reviews. And guess what? Those show autism isn't caused by vaccinations.

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16 Dec 2013, 11:56 am

The_Walrus wrote:

In any case, rodents and primates don't get autism.

How on earth could anyone say with any degree of certainty whether a hamster had autism or not?

Adamantium
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16 Dec 2013, 1:09 pm

doofy wrote:

The_Walrus wrote:

In any case, rodents and primates don't get autism.

How on earth could anyone say with any degree of certainty whether a hamster had autism or not?

I think it is fairly certain that these hamsters are not autistic:

doofy
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16 Dec 2013, 1:19 pm

Adamantium wrote:

I think it is fairly certain that these hamsters are not autistic:

Their special interest might be post apocalyptic hip-hop...

The_Walrus
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16 Dec 2013, 1:24 pm

doofy wrote:

The_Walrus wrote:

In any case, rodents and primates don't get autism.

How on earth could anyone say with any degree of certainty whether a hamster had autism or not?

Well, quite, that's a big reason why these studies are all but useless.

Essentially, the big difference between humans and hamsters is our brain. Autism is a neurological condition. Given that human brains and hamster brains are so very different, it makes little sense to say that any "similar" ways we behave must be due to "similar" neurology- particularly as we don't understand human neurology very well yet!

Callista
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16 Dec 2013, 1:32 pm

The diseases we vaccinate against cause brain injury, too. And they are KNOWN to cause brain injury, at a much, much higher rate than the vaccines. Ever heard of measles encephalitis or congenital rubella syndrome? Not a pretty picture.

No, vaccines aren't absolutely safe. But they're a heck of a lot safer than epidemics of the diseases they're meant to prevent.

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Silas
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16 Dec 2013, 1:55 pm

I have two boys: one with Asperger's and the other with PDD-NOS (both on the spectrum).

The father-in-law has Asperger's, my brother-in-law is Aspie (and had a lot of problems because he didn't get any kind of special attention or treatment), my father exhibits some traits, and I myself, also have some traits (obsessive interests, hand-flapping, problems when I was young).

It is hereditary. Vaccines did not "cause" any of this. It is on BOTH sides of my family. The ones with the more Aspie-like traits are also the most intelligent (oldest son exhibits genius--feats of memory, like memorizing every English monarch from Alfred to Elizabeth II, their birthdates, deaths, years of power, events in their lives, etc.).

When you hear hoofbeats, do not think of Zebras. The vaccination hypothesis has been debunked.

AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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16 Dec 2013, 7:47 pm

Perhaps what is inherited is a vulnerability to autoimmune conditions.

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