Jesus Was Liberal, Sadducees and Pharisees, Conservatives

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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25 Dec 2013, 6:23 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Jesus would want governments to care for the poor, the way His ministry did. That is what He was all about. He wanted to help the ones who were thrown under a bus by society. It was one of the main things He did. If you deny this, you are really missing the point of Christianity and what made Him truly different than the others. Keep in mind, back then, zero separation between religion and the state so Jesus would have no concept of such an idea. In fact, Jesus would probably want to see government and Church fused together with the governments spending a lot of money on people, judging from His ministry, if you are to believe what the Gospels say. I focus more on these books than the books written later because these were created by people other than Jesus attempting to mold the church in their image.


Maybe Jesus did, but then you are advocating that the USA should become a Christian THEOCRACY. We are a REPUBLIC with limited government and the cause of the poor IS NOT the job of government.

One of the laughable issues I have with liberals who say, "It's what Jesus would do" is the way they miss the fact that (1) we don't live in a system of government where the state must conform to religious rules and (2) to do what Jesus would want us to do would require we do EVERYTHING the way Jesus said we should do it.

That's what The Right wants anyway so if that's going to be the case they had better go all the way instead of just insisting on their version. In other words, this country would be quite socialistic. Abolish the death penalty and no one should have any problem with people having loads of kids that the state helps support because Jesus advocated marriage and children while taking care of the poor.



Kraichgauer
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25 Dec 2013, 7:31 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Jesus would want governments to care for the poor, the way His ministry did. That is what He was all about. He wanted to help the ones who were thrown under a bus by society. It was one of the main things He did. If you deny this, you are really missing the point of Christianity and what made Him truly different than the others. Keep in mind, back then, zero separation between religion and the state so Jesus would have no concept of such an idea. In fact, Jesus would probably want to see government and Church fused together with the governments spending a lot of money on people, judging from His ministry, if you are to believe what the Gospels say. I focus more on these books than the books written later because these were created by people other than Jesus attempting to mold the church in their image.


Maybe Jesus did, but then you are advocating that the USA should become a Christian THEOCRACY. We are a REPUBLIC with limited government and the cause of the poor IS NOT the job of government.

One of the laughable issues I have with liberals who say, "It's what Jesus would do" is the way they miss the fact that (1) we don't live in a system of government where the state must conform to religious rules and (2) to do what Jesus would want us to do would require we do EVERYTHING the way Jesus said we should do it.


And yet it's your conservative friends who are always saying we're a Christian nation that has to live up to Christian morality - when they bash gay rights, promote prayer in school, or deny separation of church and state. Yet when it comes to caring for the poor, which Christ had actually called for, you conservatives accuse us of promoting a theocracy.


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25 Dec 2013, 7:40 pm

I think it is a little more complex than that. Conservatives champion the ancient traditional family values which is marriage between one man and one woman as the answer to all our economic problems with poor children. Liberals may tolerate the destruction of the family with a meager subsistence for orphaned bastard children from the government.

The true answer is that the traditional family values is just a shadow of the big family that we will become. Once marriage becomes obsolete we will become like the angels who neither marry nor are given in marriage and we will truly become one big family. This scares conservatives because it resembles communism and it scares liberals because children will receive infinitely more than a minimum subsistence.



MCalavera
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25 Dec 2013, 8:09 pm

aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I don't personally find narcissism to be beautiful.


I do not know who you are addressing ..but if you are addresing me apparently ya don't know much about narcissism..

Narccissists cannot live without the approval of other people...

Haha..if it ain
t obvious i don't care what people think about me per my unusual actions that aren't within the norm of the herd..

You are not paying much attention to me..

But that
s kool dude..cause i ain't looking for anyone's approval or affirmations..or attention either..,

I'm interdependent on folks in real life..not this online stuff..that is an amusing distraction for me...Yea dude that's just assertive...

Making what i perceive and believe as knownow...

IS ALL..sharing it for those who care to hear it...and to ignore just as easily too,..as i would ignore silly personal attacks like this..if it wasn't an amusing distraction...while i' m waiting on CHristmas lunch.....


Why does everything have to be about you? :?



MCalavera
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25 Dec 2013, 8:10 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
The passage shows that he had a sense of grandiosity about him that was quite delusional. But then again, you're familiar with that sense, OP.

No need for cheap shots. I am in no way delusional. Just trying to show people the way. I feel like it's my duty to help get the message of the real Jesus through to people



aghogday
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25 Dec 2013, 10:15 pm

MCalavera wrote:
aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I don't personally find narcissism to be beautiful.


I do not know who you are addressing ..but if you are addresing me apparently ya don't know much about narcissism..

Narccissists cannot live without the approval of other people...

Haha..if it ain
t obvious i don't care what people think about me per my unusual actions that aren't within the norm of the herd..

You are not paying much attention to me..

But that
s kool dude..cause i ain't looking for anyone's approval or affirmations..or attention either..,

I'm interdependent on folks in real life..not this online stuff..that is an amusing distraction for me...Yea dude that's just assertive...

Making what i perceive and believe as knownow...

IS ALL..sharing it for those who care to hear it...and to ignore just as easily too,..as i would ignore silly personal attacks like this..if it wasn't an amusing distraction...while i' m waiting on CHristmas lunch.....


Why does everything have to be about you? :?


Well..dude your mo is the personal attack thingy when ya can no longer present counterpoints in discussions here..all the delusional and narcissist talk..

It'S PRETTY SIMPLY.. IF YA DON'T WANT IT TO BE PERSONAL LEAVE THE PERSONAL ATTACKS OUT.........

IT
S TYPICAL FOR THIS PARTICULAR FORUM...I CAN PROVIDE SCORES OF QUOTES WHERE PEOPLE GIVE UP THE DISCUSSION AT HAND AND RESORT TO PERSONAL ATTACKS...

IN my opinion that is simply ridiculous as it serves no useful purpose for discussion..other than a flame war....

I
m happy in real life..i ain't got to show i'm a big man in words by attacking the personal attributes of other people..online.....

And yah..if i wanted to you would not like to hear what i have to say about ya friend..either....

But this is a free site to use..and i do respect the rules here that say personal attacks are not allowed....


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aghogday
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25 Dec 2013, 10:31 pm

MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
The passage shows that he had a sense of grandiosity about him that was quite delusional. But then again, you're familiar with that sense, OP.

No need for cheap shots. I am in no way delusional. Just trying to show people the way. I feel like it's my duty to help get the message of the real Jesus through to people


Well dude for people who really do know the real historical Jesus there is no other choice but to walk in his footsteps...

And part of that is to counter the myths that are spread about him today..

A sense of duty..is a human attribute that is more lacking in society these days..but people like the OP make me have hope for humanity overall..

At least a sense of duty..still exists in isolated pockets..

And if ya wanna call it zealous focus..that
s kool too...

There ain
t no doubt that Jesus is at least on the broader autism phenotype..as that historical dude did have an all pervasive laser focus on attaining the bliss that is in the heaven of now..and share a way for others to get there..

That have been limited by the patriarchal powers of the Church ever since the true gnostic gospels were hidden from public purview..including the reality that the lead apostle was likely Mary Magdalene not Peter..with even a rivalry going on to keep women down
''in their place' at that time and much farther into the future.....

And nah ya do not get to do that for free to the OP either....

At least not here now....

And yah..i can provide the documentation on Mary Magdalene and the gnostic Gospels if ya like......

this..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdPEW2W-R98[/youtube]


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Last edited by aghogday on 26 Dec 2013, 12:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

MCalavera
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25 Dec 2013, 10:40 pm

aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I don't personally find narcissism to be beautiful.


I do not know who you are addressing ..but if you are addresing me apparently ya don't know much about narcissism..

Narccissists cannot live without the approval of other people...

Haha..if it ain
t obvious i don't care what people think about me per my unusual actions that aren't within the norm of the herd..

You are not paying much attention to me..

But that
s kool dude..cause i ain't looking for anyone's approval or affirmations..or attention either..,

I'm interdependent on folks in real life..not this online stuff..that is an amusing distraction for me...Yea dude that's just assertive...

Making what i perceive and believe as knownow...

IS ALL..sharing it for those who care to hear it...and to ignore just as easily too,..as i would ignore silly personal attacks like this..if it wasn't an amusing distraction...while i' m waiting on CHristmas lunch.....


Why does everything have to be about you? :?


Well..dude your mo is the personal attack thingy when ya can no longer present counterpoints in discussions here..all the delusional and narcissist talk..

It'S PRETTY SIMPLY.. IF YA DON'T WANT IT TO BE PERSONAL LEAVE THE PERSONAL ATTACKS OUT.........

IT
S TYPICAL FOR THIS PARTICULAR FORUM...I CAN PROVIDE SCORES OF QUOTES WHERE PEOPLE GIVE UP THE DISCUSSION AT HAND AND RESORT TO PERSONAL ATTACKS...

IN my opinion that is simply ridiculous as it serves no useful purpose for discussion..other than a flame war....

I
m happy in real life..i ain't got to show i'm a big man in words by attacking the personal attributes of other people..online.....

And yah..if i wanted to you would not like to hear what i have to say about ya friend..either....

But this is a free site to use..and i do respect the rules here that say personal attacks are not allowed....


Not surprised to see you take it personally. After all, this could apply to you as well as to any person who displays signs of grandiosity (even though I wasn't even alluding to you initially in this discussion).



aghogday
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25 Dec 2013, 10:46 pm

MCalavera wrote:
aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I don't personally find narcissism to be beautiful.


I do not know who you are addressing ..but if you are addresing me apparently ya don't know much about narcissism..

Narccissists cannot live without the approval of other people...

Haha..if it ain
t obvious i don't care what people think about me per my unusual actions that aren't within the norm of the herd..

You are not paying much attention to me..

But that
s kool dude..cause i ain't looking for anyone's approval or affirmations..or attention either..,

I'm interdependent on folks in real life..not this online stuff..that is an amusing distraction for me...Yea dude that's just assertive...

Making what i perceive and believe as knownow...

IS ALL..sharing it for those who care to hear it...and to ignore just as easily too,..as i would ignore silly personal attacks like this..if it wasn't an amusing distraction...while i' m waiting on CHristmas lunch.....


Why does everything have to be about you? :?


Well..dude your mo is the personal attack thingy when ya can no longer present counterpoints in discussions here..all the delusional and narcissist talk..

It'S PRETTY SIMPLY.. IF YA DON'T WANT IT TO BE PERSONAL LEAVE THE PERSONAL ATTACKS OUT.........

IT
S TYPICAL FOR THIS PARTICULAR FORUM...I CAN PROVIDE SCORES OF QUOTES WHERE PEOPLE GIVE UP THE DISCUSSION AT HAND AND RESORT TO PERSONAL ATTACKS...

IN my opinion that is simply ridiculous as it serves no useful purpose for discussion..other than a flame war....

I
m happy in real life..i ain't got to show i'm a big man in words by attacking the personal attributes of other people..online.....

And yah..if i wanted to you would not like to hear what i have to say about ya friend..either....

But this is a free site to use..and i do respect the rules here that say personal attacks are not allowed....


Not surprised to see you take it personally. After all, this could apply to you as well as to any person who displays signs of grandiosity (even though I wasn't even alluding to you initially in this discussion).


Well actually i did not know who you were referring to ..but it doesn
t really matter as people who do follow in the real foot steps of jesus will give up their lives if necessary to defend other people who walk in those same footsteps...

That may seem crazy to ya..dude..i do not know..

But i can tell you this..if you ever..ever ..ever truly walk in the similar footsteps of the historical Jesus that only means gaining the perfection of Christ Consciousness..you will likely feel the same way...

And nah..giving up your life for someone else for love is the farthest thing from grandiosity you could likely imagine....

It
s called confidence dude..and the Christ Consciousness not only makes an individual strong like
'superman'..it most definitely makes them fearless too....


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MCalavera
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25 Dec 2013, 11:16 pm

aghogday wrote:
That have been limited by the patriarchal powers of the Church ever since the true gnostic gospels were hidden from public purview..including the reality that the lead apostle was likely Mary Magdalene not Peter..with even a rivalry going on to keep women down
''in their place' at that time and much farther into the future.....

And nah ya do not get to do that for free to the OP either....

At least not here now....

And yah..i can provide the documentation on Mary Magdalene and the gnostic Gospels if ya like......

this..

http://youtu.be/pdPEW2W-R98


Highly improbable as the earliest texts do not overall mention Mary Magdalene as lead disciple.



MCalavera
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25 Dec 2013, 11:17 pm

aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I don't personally find narcissism to be beautiful.


I do not know who you are addressing ..but if you are addresing me apparently ya don't know much about narcissism..

Narccissists cannot live without the approval of other people...

Haha..if it ain
t obvious i don't care what people think about me per my unusual actions that aren't within the norm of the herd..

You are not paying much attention to me..

But that
s kool dude..cause i ain't looking for anyone's approval or affirmations..or attention either..,

I'm interdependent on folks in real life..not this online stuff..that is an amusing distraction for me...Yea dude that's just assertive...

Making what i perceive and believe as knownow...

IS ALL..sharing it for those who care to hear it...and to ignore just as easily too,..as i would ignore silly personal attacks like this..if it wasn't an amusing distraction...while i' m waiting on CHristmas lunch.....


Why does everything have to be about you? :?


Well..dude your mo is the personal attack thingy when ya can no longer present counterpoints in discussions here..all the delusional and narcissist talk..

It'S PRETTY SIMPLY.. IF YA DON'T WANT IT TO BE PERSONAL LEAVE THE PERSONAL ATTACKS OUT.........

IT
S TYPICAL FOR THIS PARTICULAR FORUM...I CAN PROVIDE SCORES OF QUOTES WHERE PEOPLE GIVE UP THE DISCUSSION AT HAND AND RESORT TO PERSONAL ATTACKS...

IN my opinion that is simply ridiculous as it serves no useful purpose for discussion..other than a flame war....

I
m happy in real life..i ain't got to show i'm a big man in words by attacking the personal attributes of other people..online.....

And yah..if i wanted to you would not like to hear what i have to say about ya friend..either....

But this is a free site to use..and i do respect the rules here that say personal attacks are not allowed....


Not surprised to see you take it personally. After all, this could apply to you as well as to any person who displays signs of grandiosity (even though I wasn't even alluding to you initially in this discussion).


Well actually i did not know who you were referring to ..but it doesn
t really matter as people who do follow in the real foot steps of jesus will give up their lives if necessary to defend other people who walk in those same footsteps...

That may seem crazy to ya..dude..i do not know..

But i can tell you this..if you ever..ever ..ever truly walk in the similar footsteps of the historical Jesus that only means gaining the perfection of Christ Consciousness..you will likely feel the same way...

And nah..giving up your life for someone else for love is the farthest thing from grandiosity you could likely imagine....

It
s called confidence dude..and the Christ Consciousness not only makes an individual strong like
'superman'..it most definitely makes them fearless too....


Don't confuse grandiosity for confidence. This whole New Agey Christ Consciousness is grandiose in nature and not based in reality.



aghogday
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26 Dec 2013, 12:04 am

MCalavera wrote:
aghogday wrote:
That have been limited by the patriarchal powers of the Church ever since the true gnostic gospels were hidden from public purview..including the reality that the lead apostle was likely Mary Magdalene not Peter..with even a rivalry going on to keep women down
''in their place' at that time and much farther into the future.....

And nah ya do not get to do that for free to the OP either....

At least not here now....

And yah..i can provide the documentation on Mary Magdalene and the gnostic Gospels if ya like......

this..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdPEW2W-R98[/youtube]


Highly improbable as the earliest texts do not overall mention Mary Magdalene as lead disciple.


Well if ya wanna get educated on that friend..watch the video i provided...the link was broke and i just fixed it....


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aghogday
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26 Dec 2013, 12:09 am

MCalavera wrote:
aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
aghogday wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I don't personally find narcissism to be beautiful.


I do not know who you are addressing ..but if you are addresing me apparently ya don't know much about narcissism..

Narccissists cannot live without the approval of other people...

Haha..if it ain
t obvious i don't care what people think about me per my unusual actions that aren't within the norm of the herd..

You are not paying much attention to me..

But that
s kool dude..cause i ain't looking for anyone's approval or affirmations..or attention either..,

I'm interdependent on folks in real life..not this online stuff..that is an amusing distraction for me...Yea dude that's just assertive...

Making what i perceive and believe as knownow...

IS ALL..sharing it for those who care to hear it...and to ignore just as easily too,..as i would ignore silly personal attacks like this..if it wasn't an amusing distraction...while i' m waiting on CHristmas lunch.....


Why does everything have to be about you? :?


Well..dude your mo is the personal attack thingy when ya can no longer present counterpoints in discussions here..all the delusional and narcissist talk..

It'S PRETTY SIMPLY.. IF YA DON'T WANT IT TO BE PERSONAL LEAVE THE PERSONAL ATTACKS OUT.........

IT
S TYPICAL FOR THIS PARTICULAR FORUM...I CAN PROVIDE SCORES OF QUOTES WHERE PEOPLE GIVE UP THE DISCUSSION AT HAND AND RESORT TO PERSONAL ATTACKS...

IN my opinion that is simply ridiculous as it serves no useful purpose for discussion..other than a flame war....

I
m happy in real life..i ain't got to show i'm a big man in words by attacking the personal attributes of other people..online.....

And yah..if i wanted to you would not like to hear what i have to say about ya friend..either....

But this is a free site to use..and i do respect the rules here that say personal attacks are not allowed....


Not surprised to see you take it personally. After all, this could apply to you as well as to any person who displays signs of grandiosity (even though I wasn't even alluding to you initially in this discussion).


Well actually i did not know who you were referring to ..but it doesn
t really matter as people who do follow in the real foot steps of jesus will give up their lives if necessary to defend other people who walk in those same footsteps...

That may seem crazy to ya..dude..i do not know..

But i can tell you this..if you ever..ever ..ever truly walk in the similar footsteps of the historical Jesus that only means gaining the perfection of Christ Consciousness..you will likely feel the same way...

And nah..giving up your life for someone else for love is the farthest thing from grandiosity you could likely imagine....

It
s called confidence dude..and the Christ Consciousness not only makes an individual strong like
'superman'..it most definitely makes them fearless too....


Don't confuse grandiosity for confidence. This whole New Agey Christ Consciousness is grandiose in nature and not based in reality.


Sorry friend but in my opinion your opinion is incorrect..

The New Agey Christ Consciousness thingy..IS A REAL PHENOMENON AND IS THE REASON I AT 53 AM STRONGER THAN ANYONE IN THE ELITE MILITARY BASE I WORK OUT IN...on the Nautilus Machines there...

AND YAH..AS A PERMANENTLY DISABLED INDIVIDUAL..RETIRED FROM THE GOVERNMENT..WITH 19 MEDICALLY DOCUMENTED DISORDERS....


Couldn't do it before..i got the Christ Consciousness..thingy..JUST 6 MONTHS AGO..or walk an alternating pattern IN forward and reverse..for close to 23 miles in a mall last Friday..while my wife shopped...

I WAS ALMOST A COMPLETE SHUT-IN FOR OVER 5 YEARS..BEFORE THAT....

No s**t..i've got the Christ Consciousness super powers..and documented evidence to back it up.....

If ya don't have it sure it might seem grandiose..until it becomes your reality..if and when that could ever be possible..for a NON-believer.....with no faith....

But the most powerful thing i have in real life..IS THE HEALING POWER OF THE LIGHT AND LOVE OF THE CHRIST CONSCIOUSNESS....

YA WOULD HAVE TO WITNESS THAT IN PERSON TO BELIEVE IT IF AND ONLY IF YOU HAD THE ABILITY TO FEEL IT..

AND SOME PEOPLE.. MOST SADLY.. DON'T.....

BUT THANK GOD RELATIVELY FEW PEOPLE WHERE I LIVE..AS A GREAT OVERALL PLACE FOR FAITH AND BELIEF IN THE HIGHER POWER THAT IS THE CHRIST CONSCIOUSNESS OR WHATEVER YA MIGHT CHOOSE TO VERBALIZE IT AS....


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aghogday
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26 Dec 2013, 12:42 am

AND OH BY THE WAY..that power of THE belief thingy that is the crux of what the real historical Jesus was talking about..that could heal the medical disorders of people..

IS not just a fairy tale friend..

Modern science has measured IT AS A REAL MEDICALLY DOCUMENTED POWER...

The mind can either cure or make disorders happen..simply through the power of belief..

And there is at least some evidence that this just don't work for people on the Autism Spectrum as neither the placebo or nocebo effect is effective for some folks on the Autism Spectrum..


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2hO4_UEe-4[/youtube]

But please don't take my word for it..here is the evidence.....

And yes at this point the lack of a placebo effect of the power of suggestion..has only been tested so far among some people on the spectrum..in limited numbers to date..

But there is absolutely no reason to believe the nocebo effect would work in any other way..as it is essentially the same phenomenon..in how the human mind works...

I think i told you before that i do not believe in the supernatural...

And science IS finally catching up on some of what Jesus already knew about 2K years ago...

Practice makes perfect..and he simply took the time to practice it..to make it perfect enough to work......

And so do I..but it took over 5 decades to get there...

He did in a little over 3.......


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TheGoggles
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26 Dec 2013, 1:06 am

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aghogday
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26 Dec 2013, 1:27 am

TheGoggles wrote:
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Well..that also pretty much describes what it's like to be the only non-believer among a crowd of believers..

The only thing is..they got it correct....

And in this case this dude..would be standing in the dark...while everyone around him was seeing light....

But i'm really not sure what context you are using with this...

Lots of different ways per cognitive empathy to understand that..

If one is so pre-disposed to be able to achieve this human ability and skill....


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