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Shau
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01 Jan 2014, 12:26 am

Oh AP stop trolling all the feminists! If they're particularly sensitive it's perfectly understandable because lots of women DO have to deal with a lot of sexist bullshit on the day to day. It's not some kind of conspiracy, I've seen plenty of it with my own eyes.



LKL
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01 Jan 2014, 3:09 am

AP, in what context did you mean the word "creatures" when you used it back there?



Venger
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01 Jan 2014, 7:42 am

The word creatures is often used when referring to humanity in general. For example: "humans are such selfish creatures" or "humans are such strange creatures", etc. It's usually used when making a generalization about how people often do things that are dumb and "primal" sounding.



ArrantPariah
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01 Jan 2014, 10:23 am

LKL wrote:
AP, in what context did you mean the word "creatures" when you used it back there?


I was taking the subtitle of your original article

Women are not a mystical, nice-smelling collective

and chose the word "creatures" because it means humans (at least in a subset of the dictionary definition), and starts with the same letter as "collective."

By the same token, one could take offense at her use of the word "collective", because the word "collective" could also be used to refer to non-humans. For example, collective fruits are fruits that are formed from multiple flowers, such as mulberries and pineapples.

Most women do bathe regularly, and do smell quite nice. So, why isn't anyone taking offense at her implication that women are stinky?

She might just as well have said: "Women are a bunch of non-mystical, foul-smelling fruits."



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01 Jan 2014, 10:30 am

Grushenka was referred to as a creature in the Brothers Karamazov.It was not used in a nice way.Maybe a polite way of calling a woman a female dog or worse.


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ArrantPariah
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01 Jan 2014, 10:47 am

Jodi Picoult wrote:
My brother believed in all sorts of mythical creatures: pixies, dragons, werewolves, honest men.


See? A female author, using the word "creatures" to refer to men.

Suppose she had written: "My brother believed in all sorts of mythical creatures: pixies, dragons, werewolves, honest women."

On the warpath, now?



Shau
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01 Jan 2014, 10:49 am

I think both men and women should speak of each other with respect.



leafplant
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01 Jan 2014, 11:20 am

As a true egalitarian I despise everyone equally.


Does it not occur to anyone that there cannot be a solution to any of these problems ever?



puddingmouse
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01 Jan 2014, 11:47 am

Shau wrote:
I think both men and women should speak of each other with respect.


Yeah, I see respect as something that can be lost rather than needing to be earned. And only individuals can lose my respect, not enormous groups like 'men'.


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ArrantPariah
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01 Jan 2014, 12:08 pm

With the Feminists, it does seem that a guy can dig himself into a hole, even unintentionally, really fast. Several pages already, to justify one word.

Some more quotes where the word "creature" is applied to people

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/creatures

Zoe Archer wrote:
“Men," she said rueful, "are the most absurd creatures on this green earth." "But there are camels," Gabriel pointed out. "Believe me," she answered. "I've taken camels into consideration.”


M.F. Moonzajer wrote:
Girls are very complicated creatures, they make you give up and then they say” I knew you would give up.”

Idealists are either blind or clowns; because they think it is possible to have a beautiful world with as*hole creatures like humans.

We are the most disgusting and obnoxious creatures; we can’t succeed, and we won’t let others too.


Bryant McGill wrote:
As creatures with a body, we should all be especially concerned about the quality of air, water and food we allow into our bodily vehicle.


Wendell Berry wrote:
We are working well when we use ourselves as the fellow creatures of the plants, animals, materials, and other people we are working with. Such work is unifying, healing. It brings us home from pride and from despair, and places us responsible within the human estate. It defines us as we are: not too good to work with our bodies, but too good to work poorly or joylessly or selfishly or alone.


Roman Payne wrote:
Women are extraordinary creatures!


http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywo ... ature.html

Mark Twain wrote:
Man - a creature made at the end of the week's work when God was tired.


Swami Vivekanaka wrote:
The Vedanta recognizes no sin it only recognizes error. And the greatest error, says the Vedanta is to say that you are weak, that you are a sinner, a miserable creature, and that you have no power and you cannot do this and that.


Robert Louis Stevenson wrote:
Man is a creature who lives not upon bread alone, but primarily by catchwords.


Abigail Adams wrote:
I am more and more convinced that man is a dangerous creature and that power, whether vested in many or a few, is ever grasping, and like the grave, cries, 'Give, give.'


Honore de Balzac wrote:
A man is a poor creature compared to a woman.


Emma Goldman wrote:
It is essential that we realize once and for all that man is much more of a sex creature than a moral creature. The former is inherent, the other is grafted on.


Friedrich Schuller wrote:
All things must; man is the only creature that wills.


Eric Hoffer wrote:
Man is the only creature that strives to surpass himself, and yearns for the impossible.


George Orwell wrote:
Man is the only creature that consumes without producing. He does not give milk, he does not lay eggs, he is too weak to pull the plough, he cannot run fast enough to catch rabbits. Yet he is lord of all the animals.


Karl Marx wrote:
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.


Eminem wrote:
I'm very much a creature of habit.


Samuel Johnson wrote:
There is nothing, Sir, too little for so little a creature as man. It is by studying little things that we attain the great art of having as little misery and as much happiness as possible.


Martha Graham wrote:
The body is your instrument in dance, but your art is outside that creature, the body.


Steven Pinker wrote:
Human evolution, at first, seems extraordinary. How could the process that gave rise to slugs and oak trees and fish produce a creature that can fly to the moon and invent the Internet and cross the ocean in boats?


Pearl S. Buck wrote:
The bitterest creature under heaven is the wife who discovers that her husband's bravery is only bravado, that his strength is only a uniform, that his power is but a gun in the hands of a fool.



The quotes go on, and on, and on, and on. I trust that I am satisfactorily exonerated, at least for this one imagined transgression against Feminist sensitivities.



ArrantPariah
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01 Jan 2014, 2:48 pm

LKL wrote:
If we're hard to understand, it's because humans are complex and hard to understand, men no less than women.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdO81D51J30[/youtube]



The_Face_of_Boo
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01 Jan 2014, 2:51 pm

Feralucce wrote:
As a male who is a gender equality feminist... Gender roles are complete and utter garbage.

Aside from the biology of the genders... the only differences between men and women are a result of culture. Meaning, that the differences between gender in our society only exist because we believe it to be so, and behave with gender roles as an expectation.

Sexism, of any kind, is wrong... as with separate, but equal, benevolent sexism is not any better...


Women and men are different, that's not saying they don't deserve equality or justifies sexism, you as an Aspie you surely realize your brain is different yet that doesn't mean you don't deserve the same respect as NTs, right? Or do you also think that the difference between Aspies and NTs is only cultural?

Scientific researchers wouldn't agree with you that only culture makes the differences between women and men, not only they differ in sex organs and chromosomes but studies after studies of all kinds, biological, physiological, psychological, neurological, MRA Scans... show how fundamentally women and men are different, even their brain structures are different, how things process in their heads are different, how they perceive things and emotions are different, the distribution of the average IQ scores differ (like verbal vs spatial). In fact, the neurological difference between women and men's brains is probably more obvious and significant than the difference between Aspies and NTs of the same gender.

Also, culture isn't an independent entity that has emerged from nowhere, it has emerged from our nature as human beings, have you ever wondered for example, why the historic Protective role of males was and still apparent in almost all cultures? Whether in Cowboy culture, through the French Marketeer and going as far to the Samurai? Because it simply stems from a biological reality: men are physically stronger and women became much physically vulnerable during pregnancy, that biological model is due to million of years of evolution as a species.

We can be egalitarian without denying scientific and biological facts.



jrjones9933
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01 Jan 2014, 5:21 pm

leafplant wrote:
Does it not occur to anyone that there cannot be a solution to any of these problems ever?


Really, when people make this argument or argue against calling out bigotry, it suggests that they don't like people challenging the prejudiced BS that they spew. I like the idea of making bigots uncomfortable.

If I misunderstood, and you meant the problem of people feigning ignorance with the aim of shutting down a discussion that threatens their belief in a just world for everyone else and persecution for people like themselves, then yeah, there's probably no solution for that. You can't make people examine their own minds.

Anyone reading the last few pages of this topic with an open mind should have no trouble figuring out who takes the discussion seriously and who just wants to act cute.



leafplant
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01 Jan 2014, 6:36 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
leafplant wrote:
Does it not occur to anyone that there cannot be a solution to any of these problems ever?


Really, when people make this argument or argue against calling out bigotry, it suggests that they don't like people challenging the prejudiced BS that they spew. I like the idea of making bigots uncomfortable.

If I misunderstood, and you meant the problem of people feigning ignorance with the aim of shutting down a discussion that threatens their belief in a just world for everyone else and persecution for people like themselves, then yeah, there's probably no solution for that. You can't make people examine their own minds.

Anyone reading the last few pages of this topic with an open mind should have no trouble figuring out who takes the discussion seriously and who just wants to act cute.


Actually, you can, if you know how. What you can also do is make them reach the conclusions that you would like them to reach. Would you like to have that superpower?

..

while you think about that

how exactly is the world just when anyone is persecuted in it?



jrjones9933
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01 Jan 2014, 6:57 pm

About the first part, do tell. About the second part, it makes sense for maintaining positive self-esteem therefore it doesn't have to make logical sense. Psychology, people! Even hyper-logical Aspies have logical inconsistencies in their thinking about their own attitudes and behavior.