Politically correct people stay out of my threads

Page 9 of 11 [ 162 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next

gobi
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 99

23 Feb 2007, 4:57 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
gobi wrote:
This makes no sense.

He is essentially just stating that everyone is not equal, he argues that political correctness is a tool of the left to push forward ideas that are incorrect by making them seem "correct". He then ends with the belief that left-wing ideas are unrealistic. One can argue that he is incorrect, but his argument is easy to discern, and probably will be something that Davidufo will try to attack through attacking the right as wrong, and through defending political correctness as simply a way to be polite. I may be misinterpreting you as you might just be claiming that his logic does not follow.


Yeah, I got the gist of it. The logic doesn't follow.



gobi
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 99

23 Feb 2007, 5:03 pm

...But I probably should drop it. Sorry about saying anything.



AlexandertheSolitary
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,177
Location: Melbourne

23 Feb 2007, 11:32 pm

gobi wrote:
...But I probably should drop it. Sorry about saying anything.


No need to apologise. You have not said anything requiring atonement.


_________________
You are like children playing in the market-place saying, "We piped for you and you would not dance, we wailed a dirge for you and you would not weep."


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,316
Location: Omnipresent

23 Feb 2007, 11:47 pm

AlexandertheSolitary wrote:
gobi wrote:
...But I probably should drop it. Sorry about saying anything.


No need to apologise. You have not said anything requiring atonement.

Gobi, Alexander is right. You did nothing wrong. You just probably should be a bit more specific when asking or criticizing. That way your idea can be addressed and improve upon or destroy the argument at hand.



Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,316
Location: Omnipresent

24 Feb 2007, 12:04 am

AlexandertheSolitary wrote:
Of course markets should be used. They are needed for the exchange of goods and in the process ideas. I am just sceptical of the extent of the use; but certainly governments are not exactly a panacea either.

Well, I'd say that the big question in the economy is how widely markets should be used. There are effectively opinions all the way from anarcho-capitalism as you called me earlier to out and out totalitarianism. There is no panacea though, and I would ask anyone who thinks otherwise to think on their idea again.



gobi
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 99

24 Feb 2007, 4:13 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
AlexandertheSolitary wrote:
gobi wrote:
...But I probably should drop it. Sorry about saying anything.


No need to apologise. You have not said anything requiring atonement.

Gobi, Alexander is right. You did nothing wrong. You just probably should be a bit more specific when asking or criticizing. That way your idea can be addressed and improve upon or destroy the argument at hand.


Thanks for the advice. I try to avoid discussions like these online, because I find the logical processess of people discussing quasi-political/sociological views to be, on the whole, frightening. And when I read particulalry poorly constructed arguments (either with real logical fallacies or, as is usually the case, thousands of unspoken premises (most of which are as dubious as the ones formally described) I tend to want to lend a hand. (I have a formal education in logic, philosophy, and political science.) This invariably gets me into a world of s**t in NT-centric forums, because those people really don't want to learn anything -- they just want to parrot what they hear on the news, or in fora that appeals to ones political orientation. I'd guess that in here (at least from what I can tell reading through this thread) there's just a tendency towards unwarranted anger, fused together with all of the normal half-conceived thinking one can read elsewhere. Of course, in here everyone's treated with kid-gloves because of autistic spectrum issues. That's cool.

There is, as can be expected, some good thinking in here, as well. But's it's too much to sort through and being cognizant of everyone's baseline knowledge, understanding, biases, is too taxing.

So, to be on the safe side, I withdraw my comment.



Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,316
Location: Omnipresent

24 Feb 2007, 4:41 pm

gobi wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I try to avoid discussions like these online, because I find the logical processess of people discussing quasi-political/sociological views to be, on the whole, frightening. And when I read particulalry poorly constructed arguments (either with real logical fallacies or, as is usually the case, thousands of unspoken premises (most of which are as dubious as the ones formally described) I tend to want to lend a hand. (I have a formal education in logic, philosophy, and political science.) This invariably gets me into a world of s**t in NT-centric forums, because those people really don't want to learn anything -- they just want to parrot what they hear on the news, or in fora that appeals to ones political orientation. I'd guess that in here (at least from what I can tell reading through this thread) there's just a tendency towards unwarranted anger, fused together with all of the normal half-conceived thinking one can read elsewhere. Of course, in here everyone's treated with kid-gloves because of autistic spectrum issues. That's cool.
Logical processes frightening. Makes sense, most people do have many many premises flowing through their ideas that are not fully elaborated upon and usually more focus is put upon finding the one premise that we find to be the chink in the armor because trying to get people to go through their entire system is like pulling teeth. Many people do have premises that we would dislike or find shocking though.

What did you study to give you this formal education? Were you simply a philosophy and poli sci major or did you go deeper?

Yeah, bias is pretty much found everywhere in everyone and everyone attempts to avoid truth. I read something somewhat recently by libertarian economist Arnold Kling on that here: http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=010407A . It pretty much is an attack on everyone, no matter how educated, on their views.

Unwarranted anger? Are you speaking of the political views of some people or are you speaking on a specific person or a few? The reason I ask that is because some people are just hotheads. I think that McJeff and snake both end up fitting in that group. McJeff is very patriotic and snake believes he is very correct. I don't necessarily know about people being treated with kid gloves though, I suppose it is possible, however, I would simply think that there is a low level of flaming.
Quote:
There is, as can be expected, some good thinking in here, as well. But's it's too much to sort through and being cognizant of everyone's baseline knowledge, understanding, biases, is too taxing.
Ok, I think that is quite understandable. Sometimes getting to the heart of these matters is like pulling teeth. People often have a very powerful set of biases flowing through everything and to get at that and cause them to accept things can be difficult. As well, it is very difficult to try to teach them new things as well so that way they can understand where your point comes from.
Quote:
So, to be on the safe side, I withdraw my comment.

Your decision to make.



ascan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,352
Location: Taunton/Aberdeen

24 Feb 2007, 5:06 pm

gobi wrote:
I try to avoid discussions like these online, because I find the logical processess of people discussing quasi-political/sociological views to be, on the whole, frightening. And when I read particulalry poorly constructed arguments ...

Well, you can't seem to keep away from this one! Why don't you actually add something constructive? Btw, I'm sure you do have an excellent education in philosophy, logic and political sciences, but most of us here have not had such a privilege. You may find, also, that few of us have the time to construct a thesis length document every time we post, so we may have to argue using the odd unspoken premise. If you could possibly bear to hang around and communicate with us educationally-challenged hoi polloi, you may find that in some instances your vast breadth of education is no substitute for living the reality — that's to say, in this context, having to live with the influence of political correctness.



skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,156
Location: New Orleans, LA

24 Feb 2007, 5:24 pm

snake321 wrote:
Exactly what the heading said, if your concerned about political correctness stay the f**k out of my threads. I only want intelligent people to respond, people who care about truth, not lies designed to avoid offending oversensitive frail people.



you're a moron.

/don't whine about me not being politically correct
//don't act like you were asking for it
///i'm not PC but i can't stand people who make a big deal out of it either way



snake321
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,250

24 Feb 2007, 5:34 pm

skafather84 wrote:
snake321 wrote:
Exactly what the heading said, if your concerned about political correctness stay the f**k out of my threads. I only want intelligent people to respond, people who care about truth, not lies designed to avoid offending oversensitive frail people.



you're a moron.

/don't whine about me not being politically correct
//don't act like you were asking for it
///i'm not PC but i can't stand people who make a big deal out of it either way


For what it's worth I think your the moron. Why even discuss religion/politics/philosophy if your not even trying to discuss is progressively? What's the point, just to see yourself type? Irrational and immoral ideologies just make problems worse, it doesn't do a damn thing to fix them. You probably are a pc fanatic, just because you say otherwise doesn't mean anything because people like you lie out thier ass. You'd probably agree to anything just to fit in with the crowd here.



skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,156
Location: New Orleans, LA

24 Feb 2007, 5:42 pm

snake321 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
snake321 wrote:
Exactly what the heading said, if your concerned about political correctness stay the f**k out of my threads. I only want intelligent people to respond, people who care about truth, not lies designed to avoid offending oversensitive frail people.



you're a moron.

/don't whine about me not being politically correct
//don't act like you were asking for it
///i'm not PC but i can't stand people who make a big deal out of it either way


For what it's worth I think your the moron. Why even discuss religion/politics/philosophy if your not even trying to discuss is progressively? What's the point, just to see yourself type? Irrational and immoral ideologies just make problems worse, it doesn't do a damn thing to fix them. You probably are a pc fanatic, just because you say otherwise doesn't mean anything because people like you lie out thier ass. You'd probably agree to anything just to fit in with the crowd here.


see? all you're doing is an idiotic act of lashing out. how boring and predictable....actually i'm kinda surprised you'd actually reply in such a base manner.

you wanna talk progress? how about making circumcision illegal? how about the government quit wasting money and lives prosecuting people who consume marijuana and hallucinogenic mushrooms and instead prosecute people who look to undermine the constitution through legislation like bush's faith based initiatives. or how about peta be fined every time they put out a new lie about eating meat and be charged with misleading the general public?

oh, here's a fun one that no one bothers to consider.....zionism sucks and israel should not exist. if the jews need a place to stay, they've got florida.



snake321
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,250

24 Feb 2007, 9:46 pm

Ok well I can agree with you on atleast some of those things. I'm not totally sure how I feel about Israel, I have no problem with jewish people.... But some of them are a bit scheisty and over-capitolistic and arrogant and what not. Those portion of jews are potentially hazardous, but they don't represent all jews, there are lotsa good jews out there too... Einstein was jewish. The state of Israel has become somewhat corrupted though.

I think religion should be kept out of politics period, rather it's christianity, judaism, islam, atheism, or whatever. However, are jews a religion or a race? I think in a way theyr both, there is a jewish heritage and bloodline, a jewish history, these things can make someone jewish rather or not they believe in the religious part of it, by blood only. However, someone outside the jewish bloodline could convert to judaism as well, and they'd be jewish by their beliefs only. So I guess it depends on how one defines judaism.



snake321
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,250

25 Feb 2007, 12:18 am

Of coarse the reason I said that was because if there were an entire bloodline of people running for their lives through WW2, I can understand they had a major plight they had to fight through. Still though, Palestinians, from what I'm understanding, had been fighting for the land of Israel for hundreds of years before the jews came to live there. After WW2 we just kinda shoved the Palestinians aside to move the jews in, I can sort of see where Palestinians would have been angry initially. Still though I think they should learn to get along by now, which obviously theyr not, which is kinda sad..... I dunno where I stand on Israel though, honestly.



skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,156
Location: New Orleans, LA

25 Feb 2007, 12:33 am

snake321 wrote:
Ok well I can agree with you on atleast some of those things. I'm not totally sure how I feel about Israel, I have no problem with jewish people.... But some of them are a bit scheisty and over-capitolistic and arrogant and what not. Those portion of jews are potentially hazardous, but they don't represent all jews, there are lotsa good jews out there too... Einstein was jewish. The state of Israel has become somewhat corrupted though.

I think religion should be kept out of politics period, rather it's christianity, judaism, islam, atheism, or whatever. However, are jews a religion or a race? I think in a way theyr both, there is a jewish heritage and bloodline, a jewish history, these things can make someone jewish rather or not they believe in the religious part of it, by blood only. However, someone outside the jewish bloodline could convert to judaism as well, and they'd be jewish by their beliefs only. So I guess it depends on how one defines judaism.


i have no problem with jewish people either. not every jew is a zionist. just like not every muslim is an islamist/terrorist. i think stalin doesn't get blamed nearly enough for what he did with regards to genocide (there are no official records but supposedly he killed more jews than hitler). i'm anti-nazi, anti-racism, anti-homophobia.


but i'm not anti-semantics.

Image



or anti-semetic

Image



Davidufo
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 381
Location: London

27 Feb 2007, 11:31 am

ascan wrote:
Davidufo wrote:
Political correctness DOES mean being tolerant (something we should be very grateful of here, i think)


Enlighten us further, would you? What else does political correctness mean? I think to snake321, and certainly to myself, it means any real dialogue involving certain issues is stifled for fear of politically instigated repercussions. For example, say some local Muslim youths were intimidating elderly people, and this was becoming a problem for the indigenous inhabitants of a certain part of the UK. Chances are that the police would do little, the local press wouldn't report it, and those who pushed for action to be taken would be labelled as racist. And that's why nobody else would act: because being labelled racist means you can lose your job, be subject to intimidation, and even arrest and imprisonment. Who does that benefit? Only politicians, and the type of people who like to abuse the hospitality of a nation that's given them a home. Why does it occur specifically in the case I've given? Because politicians have filled the South east of the country to bursting point with foreigners of different cultures, languages and colours, with reckless negligence as regards to the impact on the people who already live here. These politicians, to protect their own positions, need to be able to control the understandable anger many feel: political correctness is one tool they use. Political correctness creates an illusion.

Davidufo wrote:
Everyone is equal...


But they are not. They never have been, and never will. Political correctness again uses an illusion to create an artificial paradigm for left wing ideology to function; it's the only place most left wing ideology can function: cloud-cuckoo-land.


:arrow: I think it's partly my point through this ... people like you have too much fear, you are afraid of treating everyone well and equally (it scares you) ...you need to feel dominant over certain groups of people. (typical right-wing-no-brainer attitude, and VERY NT) ......to make your point you yourself exaggerate, bend the truth and get things out of proportion (read your posts) ..so it's wrong of you to declare that that is down to political correctness, really.

Being politically correct in my view is simply the difference between, for example:

saying that a person is a total thicko or a spastic (..or some other derogatory name)
or
saying that the person is handicapped or disabled

The latter is the politically correct version ...not only is it a much better thing to call a person, but quite often it is more accurate to the truth, and NOT (as has been suggested) a means to hide the truth. ..same information, without needlessly hurting anyone.

[put that way, it does seem simple, but this is just an example of 'a way of thinking']
(..cave-man ..or considerate man ..and it's about time we left cave-man behind, don't ya think :wink: )


As with snake321, you should question how much your thinking about political correctness is influenced by your own racial views.
Haha ... that was the political correct version ... the other way would have been to straight-out call you a raci5t ... think about it
(you want political correcness for you ... but nobody else ... which is wrong, and unworkable ......and dangerous)



:star: Something to think about......
It is the Right-Wing anti-political correctness bunch (more-or-less) that have power currently.
They are the bunch (on the whole) who have had power for the past few years, too.
......... Just look at the lies they've spread .....the 'spin' they've used, even to their own peoples
You talk about illusions being created, and artificial bla bla bla ....but consider this:

You've already been duped by such tricks, and to keep you duped the alternatives (left/liberal/human) are portrayed to you as a danger ... to be feared (...that is evident in what you are saying here)



Last edited by Davidufo on 27 Feb 2007, 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.