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Adamantium
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05 Feb 2014, 6:22 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I can not say I have watched every show just the last 3 starting when Hank got his suspicions.

If you are conspiracy theory minded the founder of Autism Speaks was the former Chairmen at NBC and this is an NBC show. However
SPOILER ALERT: In the last show revolves around Max's Mom advocating for Max and the mother of a Aspie girl. Max's mom realizes she can't help her fellow mother. Max's dad finds out that his history teacher has sent Max to the library 27 times rather then deal with Max. Max's parents are angry and set up a meeting to demand that the History teacher stop sending Max to the library. Max's parents, his principle, and History teacher have a meeting. They go through other possible available options and all the other options are worse then then sending Max to the library. Max's Mom has the sickening realization that there is no place where Max can thrive in the school system, Max is always going to fall through the cracks http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/fal ... the+cracks. The show ends with Max' mom thinking about starting her own school.

This is the story of my life, I have been falling through cracks for 5+ decades. Painful episode because it is so true.


I enjoyed this episode, too. My wife and I have discussed the possibility of starting a neurodiverse alternative high school in our town.



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17 Apr 2014, 11:02 am

I admit, I have gotten swept away with this show and looking forward to the Season Finale!

I just caught up on Season 5, because full episodes of the entire season happen to be on Hulu right now at:

http://www.hulu.com/parenthood

So, I was already following the story of young Max with interest in the past season or 2. Now Hank turns out to be going through adult diagnosis at 40+ years old???? Was I ever surprised by that twist!.....though it makes so much sense. I love how they've captured how shocking the discovery has been for Hank, and how/why a person could come to be that age thinking that they're normal.

And I can't wait to see the new Charter School they're starting for Max. :lol:


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mikassyna
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17 Apr 2014, 12:08 pm

Adamantium wrote:
There is an episode that makes much of the bogus 80% divorce rate and there is the presentation of Max as having no sympathy for others. He is unlike any AS person I have met. He seems not to have grown at all, emotionally, though he has transitioned from a special school to a mainstreaming classroom and his knowledge is expanding. I find this implausible.
<snip>
What do you think? Am I misreading everything? Does Max seem like a fair portrayal to you? Do the rest of the Bravermans seem like real people to you? Do you feel you have learned anything about patterns of NT relationship from the show, or is it just entertainment?

edited to fix sentence left unfinished by accident.


I don't like the portrayal of Max. I don't like many portrayals of many people on the spectrum on TV. I didn't much like the Bridge's portrayal of Sonya either, but I kept watching just to see how it would work out. I can relate more to Sonya than Max, however, although I do find that Sonya's behavior seemed a contrived and oftentimes implausible. Good acting shouldn't seem to look like acting. Sonya and Max appear/ed too much to be acting. There is a fluidity that is missing. It feels as if they are thinking too much about their behavior instead of owning it. Maybe it's the scriptwriting too. I think they interject ridiculous scenarios or behaviors simply to make it obvious the character is autistic. In life, I've come across obvious autistics and imperceptible autistics and none of the actors seem to get it right, except perhaps for the extreme cases like in Rain Man, which set a certain unfortunate standard in how the world views autism in general.

Sometimes it's natural to think too much about one's own behavior, but the missing link is that when I do it, either I get jammed up or I try too hard to be natural. They are too natural trying and thinking too hard to look ASD.

I will say, however, that I *LOVE* Hank's version of a possible Aspie. His version is MUCH MUCH MUCH more plausible.



mikassyna
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17 Apr 2014, 12:17 pm

Adamantium wrote:
I also found it difficult to watch him write in the book--not really because he was writing in the book (my dad did that!) but because he was roughly (almost violently) scrawling huge circles in the book... How will anyone else be able to read it now?! !


I had to chuckle at this. I never realized I was "allowed" to write in a book until I dated a English professor when I was 27. He wrote in books all the time, and he was brilliant. It sort of gave me the "green light" to do it, and I did for a little while. But after having been broken up from our relationship for about 15 years, I have gone back to my rigid ways and won't write in books anymore LOL I guess I had a temporary flirt with the wild side! :)



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17 Apr 2014, 1:18 pm

mikassyna wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
There is an episode that makes much of the bogus 80% divorce rate and there is the presentation of Max as having no sympathy for others. He is unlike any AS person I have met. He seems not to have grown at all, emotionally, though he has transitioned from a special school to a mainstreaming classroom and his knowledge is expanding. I find this implausible.
<snip>
What do you think? Am I misreading everything? Does Max seem like a fair portrayal to you? Do the rest of the Bravermans seem like real people to you? Do you feel you have learned anything about patterns of NT relationship from the show, or is it just entertainment?

edited to fix sentence left unfinished by accident.


I don't like the portrayal of Max. I don't like many portrayals of many people on the spectrum on TV. I didn't much like the Bridge's portrayal of Sonya either, but I kept watching just to see how it would work out. I can relate more to Sonya than Max, however, although I do find that Sonya's behavior seemed a contrived and oftentimes implausible. Good acting shouldn't seem to look like acting. Sonya and Max appear/ed too much to be acting. There is a fluidity that is missing. It feels as if they are thinking too much about their behavior instead of owning it. Maybe it's the scriptwriting too. I think they interject ridiculous scenarios or behaviors simply to make it obvious the character is autistic. In life, I've come across obvious autistics and imperceptible autistics and none of the actors seem to get it right, except perhaps for the extreme cases like in Rain Man, which set a certain unfortunate standard in how the world views autism in general.

Sometimes it's natural to think too much about one's own behavior, but the missing link is that when I do it, either I get jammed up or I try too hard to be natural. They are too natural trying and thinking too hard to look ASD.

I will say, however, that I *LOVE* Hank's version of a possible Aspie. His version is MUCH MUCH MUCH more plausible.


Max's character is pretty much the Little Professor stereotype, but the actor does a pretty decent job (for a kid), I think. True they are going to need a lot more consulting to improve Max's character and keep Hank's character on track! I do wonder how they will depict Hank's melt downs, and I'm sure they will....

I see all the characters on this show as over-the-top stereotypes. (ie, Sarah, single mom struggling to relate to her children and get a career late in life) so maybe that's one reason I can take Max's character with a grain of salt. For goodness sakes, Christina ran for Mayor of Berkeley. :lol:


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17 Apr 2014, 2:43 pm

mikassyna wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
I also found it difficult to watch him write in the book--not really because he was writing in the book (my dad did that!) but because he was roughly (almost violently) scrawling huge circles in the book... How will anyone else be able to read it now?! !


I had to chuckle at this. I never realized I was "allowed" to write in a book until I dated a English professor when I was 27. He wrote in books all the time, and he was brilliant. It sort of gave me the "green light" to do it, and I did for a little while. But after having been broken up from our relationship for about 15 years, I have gone back to my rigid ways and won't write in books anymore LOL I guess I had a temporary flirt with the wild side! :)


The big circles were a bit over dramatic (but still OK), though I did laugh when he presented the book back to Adam and Christina, all worn out and covered with post-its. :lol:


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Adamantium
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20 Apr 2014, 8:26 am

I have been catching up with this show-- I never watch it when it is on TV, but I watch it on the NBC app, so I tend to watch multiple episodes in a row.

Dr. Pelican came pretty close to giving Hank a diagnosis when he says something like "we've been exploring the possibility that asperger's may have a negative impact on your life and now that you are seeing that it does, you are angry," and then a while later he says, "It's OK to be angry at aspergers." It seems that the "jump ball" is tilting in favor of an ASD diagnosis.

I found this episode somewhat depressing because that scene reminded me of a moment in my diagnostic interview when the doctor asked me about the date of my marriage and I was able to tell him the date but not the year. I said I would call my wife to get that information and he said that I should not, because it might hurt her feelings. I said that it would not her feelings because she knows I am like that and he told me I was wrong, it would, in fact, hurt her feelings.

The way they portrayed Hank's obliviousness and denial was exactly right. I found it slightly painful to identify with it.

I was also a little depressed about the conversation between Adam and Sarah about her relationship with Hank. Very Autism-speaksish. "Your worried that he might be on the spectrum.... I hope it works out with you and Hank because that would mean there is some hope for Max, who is, you know, otherwise completely screwed..."

But I am still sort of hooked on the show.

It was interesting to contrast the very NT relationship complications Julia and Drew are having with the much more familiar and (to me) realistic problems Hank is having. I find myself wondering how realistic parts of that are as observations of behavior and how much is just the needs of writing teams to create dynamic and interesting plotlines.



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20 Apr 2014, 11:06 am

Adamantium wrote:
It was interesting to contrast the very NT relationship complications Julia and Drew are having with the much more familiar and (to me) realistic problems Hank is having.


Funny - I could relate much more to Hank's interpersonal problems, now that you mention it, than to Julia and Drew's - though we've all seen the type of separation struggles Julia and Drew are going through played out before on a million other movies and TV shows. I find those characters much less interesting, though I was happy to see how Victor managed to bring the family together.

Adamantium wrote:
I find myself wondering how realistic parts of that are as observations of behavior and how much is just the needs of writing teams to create dynamic and interesting plotlines.


I agree with what mikassyna said earlier:

mikassyna wrote:
It feels as if they are thinking too much about their behavior instead of owning it. Maybe it's the scriptwriting too. I think they interject ridiculous scenarios or behaviors simply to make it obvious the character is autistic.


The writers are really shameless in this regard, aren't they? But I don't think the autistic characters are the only ones constantly being thrown into 'scenarios.' I don't watch a lot of TV but is this a new genre, of creating a set of characters then inserting ridiculous scenario after scenario? Reminds me of my other favorite Hulu show, Once Upon a Time. :) Now we have Haddie coming home from college and stealing the season finale spotlight with the announcement that she's in a lesbian relationship? And grampa giving grandson the Pontiac. :roll:

I am happy Sarah and Hank are going to give it another go. :wink:


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mikassyna
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20 Apr 2014, 7:00 pm

EmeraldGreen wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
It was interesting to contrast the very NT relationship complications Julia and Drew are having with the much more familiar and (to me) realistic problems Hank is having.


Funny - I could relate much more to Hank's interpersonal problems, now that you mention it, than to Julia and Drew's - though we've all seen the type of separation struggles Julia and Drew are going through played out before on a million other movies and TV shows. I find those characters much less interesting, though I was happy to see how Victor managed to bring the family together.


I honestly find the dynamics with Julia and Drew as immensely annoying. I just find them BOTH to be annoying personalities. I root for Hank. Screw the rest of them.

And Haddie? She was a basic stick in the mud until she announced she was gay. Suddenly she is a "person of interest" because she's gay? Makes me wonder if being gay is simply cast as a rivalry for attention away from Max (in the writing of the script) and a desperate ploy to keep Haddie relevant in the show.



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20 Apr 2014, 7:43 pm

I was wondering how things were going at Cornell for Haddie and when they were going to reintroduce her. :D
Remember how her high-school boyfriend was a really nice young black man, whom she met at the soup kitchen?
I was interested in seeing her again....though surprised to see her featured in the season finale. :P


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13 May 2014, 3:24 pm

I always did think, on the few occasions when I saw the show, that IMO Hank had his head on a lot straighter (by my lights) than the rest of the characters (and certainly straighter than poor Max's stupid f*****g mother-- really, she is going to seriously f**k that kid up if she doesn't quit it, based on what little I've seen).

Small wonder.

I wonder if the series finale will feature Hank leaving, with Max in tow?? I would tune in for that. I'd stand up and cheer.


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13 May 2014, 7:19 pm

I'm curious, what do you dislike so much about Max's mother? She rattled me at first, too.


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15 May 2014, 7:59 am

I don't watch the show (other than Max, it bores me, and I figure I get enough human drama IRL without tuning in for more). I prefer cartoons (I'm embarrassingly fond of Naruto, no matter how much I swear it's my oldest daughter's thing) and documentaries (and I must shamefacedly confess to having seen almost every episode of 19 Kids and Counting, except the latest season, which does not seem to be available on OnDemand). Hubby likes documentaries and stuff like DualSurvival and FaceOff. TBH, most of my TV viewing consists of kids' shows.

My aunt and cousins watch it. So does my MIL, so I catch bits and pieces here and there. I caught one clip where someone (I assume it was Max's mother) was bitching someone else (think it was Hank) out for mentioning the word "autism" in front of Max. I thought, "Jee-zus Christ, lady. He's not a little kid. And IT'S NOT A DIRTY WORD. Who are you really protecting?!"

This is the sum total of my reasons for disliking the character I assume is Max's mother.

I try not to form snap judgments about people IRL. Fictional characters, however, are due no such courtesy.


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23 May 2014, 10:55 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
OddDuckNash99 wrote:
I haven't watched the episode yet (I only know about it, because my mom is a huge Parenthood fan and tells me about all the Asperger's plotlines), but from what she was telling me, it seems like there's a major plot hole. She told me that Hank thought he had AS after Adam gave him a book about AS to understand Max after his meltdown. If Hank really has AS, why would he need a book to understand Max?! That just seems a bit "off" to me. I could see Adam having given Hank a book about Max right after Hank met Max for the first time and Hank thinking he had AS from that, but it just seems strange to me that somebody who "realizes" he has AS didn't understand why Max had a meltdown in the first place...


Hank was clueless about AS when he befriended Max and when Max had the meltdown. Max dad gave him the book after the meltdown. It was while reading the book that Hank first realized he might have Aspergers. No plot hole but a realistic portrayal of how a middle aged adult would find out.


This is me. I was clueless about AS. I literally had no idea it existed prior to my wife randomly starting watching the show and I got sucked in because I was intrigued by this kid Max and his Asperger's syndrome. Then Hank comes along, and the idea that it's possible for an adult to go through life without the traits being identified really struck a cord with me, especially after that particular conversation about why Hank felt he had Aspergers. Then I looked up the AQ test and took it after he was talking to the doctor about his score and the doctor told him it's fairly accurate indicator. I scored a 41. Then I started reading about AS, how it is expressed in adults, what are the symptoms, etc, and I was so overwhelmed, but also--

hopeful. Maybe I can find the answers now to why life has been so damned hard for me and find a place in this world that I just don't really understand.



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23 May 2014, 11:11 pm

mikassyna wrote:
EmeraldGreen wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
It was interesting to contrast the very NT relationship complications Julia and Drew are having with the much more familiar and (to me) realistic problems Hank is having.


Funny - I could relate much more to Hank's interpersonal problems, now that you mention it, than to Julia and Drew's - though we've all seen the type of separation struggles Julia and Drew are going through played out before on a million other movies and TV shows. I find those characters much less interesting, though I was happy to see how Victor managed to bring the family together.


I honestly find the dynamics with Julia and Drew as immensely annoying. I just find them BOTH to be annoying personalities. I root for Hank. Screw the rest of them.

And Haddie? She was a basic stick in the mud until she announced she was gay. Suddenly she is a "person of interest" because she's gay? Makes me wonder if being gay is simply cast as a rivalry for attention away from Max (in the writing of the script) and a desperate ploy to keep Haddie relevant in the show.


What do you mean by "stick in the mud?" I agree that her reappearance is odd. There was literally no reference of her all season and the now she shows up and is a lesbian. I mean, I think it's great to show her family accept her for that, but what's with the seemingly random appearance on the show? Did the writers forget about her or something?



mikassyna
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28 May 2014, 3:55 pm

perpetual_padawan wrote:
What do you mean by "stick in the mud?" I agree that her reappearance is odd. There was literally no reference of her all season and the now she shows up and is a lesbian. I mean, I think it's great to show her family accept her for that, but what's with the seemingly random appearance on the show? Did the writers forget about her or something?


She has no personality. I don't find her interesting. I don't find she has much character. Seems like she has little passion about anything. I can't get into people who don't get excited or intense about something. She's dull all over.

About Max's mother... she's just annoying. She tries to portray herself as a tough lady but I always feel she's on the verge of crying about something or getting overly emotional about something. Her voice wobbles. I hate the way the ends of her sentences lilt down. It makes me angry.