Aspartners: Questions

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http://forums.delphiforums.com/aspartne ... sg=13019.1

I tried to ask these ladies questions about certain inconsistencies about society. I tried to answer a couple of questions as well. What I was trying to do was discuss the social veneer itself and the belief system behind it and the inconsistent standards. One woman made it about her personal marriage. It was like we were discussing apples and oranges and she was very vulgar with me. I think I asked very valid questions. It was like I attacked her very soul. Was I wrong? Why?

In addition, they keep accusing aspies of making circular arguments. How do we do this? In what way do any of us use the conclusion to any of our arguments as a premise? None of these ladies ever dissect any of our arguments and show which are circular and why they are. They never do so for their husbands either and demonstrate in specifics.

This lady who says I always want to be right is incorrect. If my reasoning is shown to be fallacious I will alter my position. I will admit though I can't count the number of times I've been wrong about many subjects. Once I am shown the rationale and it makes sense to me again I will alter my position. Other aspies will do this as well when one shows how the argument is fallacious or if the contrary is proven true.

Here is the thing for me. When it looks like I am arguing I am simply trying to understand and get to a fundamental truth about something. I'm not trying to be right, I'm trying to figure why x is right and why and why non-x is wrong and why. Why am I wrong for doing this?

Such hostile attitudes. They have allowed some aspies in despite their rule just as long as they go by their rules.

I haven't been to that place in maybe two years but it has given me an inspiration for my stories I like to write.

Well, to update they have cleaned house. There are no more aspies there anymore.

I would love to read your stories. I remember you showed me one story you wrote. I enjoyed it.

Cubedemon,

I didn't read all of it, because it was pretty awful. I think they just want to whine and complain and do not want answers to their questions. Sometimes NTs want to "vent" to each other and have other people agree with them. These particular people do not seem to want real explanations which is why what you wrote upset them. They just want a place to complain and anything you type will look like BS or an excuse.

Why were you on there? It is awful from the perspective of a person on the spectrum.

Why was I on there? I felt like the questions one of them asked needed to be answered. For me, the urge was great.

The woman on #13 was very vulgar. They want love and kindness but I did not perceive any love and kindness from them. It was pure rage and hatred. From her response, the emotion I got from her was not just rage and hatred but contempt. If she had it her way, she would have us executed and she would execute us in the most painful way. She would be the one to want to do that.

What are their husbands like? Are they really as bad as they say? Are we aspies as bad as these women claim? I don't want to inadvertently hurt anyone.

These angry, hurt women are generalizing from their experiences and seeking community in shared perception. Much the same thing goes on here.

The site reminded me of a racist hate site: THEY are all like this, THEY are all like that.

This is not a psychological position you can engage with rationally. Don't bother.

“It is through justification of one's actions that a completely guiltless life is possible.” ― Ashly Lorenzana
Wow, that forum is a bit fruity, a place for venting and a breeding ground for all kinds of nasty!
I can only talk from personal experience... I do my best but its hard to tell when my husband is being a jerk or trying to understand something and it works the same for him too. Miscommunication has led to all sorts of needless negative experiences. Its difficult sometimes to be accommodating, especially when Im emotionally charged. Those women sound really hurt and angry, could the Aspie label be serving them with an 'easy out', vs honest self reflection “Everything you are used to, once done long enough, starts to seem natural, even though it might not be.”
― Julien Smith

As I said, I did not read all of the awfulness but I think the general gist is they married uncommunicative/unemotionally connected people who do not enjoy physical contact. So either their SOs were unusually skilled at pretending for the length of their courtship (which I cannot imagine that a critical mass of aspies would be good at), they knew what they were getting into and thought they could "change" the SO (which is just stupidity, IMO---why would you marry someone you have to change to make acceptable to you) or their SOs are not AS in the first place, just non-communicative and it makes them feel better to blame AS for their failed relationships.

In addition, women (the posters on that particular thread appeared to be women) are taught that spontaneous emotional gestures = love and so the absence of these things can be hurtful if that is what you have set your expectations up to be.

So some may have married thinking they were OK without these things, but over time, resented their absence. Maybe they had to deal with friends or family making snide remarks or making comparisons and that kind of thing, too.

Regardless, the amount of vitriol and generalized hate was very disturbing.

If you are asking these types of questions I doubt you are being hurtful. If you have any doubts you can always tell your wife that you saw that site and wanted to make sure you aren't accidentally doing anything hurtful. Communication is a good substitute for instinct. So if their are spontaneous gestures she is missing, she can tell you. (Some people expect their spouses to mindread, but I think generally a logical person married to an aspie would know that is not a fair expectation even if it seems more romantic.)

*That site does not seem to be an acknowledgement of the existence of snuggly-seeking aspies presumably b/c their spouses and SOs would be less likely to be on there. That site will primarily appeal to people with failed/failing/unhappy relationships so that is the reason for all the cray-cray bitterness.

http://theproblemwithdating.wordpress.c ... a-feeling/

What do you think of this? My pastor preached on this. What he said like this article says is emotions can accompany love but love is something one has to work on. It can be hard work but the reward can be worth it. I have worked hard with my NT wife to meet her half way. It is not easy. We have had our major arguments. She has done a lot for me and I have done a lot for her. When one gets married and if one has children one's life is not fully his or her own.

It is not like snow white and prince charming. There is a part that comes after happily ever after that is never mentioned in the Disney movies. Sometimes I do wonder if we married to soon. The thing is I did not know about my Asperger's until I reached the age of 29. I thought I knew more than I did. With the knowledge and wisdom I have now about relationships I wish we would've sought better counseling from those who had more knowledge and wisdom than we both did.

Love is a decision that has to be thought through. One has to have basic skills including being able to get and keep a job. One has to develop a better character first and determine what that is. One has to be able to be honest with one you will marry and one has to show the good and the bad. For example, this is what my pastor did. He was the type to leave his clothing on the furniture in a messy way. He showed his past fiancé this. He showed her various parts of himself both good and bad. Some people do try to conceal a part of who they are and this is an issue. He felt the decision for her to marry him was hers to make alone and she needed to be able to make a decision based upon knowing all of him not just one part he chooses to present.

To do this, one has to know and understand himself as well. He has to truthfully be aware of who and what he or she is and how he or she works. For me, I did not know about the Asperger's aspect until I turned 29. Even then, it has taken me a long time to even accept that my thinking and communication style is deviant from the norm in an extreme way. Self-awareness is one part of a key to a successful marriage. It may be possible that one is not compatible with someone. I wish I knew this when I was younger.

If and when you child finds someone when he grows up please impart this unto him.

I think like in m/any relationship/s, these angry women are so angry because they somehow felt deceived. I think it is quite typical that people put their best feet forward in a relationship, and it is possible their mates did this in the beginning with great effort, and then stopped after the relationship got made permanent because it's not easy to keep up such great efforts. On the other hand, it is quite possible that their wives could see problems in the beginning, but in the early stages of courtship and rose-colored glasses, overlooked certain behaviors hoping they would change. These are common mistakes in many relationships, not just Aspie ones. Usually it is the fault of both parties when a relationship doesn't work out, but the blame game is all too common and easy, rather than looking at one's own personal failings and choices. The women should take a hard look at themselves as well, and why did they decide to marry these men to begin with. Their reasons are probably not so different than they might like to imagine.

Nice article. The honeymoon phase, is but a phase But there are more phases to follow, more meaningful ones too. Maintaining a relationship does require commitment from both parties, it is possible to learn to love the person youve found, (I am speaking of course about the right person). I think the media have distorted reality for many people, that plus consumerism plants many unrealistic expectations and cheapens the small things. If your expectations are not met repeatedly, then you will be unhappy, perhaps both parties can be wounded through ignorance, for want of a better word.

I agree with a good amount of it. I do believe that the part that you added about your pastor talking about a prospective partner needing to see the real (complete) you is also important. I think there are some fundamental chemical attractions that need to be there, but also you have to have a fundamental compatibility. In addition, I think both people need a kind of maturity to be able to understand how they communicate. Partners should not expect "true love" to mean that they can (and are expected to) read each others minds.

The communication part is the hardest, I think, even for NTs. One of the good things about knowing ones abilities and lack of same is to learn how to compensate, and when you must make a special effort. A self-aware aspie can do just as well or even better than an NT who expects and relies on magical mindreading. I don't expect my husband to know what I am thinking and I clarify what I am saying when I need to, and he does the same for me. (I am more aspie than him, but he has what I call Aspie-Light)

Some NTs expect the partner to somehow instinctively know what is needed or somehow it means it is not true love or they don't care.

How much work you have to do, other than communication depends on how much compatibility there is at the outset, and also how each person matures as they age. The issue with marrying young can be that there is so much future growth to be experienced, so I think in many cases it is easier to get out of synch. Not always, but often enough, though it can happen when you marry later, too.

Also, getting married b/c you feel pressure to is also bad. Some people care more about the status update (being able to refer to oneself as married) than who they select. Some people get married b/c they are insecure and think if they do not marry the first available willing person that they might end up alone.

I don't know if my son will opt to get married or not. Right now he is not showing a lot of signs of being able to compromise, (another necessary skill) but he is so young, still. I hope if he does choose to get married he will choose someone that suits him.

Exactly, and the pastor mentioned that as well. He said the same thing you said.



I guess I am a bit more aspie than you are because you seem to know how to answer my questions very well and you're having to break things down to me a lot. This magical mindreading comes from romance novels, Disney and shows like Twilight. None of them are reflective of how reality and human nature works.



Yes, I hate it.



Exactly. There are unknown unknowns as well.



I felt that as well but I can assure you it is not a good thing. This means you're using another person to attempt to try to complete you. It causes major issues unto it's own. You don't need another person to complete you.



I have major difficulties with it myself and I am having to really learn do it on the fly as we are married. Does compromise apply to the fraction problem your son had when he wanted to do it in the reduced form? Their demands still make no sense. How can one compromise on something that makes no sense?

If you notice, I do a lot of editing on my posts and sometimes I still manage to say things wrong. It is easier for me in writing and when calm. I do not do that great all the time verbally b/c I cannot see the words and edit them. If I am upset and my brain is all fogged up, I sometimes can't get things out at all, much less well.

I completely agree about the Disney princesses and rom coms and all that. It gives people an unrealistic fantasy that appears socially sanctioned and people then feel like failures for falling short if they do not realize it is complete fantasy.






The thing with the fractions could be viewed as compromise the way the teacher and I approached it. We were easing him into writing the correct simplified fraction but getting him to circle its equivalent unsimplified version in the multiple choices as well. (The compromise was do it the right way, but to circle the imperfect way b/c it is equivalent and it is the most accurate choice that is given.)

The district decided to mix in, while observing him, and insist on the authoritarian approach of doing it their way. That was control, not compromise at that point.

In a relationship, compromise looks different, of course. It is compromising on little things, sometimes like allowing your spouse to set the room temperature warmer than you like, so she won't be too warm, or big things like deciding where to live, when you both have different preferences. If it gets to a point of "bean counting" then something is off and there is not the feeling of trying to do right by one another. It doesn't mean always being the one to give in, either. It is a tough balance and it get be very subjective.

Oh no, I had forgotten about as partners until now, it is the true cesspool of the internetz.

What I saw on those pages was a lot of women who married people with the expectation that those people would turn out to be different people than they knew. They intended to foster change in their spouses.

This is a terrible basis for any relationship. "I'll be your friend if you change your personality and live as a new person."

What I see in a number of those posts is a sense of shock that the guy turned out to be exactly what they already knew.

It's hard to have much sympathy for that position.

There is another set of voices that is people who have tried very hard to accommodate difficult demands from their aspie husbands and are now trying to rediscover their independent identities. Unfortunately, if predictably, they are trying to build themselves up by tearing their ex husbands down. A sad, brutal approach to healing yourself that may create additional damage even as it seems superficially successful.

The problem is the social myths behind marriage in the first place. I have a somewhat romantic view of a "good relationship" and feel that the people should be intensely good, intimate friends before marriage. The person you marry should be a person you want to hang out with a lot. Share the stuff you are into and the pleasure you take from life, etc. And you should care about their well-being, their pleasure and enthusiasms, too. If you have those things, I sincerely believe that you can have a better relationship than most neurotypical married people do.

Maybe I have to do some compensatory things that an NT would not have to do, but I am not selfish or mean spirited which seems to be the image a lot of the as partner's women hold.

A sad, bitter place.