Now pro-choice
19 Jan 2014, 1:52 pm
Mamselle wrote:
American wrote:
Mamselle wrote:
I believe the indisputable fact that you cannot get pregnant means your opinion on this subject means dick. So keep yours in your pants and you won't have to worry about abortion.
Mamselle wrote:
I have zero interest in what some guy who's never going to be pregnant thinks.
This is an ad hominem argument. One's ability to get pregnant has nothing to do with the soundness of one's argument against abortion. It is not the fault of any man that he cannot get pregnant unlike how, in 99% of abortions, it is the fault of the woman that she got pregnant in the first place. If you don't want to be pregnant, don't have sexual intercourse. How is that so hard to understand? Abstinence is the most morally proper, most effective and cheapest form of birth control. So use it.
She didn't get pregnant by herself, moron. If you don't want your woman having to get an abortion, keep your dick in your pants.
If you had a good argument you would not be personally insulting me in violation of the forum rules. A woman who doesn't want to be pregnant can abstain from sex. If she choices not to and gets pregnant, she has made a choice. By prohibiting abortion, no one is denying her the opportunity to choose whether to be pregnant or not and the "pro-choice" crowd wouldn't base their whole philosophy on the fantasy that prohibiting abortion is "anti-choice" if they had a legitimate reason for their pro-abortion mindset.
19 Jan 2014, 3:35 pm
modcom77 wrote:
Give me proof of this. You cannot argue that this is true without proof. I personally am against euthanizing a person without their consent. Also, you so-called "pro-lifers" bomb abortion clinics to further your "cause"! The irony amazes me.
Articles like this come to mind; it horrifies me people actually believe its OK to murder children.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/02 ... t-persons/
As for bombing abortion clinics, I never have done so, nor do I ever intend to. Such behavior would result in nothing but bringing me down to the same despicable level as those who demand that abortion be legalized across the board.
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19 Jan 2014, 3:41 pm
Quote:
Articles like this come to mind; it horrifies me people actually believe its OK to murder children.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/02 ... t-persons/
As for bombing abortion clinics, I never have done so, nor do I ever intend to. Such behavior would result in nothing but bringing me down to the same despicable level as those who demand that abortion be legalized across the board.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/02 ... t-persons/
As for bombing abortion clinics, I never have done so, nor do I ever intend to. Such behavior would result in nothing but bringing me down to the same despicable level as those who demand that abortion be legalized across the board.
While I am morally against infanticide, I completely agree with their logic.
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19 Jan 2014, 3:56 pm
Moviefan2k4 wrote:
modcom77 wrote:
Give me proof of this. You cannot argue that this is true without proof. I personally am against euthanizing a person without their consent. Also, you so-called "pro-lifers" bomb abortion clinics to further your "cause"! The irony amazes me.
Articles like this come to mind; it horrifies me people actually believe its OK to murder children.http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/02 ... t-persons/
As for bombing abortion clinics, I never have done so, nor do I ever intend to. Such behavior would result in nothing but bringing me down to the same despicable level as those who demand that abortion be legalized across the board.
Oh look, Glenn Beck's website going into hysterics over something that two Australian "ethicists" wrote and isn't even hosted on the website in their citation anymore.
As for "ethicists" I've looked all over for some kind of certifying board that evaluates someone's credentials and licenses them to be legitimate ethical examiners, and found nothing. So it almost looks like any jackass can call themselves an ethicist and the title will stick if your critics want you to sound more important than you actually are.
20 Jan 2014, 5:01 pm
@Kurgan, two points:
first, I think that you're a little naive about the degree of grinding poverty afflicting some portions of the US population, and the number of options those people have. Consider, for example, that a lot of the people who didn't evacuate for Hurricane Katrina *could not* do so, having no vehicles, no money for busses, and being unable to walk fast enough to get out of the way.
second, men have just as much right to remove an entity that is using their body without their permission as women do.
20 Jan 2014, 5:46 pm
LKL wrote:
@Kurgan, two points:
first, I think that you're a little naive about the degree of grinding poverty afflicting some portions of the US population, and the number of options those people have. Consider, for example, that a lot of the people who didn't evacuate for Hurricane Katrina *could not* do so, having no vehicles, no money for busses, and being unable to walk fast enough to get out of the way.
second, men have just as much right to remove an entity that is using their body without their permission as women do.
first, I think that you're a little naive about the degree of grinding poverty afflicting some portions of the US population, and the number of options those people have. Consider, for example, that a lot of the people who didn't evacuate for Hurricane Katrina *could not* do so, having no vehicles, no money for busses, and being unable to walk fast enough to get out of the way.
second, men have just as much right to remove an entity that is using their body without their permission as women do.
The only affected human that has no responsibility at all (except in most rape cases) for the existence of that entity is the entity itself. That entity is also the one that gets punished the most (not that abortions are pleasant for the mother either I'm sure). That seems unfair. So again, I think it comes down to personhood.
21 Jan 2014, 5:43 am
Doesn't matter if it's responsible or not. It doesn't get to use a human's body against their will.
Hell, even if the woman had consented, by sex, to get pregnant (which I do NOT agree with), she has the right to withdraw her consent.
If, theoretically, some innocent person went into a coma, and the only way to save them was to physically attach them to another human being (while they were unconscious, and thus unable to say yes or no), such that the other person's organs filtered their blood, excreted their waste, etc - and I agreed to take part in a lottery for who would play host to this unconscious person, and lost the lottery - I could withdraw my consent at any point.
Also, wrt. an earlier post about organ donation: no, it's NOT likely to be fatal, nor permanently debilitating. People can live just fine with only one kidney, with a huge chunk of their liver missing, with scars from skin donations, and blood an bone marrow donation amount to temporary pains only. The pain of marrow donation is fairly severe, true, but it isn't as bad as childbirth, is quickly over, and literally saves lives.
21 Jan 2014, 5:48 am
LKL wrote:
@Kurgan, two points:
first, I think that you're a little naive about the degree of grinding poverty afflicting some portions of the US population, and the number of options those people have. Consider, for example, that a lot of the people who didn't evacuate for Hurricane Katrina *could not* do so, having no vehicles, no money for busses, and being unable to walk fast enough to get out of the way.
first, I think that you're a little naive about the degree of grinding poverty afflicting some portions of the US population, and the number of options those people have. Consider, for example, that a lot of the people who didn't evacuate for Hurricane Katrina *could not* do so, having no vehicles, no money for busses, and being unable to walk fast enough to get out of the way.
Usually, a hurricane escalates a lot quicker than 12 weeks.
Quote:
second, men have just as much right to remove an entity that is using their body without their permission as women do.
If, by any means, a man could get pregnant, society would tell him to man the f*ck up. My point is, whether or not a man pays for his wrongdoing for 18 years is entirely up to the woman to decide; a man can't disown the fetus even though the woman chooses to carry it. If I knock someone up and never speak to them again, I risk paying for it until my early 40's because I have no saying in the matter.
21 Jan 2014, 6:37 am
Kurgan wrote:
LKL wrote:
@Kurgan, two points:
first, I think that you're a little naive about the degree of grinding poverty afflicting some portions of the US population, and the number of options those people have. Consider, for example, that a lot of the people who didn't evacuate for Hurricane Katrina *could not* do so, having no vehicles, no money for busses, and being unable to walk fast enough to get out of the way.
first, I think that you're a little naive about the degree of grinding poverty afflicting some portions of the US population, and the number of options those people have. Consider, for example, that a lot of the people who didn't evacuate for Hurricane Katrina *could not* do so, having no vehicles, no money for busses, and being unable to walk fast enough to get out of the way.
Usually, a hurricane escalates a lot quicker than 12 weeks.
The point is, it's really f*****g hard for very poor people to make arrangements sometimes. A lot of the people in LA died because they couldn't do so; most women seeking abortion won't die, and they have longer than a few days to prepare, but it's still a hell of a lot harder than you seem to think that it is.
Quote:
Quote:
second, men have just as much right to remove an entity that is using their body without their permission as women do.
If, by any means, a man could get pregnant, society would tell him to man the f*ck up. My point is, whether or not a man pays for his wrongdoing for 18 years is entirely up to the woman to decide; a man can't disown the fetus even though the woman chooses to carry it. If I knock someone up and never speak to them again, I risk paying for it until my early 40's because I have no saying in the matter.
If men could get pregnant, there would be franchise abortion clinics on every corner, like Starbucks. The reason that women can have abortions and men cannot, is because pregnancy is usually a condition of a woman, and not of a man. Abortion is the artificial ending of a pregnancy.
21 Jan 2014, 8:22 am
Quote:
If, theoretically, some innocent person went into a coma, and the only way to save them was to physically attach them to another human being (while they were unconscious, and thus unable to say yes or no), such that the other person's organs filtered their blood, excreted their waste, etc - and I agreed to take part in a lottery for who would play host to this unconscious person, and lost the lottery - I could withdraw my consent at any point.
No you couldn't, not legitimately. Or one could say the same about any agreement - "I promised x, but I've changed my mind, nanananana." You don't get to do that. Once you've given your consent for something to happen, you can't withdraw it (barring circumstances which impinge on your ability to make that happen) until it has happened. Or maybe I should sell you something, take your money, and never give you the item you just paid for, because I withdrew my consent to the transaction after you paid me? Or maybe I could promise to provide housing for you for a year, in exchange for your work, and then turf you out onto the streets after a few days because I've changed my mind?
21 Jan 2014, 3:16 pm
LKL wrote:
The point is, it's really f***ing hard for very poor people to make arrangements sometimes. A lot of the people in LA died because they couldn't do so; most women seeking abortion won't die, and they have longer than a few days to prepare, but it's still a hell of a lot harder than you seem to think that it is.
If you can afford to but yourself out there and have sex, you also have 500 dollars for an early abortion.
Quote:
If men could get pregnant, there would be franchise abortion clinics on every corner, like Starbucks. The reason that women can have abortions and men cannot, is because pregnancy is usually a condition of a woman, and not of a man. Abortion is the artificial ending of a pregnancy.
Just like society is so much more tolerant of mental illness in men than in women? A 40-something man on disability benefits because a work related injury (eg. an Iraq veteran with PTSD) that prevents him from doing his job is a deadbeat; a 20 year old woman on disability for being misdiagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome is "courageous for facing another day".
I'm not saying that men should force women to keep a fetus or force her to have an abortion, but a man should be allowed to disown a fetus early in the trimester.
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21 Jan 2014, 4:21 pm
Her body her choice as men it is none of our business whether she wants the baby or not women are not property and have individual thoughts and choices.
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21 Jan 2014, 5:40 pm
AspieOtaku wrote:
Her body her choice as men it is none of our business whether she wants the baby or not women are not property and have individual thoughts and choices.
Unborn humans aren't necessarily property either. You need to prove that the unborn do not deserve human rights before making the women's rights argument.
21 Jan 2014, 6:36 pm
UndeadToaster wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Her body her choice as men it is none of our business whether she wants the baby or not women are not property and have individual thoughts and choices.
Unborn humans aren't necessarily property either. You need to prove that the unborn do not deserve human rights before making the women's rights argument.
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21 Jan 2014, 6:37 pm
http://www.policymic.com/articles/79575 ... c-violence
http://www.policymic.com/articles/79383 ... -abortions
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