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AspieOtaku
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21 Jan 2014, 6:36 pm

UndeadToaster wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Her body her choice as men it is none of our business whether she wants the baby or not women are not property and have individual thoughts and choices.

Unborn humans aren't necessarily property either. You need to prove that the unborn do not deserve human rights before making the women's rights argument.
A tape worm isnt property either a womans body is her terretory, the baby is the tennantt and ahe can evict whoever she sees fit.


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Misslizard
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21 Jan 2014, 6:37 pm

AspieOtaku
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21 Jan 2014, 7:14 pm

Here is how I see it a womans body is her own property nobody elses she is the land lord of her property the fetus is just on a 9 month lease rent free if she feels she can no longer support it she can evict it at any time.


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LKL
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22 Jan 2014, 1:58 am

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If, theoretically, some innocent person went into a coma, and the only way to save them was to physically attach them to another human being (while they were unconscious, and thus unable to say yes or no), such that the other person's organs filtered their blood, excreted their waste, etc - and I agreed to take part in a lottery for who would play host to this unconscious person, and lost the lottery - I could withdraw my consent at any point.

No you couldn't, not legitimately. Or one could say the same about any agreement - "I promised x, but I've changed my mind, nanananana." You don't get to do that. Once you've given your consent for something to happen, you can't withdraw it (barring circumstances which impinge on your ability to make that happen) until it has happened. Or maybe I should sell you something, take your money, and never give you the item you just paid for, because I withdrew my consent to the transaction after you paid me? Or maybe I could promise to provide housing for you for a year, in exchange for your work, and then turf you out onto the streets after a few days because I've changed my mind?

Yes, I can, because slavery does not exist in this country, nor forced association. If I promise housing in exchange for work, then either party can decide to end the association; you're basically claiming that the landlord would have no recourse if they suddenly found out that their 'employee' was brewing meth in their bedroom. If it's a legal contract, there might be recompense owed: if someone gave me money to do something, for example, I would have to give the money back. But If I had promised to sell and then changed my mind and given back the money, they couldn't then steal it from me; if I had promised to do something and then given the money back, they couldn't then threaten me with a gun to force me to do it anyway.



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22 Jan 2014, 2:08 am

Kurgan wrote:
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The point is, it's really f***ing hard for very poor people to make arrangements sometimes. A lot of the people in LA died because they couldn't do so; most women seeking abortion won't die, and they have longer than a few days to prepare, but it's still a hell of a lot harder than you seem to think that it is.

If you can afford to but yourself out there and have sex, you also have 500 dollars for an early abortion.

I don't know how it is where you are, but sex in the US is usually pretty cheap. In fact, the less birth control you use, the cheaper it is. And, newsflash: even very, very poor people get married, and then have sex, sometimes.
If this whole contraception mandate stays in Obamacare after the SCOTUS challenge, maybe even those poor married people will be able to use birth control in the future.

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If men could get pregnant, there would be franchise abortion clinics on every corner, like Starbucks. The reason that women can have abortions and men cannot, is because pregnancy is usually a condition of a woman, and not of a man. Abortion is the artificial ending of a pregnancy.

Just like society is so much more tolerant of mental illness in men than in women? A 40-something man on disability benefits because a work related injury (eg. an Iraq veteran with PTSD) that prevents him from doing his job is a deadbeat; a 20 year old woman on disability for being misdiagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome is "courageous for facing another day".

Uh, you do know that CFS isn't a mental illness, right?
http://www.cdc.gov/cfs/toolkit/index.html
Also, you will never catch me saying that someone with PTSD is a 'deadbeat.' Rather, you'll see me raging at the VA for their inadequate care of veterans (who, as often as not, entered the military in the first place on the economic draft and then find themselves chewed up and spit out by the system that they thought was giving them a chance at the middle class in exchange for a brutal 4 years of training, combat, and fear, if not actual physical maiming). For that matter, I haven't ever heard anyone call someone with PTSD a 'deadbeat.'
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I'm not saying that men should force women to keep a fetus or force her to have an abortion, but a man should be allowed to disown a fetus early in the trimester.

I'm actually not entirely against that, in the first trimester. I've heard a lot of feminists speak against it, but I haven't been entirely convinced. If he makes some sort of permanent, legal disownment and breaks all ties from the woman, and pays for half of the cost of an abortion (whether she uses it for that or not), it might prevent some naive girls from thinking, 'he'll come around once he sees the kid.' It would probably increase the number of abortions, though; you ok with that?



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22 Jan 2014, 4:50 am

I dont get your comparisons about landlords contracts or whatever. A contract is done between two person, agreeing each other on the contract. That includes terms for cancelling the contract.

While an baby neither did agree to an contract, nor to the terms of cancelling the contract, so the comparison to landlords contract are simply stupid.

Its a human life, and just like every child, it not an ownage to anyone, including the parents. A parent is as well not allowed to do with his kids, as he wants, as if it was an thing that belonged to him, but is forced to act in the best way for the child or riscs getting in troubles.

Beside some fanatics, the majority of people agree on each other, that the possibility of abortion should be existing. But just as much agree on each other, that ripping apart the body of an feeling human being with a working nerve system, is an horrible torture, and that doing so on purpose is an mad cruelty, which does not suddenly become otherwhise only because of that human still being in someone elses body. Thats as if someone said, that it would not be of care to other people, if they would rip apart their already vorn children, and that others should not bother about that, because of them living in their house, so they are supposed to be allowed to act with their children as they want. O_o

Beside some really outdated fanatic countries, the possibility of abortion is existing in most wester countries, and when it comes to whining about the mostly existing 12 weeks limit, then Sorry, but if doing the abortion was not that important for the mother to do until the 12th week, then its not other peoples fault for her being lazy about that. Should they should have come to her house every day 5 times and push her for caring for her own abortion, until she is finally doing it? I think a person old enough to get pregnant, is as well able to do an phone call and contact a hospital, doing that service, within twelve weeks.



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22 Jan 2014, 5:03 am

It's a good thing that the vast majority of abortions don't rip apart feeling creatures, then.

wrt. a 12 week limit, lots of birth defects aren't detectable until much later; lots of pregnancy-related health problems don't show up until the 3rd trimester. And, again, you're displaying some ignorance about the poverty and lack of access to abortion providers that a lot of people face in the US.



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24 Jan 2014, 10:30 am

http://www.policymic.com/articles/79885 ... -s-libidos


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Schneekugel
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24 Jan 2014, 10:36 am

LKL wrote:
It's a good thing that the vast majority of abortions don't rip apart feeling creatures, then.

wrt. a 12 week limit, lots of birth defects aren't detectable until much later; lots of pregnancy-related health problems don't show up until the 3rd trimester. And, again, you're displaying some ignorance about the poverty and lack of access to abortion providers that a lot of people face in the US.


Dont know about your countries laws, but around here the 12 week limit is for fun abortions. If there are medical causes, then abortion can be done whenever.