questioning my gender: not sure what gender i want to be

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bumble
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23 Jan 2014, 9:59 am

zer0netgain wrote:
I don't know if anyone with AS really "feels" like their gender.

I'm sure a lot of NT women don't like the "gifts" that gender comes with.

I envy women because they (overall) have it better than men in how they are treated. No performance expectations, allowed to fail if they can't do something without it being a social stigma, given preference in a lot of things because they would rather have a woman for the opportunity. The list goes on.

Do I want to have a sex change for all of that? No.

Even though I don't fit in with the guys and have a better chance fitting in with the girls. I am what I am, and neither therapy or surgery will truly change that.


Are you joking?

Women, in todays society, are expected to want to do other peoples cooking and laundry and wear make up and uncomfortable clothing and stupid high heels and spend all afternoon at beauty salons loading their system up with chemicals to look pretty and shave in places I don't want to shave because I prefer things to be a little more natural (try finding a man interested in a woman with hair in certain regions these days...I refuse to remove it! I refuse!! !! !! Legs and armpits I will shave but not there!! !! !) and then I am expected to sit around making chitty chat all day.

ARRrgghhhhhh

Arrrghhhhhhhhh

ARrrrrrgggghhhhhhhhh

Which is why I say, I am happy to have female body parts (they are not unpleasurable things to have) but my personality is neither male nor female. In other words don't expect anything of me based on my gender or physical sex. I do things because I like them not because they are gender specific.



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23 Jan 2014, 10:24 am

I feel agender. I don't identify with either gender.
Counselors have made me do examinations in the past and they found out I have the "extreme-male brain".
I am often told I have behaviours that are "guy-like" and that I am not "feminine".
I remember that when I was 8-9 I identified as a boy but it passed.
I remember that before that age and after that, I mean from 3 to 7 yo and then from 10 to 11 yo I identified as a female but then I was bullied a lot for not being feminine by my female classmates so after some around the age of 12 I started to feel like if I didn't belong to either gender.
I still feel that way.
About sexuality, I am pretty unsure as well. My sexuality has had swings. There was a time during which I felt attracted by females, then by boys, then by both, then by neither. I guess that's because of adolescence.
Now I am 16 and am almost completely attracted by guys. I think thid is because of all the female bullies who harassed me. I think I could never be in a sexual relationship with a girl because of that because I'd feel that my breasts are too small, that I am too little feminine, and other stuff like that that would make me feel uncomfortable. But maybe a romantic relationship would be ok even if with a person of the same gender.
I don't know how I feel about my body. I don't even care anymore. I wear baggy clothes and my boobs are too small to be noticed so even if I wore skimpy clothes nothing would be shown. So there's no real difference, skimpy clothes are only good for a sensory overload and meltdown for me. And to attract people's attention, that I do not want.



bumble
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23 Jan 2014, 10:29 am

Why do things or activities or ways of thinking etc have to be male or female? Can they not just be things that people do, think, enjoy regardless of what their physical sex is?

I dislike the use of gender roles.



CockneyRebel
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23 Jan 2014, 10:43 am

I've always felt like a male trapped in a female body. I've always wished to be a man. I know that I'm a man on the inside. I don't know what's confusing about that. I'm not confused about myself, nor am I gender confused. If I was gender confused, I wouldn't be concrete about it. If people are confused about me, all the more power to me I guess. If I had the money and I didn't look like a slightly scaled down version of big, strong, healthy Mick Avory of The Kinks, I would have gotten the operation a long time ago when I was working full time in a factory in the Mid-Late 90s. People who aren't mainstream end up calling themselves what they end up looking like, and I'm no exception. I'm not a feminist, I have real gender issues.


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Last edited by CockneyRebel on 23 Jan 2014, 10:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

zer0netgain
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23 Jan 2014, 10:45 am

bumble wrote:
Are you joking?

Women, in todays society, are expected to want to do other peoples cooking and laundry and wear make up and uncomfortable clothing and stupid high heels and spend all afternoon at beauty salons loading their system up with chemicals to look pretty and shave in places I don't want to shave because I prefer things to be a little more natural (try finding a man interested in a woman with hair in certain regions these days...I refuse to remove it! I refuse!! !! !! Legs and armpits I will shave but not there!! !! !) and then I am expected to sit around making chitty chat all day.

ARRrgghhhhhh

Arrrghhhhhhhhh

ARrrrrrgggghhhhhhhhh

Which is why I say, I am happy to have female body parts (they are not unpleasurable things to have) but my personality is neither male nor female. In other words don't expect anything of me based on my gender or physical sex. I do things because I like them not because they are gender specific.


Ah....perhaps it's just a matter of thinking the "grass is greener."

It's a big reason why I despise feminists who think men have it better.

Trust me, it's only DIFFERENT...not necessarily BETTER.



wetsail
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23 Jan 2014, 1:36 pm

ZombieBrideXD wrote:
what does this mean?


More than anything, it likely means you need more data to sift through to find the truth.

No one else in the entire world can tell you what gender you are, or help you find it out. It's something you need to find for yourself, and I recommend doing as much internet research as possible on alternative gender identities and a good deal of experimentation, sexual and otherwise (assuming you're of-age, of course), to determine what you feel most comfortable with.

And beyond that, don't worry too much about applying labels. Ultimately, "gender" is just a construct relating to how you place yourself in the social-cultural scheme of things. You'll always be "you," and like the sexual things that "you" like - nothing right and nothing wrong about that, just things that you enjoy, and things that you don't.

Don't be in a rush to find out. Take your time, learn about yourself the best you can, and the answer will come to you.



wetsail
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23 Jan 2014, 1:42 pm

bumble wrote:
Why do things or activities or ways of thinking etc have to be male or female? Can they not just be things that people do, think, enjoy regardless of what their physical sex is?

I dislike the use of gender roles.


As do I, and they're a disservice to the greater, broader, weirder human experience that exists beyond the gender binary, but it's one of those things that's hard for a lot of people to think about, just because they aren't used to it, and actively resist becoming used to it.

You have to expect and understand that most people in the world will gender activities simply because it's easier for them mentally, and will avoid thinking and understanding because it's hard. It doesn't make them more right - if anything, it makes them less right - but it gives the fight for a more diverse understanding of gender identity a great deal of worth, and a great deal of strength and tenacity to those that take it up.

Where there is ignorance, there can be strength against it. Don't give up the fight until everyone understands.



gretchyn
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23 Jan 2014, 7:35 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
bumble wrote:
Are you joking?

Women, in todays society, are expected to want to do other peoples cooking and laundry and wear make up and uncomfortable clothing and stupid high heels and spend all afternoon at beauty salons loading their system up with chemicals to look pretty and shave in places I don't want to shave because I prefer things to be a little more natural (try finding a man interested in a woman with hair t in certain regions these days...I refuse to remove it! I refuse!! !! !! Legs and armpits I will shave but not there!! !! !) and then I am expected to sit around making chitty chat all day.

ARRrgghhhhhh

Arrrghhhhhhhhh

ARrrrrrgggghhhhhhhhh

Which is why I say, I am happy to have female body parts (they are not unpleasurable things to have) but my personality is neither male nor female. In other words don't expect anything of me based on my gender or physical sex. I do things because I like them not because they are gender specific.


Ah....perhaps it's just a matter of thinking the "grass is greener."

It's a big reason why I despise feminists who think men have it better.

Trust me, it's only DIFFERENT...not necessarily BETTER.


I was just about to reply with a big LOL because of the reasons (plus more) that bumble mentioned. By the way, bumble, I don't even shave my legs or armpits, let alone "down there."

I completely agree with the statement that no one necessarily has it better... Just different. There is a spectacularly lopsided set of expectations for women, though.



Callista
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23 Jan 2014, 8:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
ZombieBrideXD wrote:
questioning my gender: not sure what gender i want to be

Do you really think that you get to choose?
Not really, no. Even people who are genderqueer aren't really choosing to flip from one to the other, or have traits of both, or whatever.

But I read ZombieBride's words as more like, "I'm not sure what I want." Like, not sure how you feel about your gender.


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CockneyRebel
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23 Jan 2014, 9:35 pm

Callista wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ZombieBrideXD wrote:
questioning my gender: not sure what gender i want to be

Do you really think that you get to choose?
Not really, no. Even people who are genderqueer aren't really choosing to flip from one to the other, or have traits of both, or whatever.

But I read ZombieBride's words as more like, "I'm not sure what I want." Like, not sure how you feel about your gender.


People choose their genders by having sex change operations all the time.


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Tuttle
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23 Jan 2014, 10:04 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
Callista wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ZombieBrideXD wrote:
questioning my gender: not sure what gender i want to be

Do you really think that you get to choose?
Not really, no. Even people who are genderqueer aren't really choosing to flip from one to the other, or have traits of both, or whatever.

But I read ZombieBride's words as more like, "I'm not sure what I want." Like, not sure how you feel about your gender.


People choose their genders by having sex change operations all the time.


That's choosing their gender presentation, not choosing their gender.



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23 Jan 2014, 10:28 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
bumble wrote:
Are you joking?

Women, in todays society, are expected to want to do other peoples cooking and laundry and wear make up and uncomfortable clothing and stupid high heels and spend all afternoon at beauty salons loading their system up with chemicals to look pretty and shave in places I don't want to shave because I prefer things to be a little more natural (try finding a man interested in a woman with hair in certain regions these days...I refuse to remove it! I refuse!! !! !! Legs and armpits I will shave but not there!! !! !) and then I am expected to sit around making chitty chat all day.

ARRrgghhhhhh

Arrrghhhhhhhhh

ARrrrrrgggghhhhhhhhh

Which is why I say, I am happy to have female body parts (they are not unpleasurable things to have) but my personality is neither male nor female. In other words don't expect anything of me based on my gender or physical sex. I do things because I like them not because they are gender specific.


Ah....perhaps it's just a matter of thinking the "grass is greener."

It's a big reason why I despise feminists who think men have it better.

Trust me, it's only DIFFERENT...not necessarily BETTER.


Actually, statistically speaking, it's better for men. And don't worry, I'm pretty sure feminists don't think you're much of a prize, either.



Callista
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23 Jan 2014, 10:29 pm

Better for men, statistically, but that doesn't mean that being male has no drawbacks! Just kick a suitably deserving man in the junk and see one of them for yourself. Socially, compare the ease with which a woman can "get away with" wearing a suit, to the ease with which a man can "get away with" wearing a dress.

Gender can get confusing to talk about. I think we need to agree on some vocab...

Physical sex: What you look like.
Genetic sex: What your chromosomes are.
Gender identity: What your brain and personality are--i.e., your true gender.
Gender presentation: What gender you're displaying socially.
Sexual orientation: Whether you're attracted to girls, guys, both, anybody, or nobody.

So, if you're trans, your physical and genetic sex (probably) don't match your gender, and it sucks because you're being forced into a gender presentation that doesn't match your identity. You can change your physical sex with hormones or surgery or make-up; you can change your gender presentation by changing your clothes and your name. But you can't change your gender identity, because it's been fixed and unchangeable for a very long time--probably since before you were born.


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Last edited by Callista on 23 Jan 2014, 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Verdandi
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23 Jan 2014, 10:33 pm

I don't think surgeries are choosing their presentation. Most trans people choose their presentation well before they get surgery (if they ever do).

Technically speaking anyone can choose any gender presentation they like, it's just that people are often not likely to be happy with gender presentation that clashes with their sense of self.

The thing about Fnord's post is, though, that I've seen him make microaggressive and negative comments about trans people in other threads, so I suspect the possibility that he might be questioning the validity of being trans and/or possibly having a nonbinary gender than strictly questioning whether anyone can choose their gender. I could be wrong of course.

I'm not marking Fnord out as a singular case. A lot of people on this forum say negative, prejudiced, microaggressive, aggressive, passive-aggressive, and downright wrong things about trans people. Comparatively, Fnord's comments are pretty mild and I've never seen him misgender - use the wrong pronouns) for anyone.



Callista
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23 Jan 2014, 10:40 pm

Verdandi wrote:
I don't think surgeries are choosing their presentation. Most trans people choose their presentation well before they get surgery (if they ever do).
Yeah, I thought better of that after I hit "submit". Thus the edited post. Surgery would be more like changing your physical sex, which I guess is why they call it a "sex change".

Quote:
Technically speaking anyone can choose any gender presentation they like, it's just that people are often not likely to be happy with gender presentation that clashes with their sense of self.
Yep. With the exception of a few people who choose to masquerade as the opposite sex for non-personal reasons, like how women used to have to pretend to be men if they wanted to be soldiers.

Quote:
I'm not marking Fnord out as a singular case. A lot of people on this forum say negative, prejudiced, microaggressive, aggressive, passive-aggressive, and downright wrong things about trans people. Comparatively, Fnord's comments are pretty mild and I've never seen him misgender - use the wrong pronouns) for anyone.
Prejudice, yeah. Even people who aren't hateful by nature will, if they grow up in a biased society, become so saturated by that culture that the traces of it will be all over their behavior and they probably won't have a clue.

I really prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt and teach them, instead of getting mad right away. People who have just kind of passively absorbed that stuff often really just need to learn a bit more.

Er, and for the record, if I misgender somebody, it's probably because I've forgotten which gender they are. :oops:


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