questioning my gender: not sure what gender i want to be

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wozeree
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23 Jan 2014, 10:43 pm

Verdandi wrote:
I don't think surgeries are choosing their presentation. Most trans people choose their presentation well before they get surgery (if they ever do).

Technically speaking anyone can choose any gender presentation they like, it's just that people are often not likely to be happy with gender presentation that clashes with their sense of self.

The thing about Fnord's post is, though, that I've seen him make microaggressive and negative comments about trans people in other threads, so I suspect the possibility that he might be questioning the validity of being trans and/or possibly having a nonbinary gender than strictly questioning whether anyone can choose their gender. I could be wrong of course.

I'm not marking Fnord out as a singular case. A lot of people on this forum say negative, prejudiced, microaggressive, aggressive, passive-aggressive, and downright wrong things about trans people. Comparatively, Fnord's comments are pretty mild and I've never seen him misgender - use the wrong pronouns) for anyone.


Is it really bad to use the wrong gender for someone? For me it's really hard to keep everyone straight (no pun intended). I just figured out a few days ago that (Or I should say realized from what he was writing) that Cockney Rebel is a woman who feels herself to be a man. I thought she/he was a man and now I'm STILL not sure if I refer to him as male or female, but I think I call him him. By the way, Cockney Rebel, I always enjoy your posts, just was confused about this.

I'm sure he's not the only one that I am confused about. But that's not because I think they are weird or anything. Believe me, with my sex issues, I can't imagine what you'd have to do for me to think you are weird.

There should be a chart somewhere!



Callista
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23 Jan 2014, 10:48 pm

If you're not sure about which pronouns somebody wants, just ask them. On WP you can check gender in their profile. Or use "they" as a neutral pronoun.

Using the wrong pronoun is only offensive if you know what pronoun they want you to use, and you deliberately use the other one as a way of telling them, "You're wrong about yourself. You are who I see you as, not who you see yourself to be." It's like trying to overwrite their identity with your idea of what you think their identity is. Needless to say, if someone thinks you are deliberately doing this, they will be pretty pissed off.

But just messing up pronouns by mistake is--well, a mistake. Something you fix with, "oops, sorry, I messed up," and make a mental note of the right one to use for next time.


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Verdandi
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24 Jan 2014, 12:37 am

wozeree wrote:
Is it really bad to use the wrong gender for someone? For me it's really hard to keep everyone straight (no pun intended). I just figured out a few days ago that (Or I should say realized from what he was writing) that Cockney Rebel is a woman who feels herself to be a man. I thought she/he was a man and now I'm STILL not sure if I refer to him as male or female, but I think I call him him. By the way, Cockney Rebel, I always enjoy your posts, just was confused about this.

I'm sure he's not the only one that I am confused about. But that's not because I think they are weird or anything. Believe me, with my sex issues, I can't imagine what you'd have to do for me to think you are weird.

There should be a chart somewhere!


It's rude, generally.

CockneyRebel has "male" down for gender I so assume he/his pronouns - or as Callista said, just ask.

But basically this is the case:

Callista wrote:
Using the wrong pronoun is only offensive if you know what pronoun they want you to use, and you deliberately use the other one as a way of telling them, "You're wrong about yourself. You are who I see you as, not who you see yourself to be." It's like trying to overwrite their identity with your idea of what you think their identity is. Needless to say, if someone thinks you are deliberately doing this, they will be pretty pissed off.

But just messing up pronouns by mistake is--well, a mistake. Something you fix with, "oops, sorry, I messed up," and make a mental note of the right one to use for next time.



wozeree
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24 Jan 2014, 1:51 am

Probably better to just never mention anybody else! Most of the time I wouldn't anyway, only have a couple of times so far.



OliveOilMom
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24 Jan 2014, 3:43 am

I don't know what to tell you. I'm very girly about a lot of things, but I'm also very much a guy when it you get to the core of things. The way I think of things is like a guy, the way I look at options, my preferances (except sexually) are all like a guys would be. That is why I have got along best with friends who are guys. Maybe you are just a tomboy and maybe you are, like me, best suited to fill your role in the world as somebody who looks like a harmless lady but is in fact so very different on the inside.

There is nothing wrong with that.

I may completely refuse to leave my house without foundation and eyebrows and lipstick and mascara on, but whe I do leave, I may be going out to rain hell on somebody from a form they least expect it in.

So, that tells you there, that the package is not always significant to the gift inside it.


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OliveOilMom
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24 Jan 2014, 3:57 am

Verdandi wrote:
wozeree wrote:
Is it really bad to use the wrong gender for someone? For me it's really hard to keep everyone straight (no pun intended). I just figured out a few days ago that (Or I should say realized from what he was writing) that Cockney Rebel is a woman who feels herself to be a man. I thought she/he was a man and now I'm STILL not sure if I refer to him as male or female, but I think I call him him. By the way, Cockney Rebel, I always enjoy your posts, just was confused about this.

I'm sure he's not the only one that I am confused about. But that's not because I think they are weird or anything. Believe me, with my sex issues, I can't imagine what you'd have to do for me to think you are weird.

There should be a chart somewhere!


It's rude, generally.

CockneyRebel has "male" down for gender I so assume he/his pronouns - or as Callista said, just ask.

But basically this is the case:

Callista wrote:
Using the wrong pronoun is only offensive if you know what pronoun they want you to use, and you deliberately use the other one as a way of telling them, "You're wrong about yourself. You are who I see you as, not who you see yourself to be." It's like trying to overwrite their identity with your idea of what you think their identity is. Needless to say, if someone thinks you are deliberately doing this, they will be pretty pissed off.

But just messing up pronouns by mistake is--well, a mistake. Something you fix with, "oops, sorry, I messed up," and make a mental note of the right one to use for next time.


Messing up pronouns in a gender wrong person will cause them to be upset and it's something you shouldn't do. My daughter has a friend who was born a girl. She is now, to everyone but the people at her house, a boy. So that causes confusion. At school she's a girl and has one name, but out of school she's a boy and has another. Her mother is NOT supportive. In face, her mother is religiously against gay people. I told her our door is open any time she needs to come here, and she will when she comes out to her mother. Her mother is like that. I also told her that I would be glad to be the mother that her mother cant be. I'll support him, I'll do whatever I can for him. And I'll be very sure to use the right pronouns. I use the other ones in this paragraph for a reason. Until recently the pronoun thing wasnt a big deal. He bought a binder (just let me say DD's there to bind) he bought boys clothes, everything. He does not want hormones or the surgery, just to be accepted as who he is. He told his friends. Who have known him for ten years. Since they were in beauty pageants together. So, that's sort of hard to deal with the switch of pronouns and all with. He's NOT Candy Darling. If you would put him at any of them at the time, it would be Jackie Curtis. But going in the other direction. Honestly, if that child were to be put in normal church clothes for a child that age, you would think he was a female impersonator. That is a boy born in the wrong body, that's all. So please, use the correct pronouns. If you mess up, it happens, apologize. But once you are asked to, that's a huge thing for the person asking. Please respect their wishes. He's my daughters best friend, there are still girly sleepovers, but without the makeup and all, it's all internet focused crap and stuff about the Vampire Diaries. But still. My daughter says she refuses to call him a he untill he stops borrowning tampons. I sort of get that. But she doesn't get it's a different thing. It's wierd that I get something vague like that that an NT wouldn't.


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Warsie
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24 Jan 2014, 4:10 am

Until I dealt with the 'in order to be a REAL MAN, you have to do x' thing I had no real problems with gender identity. My grandfather did not consider me deviant enough to say anything, so I was male enough and ok with that. Now, after dealing with that 'to be a man yo must do x' s**t sure i can identify as 'genderqueer' if need be just to piss off anyone who pulls that on me (actually i would say 'transgender' for extra butthurt)


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XFilesGeek
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24 Jan 2014, 9:52 am

Come be genderqueer.

It's less exhausting and we get a 5% discount at participating Taco Bell restaurants.


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Callista
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25 Jan 2014, 10:52 pm

Yeah, but asexuals still bake the best cake.


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